Media What's the best Metal Gear game? (May Contain Spoilers!!)

[pturtle]

I voted for Portable Ops. So many fond memories of bundling unconscious women into unmarked vans

Seriously though, I loved that game. No-nonsense story, solid character writing, Ashley Wood cutscenes, surprisingly deep gameplay and much more content than a PSP game had any rights to have. Also the multiplayer was great.

Funny how Kojima basically disowned it but has liberally stolen ideas from it - half-assedly at that - for his last two games...

The whole recruiting comrades was Kojima’s idea, and the game was built around that idea actually.

 

[Dylan]

Source?

 

[pturtle]

Google it

Pretty sure everyone knew about this since MGS4, the concept of the story and design are all his, he couldn’t work on the game because he was still working on MGS4, this doesn’t take anything away from the team that executed everything of course.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

The whole recruiting comrades was Kojima’s idea, and the game was built around that idea actually.

Might have been his idea, but the Portable Ops implementation (handled by other people) was generally better than any of the subsequent games that used it. The only thing I can think of that Kojima brought to the table was the Fulton, and honestly as funny as it is watching people get hoiked off by helicopter dangling from a helium balloon it does take any skill beyond knocking someone unconscious out of the equation.

We do seem to love bashing Kojima around here, don't we? Honestly I still think he's a fantastic game designer and writer, but others have done it better when the toy chest was opened to them. Especially Platinum Games. That said, I can't hold it against him being burnt out on Metal Gear, he's clearly wanted to do other things for a long time.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Might have been his idea, but the Portable Ops implementation (handled by other people) was generally better than any of the subsequent games that used it. The only thing I can think of that Kojima brought to the table was the Fulton, and honestly as funny as it is watching people get hoiked off by helicopter dangling from a helium balloon it does take any skill beyond knocking someone unconscious out of the equation.

We do seem to love bashing Kojima around here, don't we? Honestly I still think he's a fantastic game designer and writer, but others have done it better when the toy chest was opened to them. Especially Platinum Games. That said, I can't hold it against him being burnt out on Metal Gear, he's clearly wanted to do other things for a long time.

Well, I think it's well deserved. Outside of V in particular, you see next to none around the net... but I think V woke a lot of people up to his stumbling. This one definitely polarized the community.

I still don't believe that Konami was 100% behind his ousting from the company. I'm thinking it was a mutual thing.

 

[Dylan]

Google it

Pretty sure everyone knew about this since MGS4, the concept of the story and design are all his, he couldn’t work on the game because he was still working on MGS4, this doesn’t take anything away from the team that executed everything of course.

I did and I don't see that anywhere. Wasn't he just a producer on PO? I would imagine that would work like Rising did and he's pretty much just putting his name and seal of approval on it.

I could be wrong if there was a place or interview out there that states othereise but from where I'm standing the platform of modern MGS games isn't based on a Kojima idea.

 

[FSLAR]

Well, I think it's well deserved. Outside of V in particular, you see next to none around the net... but I think V woke a lot of people up to his stumbling. This one definitely polarized the community.

I still don't believe that Konami was 100% behind his ousting from the company. I'm thinking it was a mutual thing.

I've always questioned Kojima from the beginning, dude is just so weird compared to other Japanese developers, like Shinji Mikami, Hideki Kamiya, Shigeru Miyamoto, and Mashahiro Sakurai. Oh yeah, they are weird in their own rights, but the stuff Kojima did, the thought process, what the hell? He's brilliant at times, but at the same time, he did so much bizarre ****, and it showed with some sequences imo, it came full front in MGS4, personally.

With MGS V and Kojima, I think it goes both ways. Some people are now aware, some people are in denial.

 

[Solidus]

You've got a point. Kojima's problem is that he has let his freak out way too much over the year. It's like he needed to express his deep-laden desires artistically with awkward scenes in MGS (Johnny sheeting his pants, a monkey with silver undies, date with Kaz, a girl with rape stockings, the list goes on). Then there's the stuff he does on Twitter.

 

[izunadrop!]

MGS2! The theme music is my ringtone! The story and game play is pure awesomeness!


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[Jameson Rook]

MGS2! The theme music is my ringtone! The story and game play is pure awesomeness!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

u crazy. mgs2 worst one. sucks. rayden gay boy.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

Well, I think it's well deserved. Outside of V in particular, you see next to none around the net... but I think V woke a lot of people up to his stumbling. This one definitely polarized the community.

I still don't believe that Konami was 100% behind his ousting from the company. I'm thinking it was a mutual thing.

Can't really agree with that. Without him there'd be no Metal Gear, and nitpicking aside he's been directly and indirectly responsible for about a dozen amazing games - plus all the incredible stuff he made that never really escaped from Japan like Snatcher, Policenauts, Boktai, etc. Oh, and Zone of the Enders too.

I've always questioned Kojima from the beginning, dude is just so weird compared to other Japanese developers, like Shinji Mikami, Hideki Kamiya, Shigeru Miyamoto, and Mashahiro Sakurai. Oh yeah, they are weird in their own rights, but the stuff Kojima did, the thought process, what the hell? He's brilliant at times, but at the same time, he did so much bizarre ****, and it showed with some sequences imo, it came full front in MGS4, personally.

With MGS V and Kojima, I think it goes both ways. Some people are now aware, some people are in denial.

You've got a point. Kojima's problem is that he has let his freak out way too much over the year. It's like he needed to express his deep-laden desires artistically with awkward scenes in MGS (Johnny sheeting his pants, a monkey with silver undies, date with Kaz, a girl with rape stockings, the list goes on). Then there's the stuff he does on Twitter.

MGSV might not have lived up to most of our expectations, but it's still a pretty fantastic game in its own right. As to Kojima's 'weirdness' - that's always what's made the games for me. I love how he juggles surreality and silliness with fairly serious storylines and characters. That ability to turn the tone on a dime - at least to me - has always made the serious, emotional parts of the games more effective. You can't have effective tragedy without a little comedy to balance things out, and vice-versa.

 

[FSLAR]

You've got a point. Kojima's problem is that he has let his freak out way too much over the year. It's like he needed to express his deep-laden desires artistically with awkward scenes in MGS (Johnny sheeting his pants, a monkey with silver undies, date with Kaz, a girl with rape stockings, the list goes on). Then there's the stuff he does on Twitter.

His twitter is just...something else, there's Kojima weirdness, and then his twitter but yeah, over the past year especially, it just got too bizarre, and it probably did make Konami look bad actually. There's probably a few tweets about them pre-firing for all we know. The weirdness in MGS wasn't too bad, it was funny...but after 3, it just got too weird and at times, it wasn't amusing or anything. MGS1 had silliness like Johnny, and Mantis, MGS 2 I don't think had anything outside of Vamp, MGS 3 was intentionally silly and had fun with itself. But in MGS4...god, what happened? Then PW's AIs that sang. MGR then mocked everything odd in this series (pointing out the problems on a serious note). I can't quite comment on V till I've played it though.

Can't really agree with that. Without him there'd be no Metal Gear, and nitpicking aside he's been directly and indirectly responsible for about a dozen amazing games - plus all the incredible stuff he made that never really escaped from Japan like Snatcher, Policenauts, Boktai, etc. Oh, and Zone of the Enders too.





MGSV might not have lived up to most of our expectations, but it's still a pretty fantastic game in its own right. As to Kojima's 'weirdness' - that's always what's made the games for me. I love how he juggles surreality and silliness with fairly serious storylines and characters. That ability to turn the tone on a dime - at least to me - has always made the serious, emotional parts of the games more effective. You can't have effective tragedy without a little comedy to balance things out, and vice-versa.

I mean, he did make some great stuff, no lying about that. But people have acted like he's flawless, and he's not. Everyone questions those developers I mentioned at times, though they give them respect they deserve as well. I could probably rant about them, but going on about Kojima, jeeze, and then there's the dude-bros. He's like king of the world. I respect him, but I hate how he is at times, and I think it's well deserved that people are finally aware of his question-ability.


After 3, I think the weirdness just got too weird and didn't really have the same charm the older games had, that's my problem. Nothing...really added up about said weirdness. Why was it there, is what I questioned. I mentioned Mantis, and those 4th wall jokes did pan out in the end with his backstory.

u crazeh. em gees 2 worst one. sux. rayden gai boi.

fixed.

 

[Kiva]

Kojima is the worst part about the Metal Gear Franchise. The character design and art, soundtracks, voice acting, game engines ect is everybody but him. But then you get to the uncomfortable Paz stuff, Otacon and his step mom. Snake pulling one off in a locker. Every woman in the franchise pretty much being a slut and a double crosser. Thats things that he can be credited for.

 

[FSLAR]

Kojima is the worst part about the Metal Gear Franchise. The character design and art, soundtracks, voice acting, game engines ect is everybody but him. But then you get to the uncomfortable Paz stuff, Otacon and his step mom. Snake pulling one off in a locker. Every woman in the franchise pretty much being a slut and a double crosser. Thats things that he can be credited for.

There's also how he tried to implement his 'personal thoughts/trials' like making Snake a grumpy old man to represent him vs the younger generation, among other things. I think as Ryan has said, Kojima has run out of ideas post-3.

And on Otacon and his step mom, good point. That **** still makes me cringe about Huey.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

Kojima is the worst part about the Metal Gear Franchise. The character design and art, soundtracks, voice acting, game engines ect is everybody but him. But then you get to the uncomfortable Paz stuff, Otacon and his step mom. Snake pulling one off in a locker. Every woman in the franchise pretty much being a slut and a double crosser. Thats things that he can be credited for.

Going to have to strongly disagree with that. That's like saying Terminator 1 and 2 are great because of everybody involved except James Cameron. I'd also contest the point about female characters, the MGS series has some of the best in videogames in terms of writing and characterisation.

There's also how he tried to implement his 'personal thoughts/trials' like making Snake a grumpy old man to represent him vs the younger generation, among other things. I think as Ryan has said, Kojima has run out of ideas post-3.

And on Otacon and his step mom, good point. That **** still makes me cringe about Huey.

 

[pturtle]

Might have been his idea, but the Portable Ops implementation (handled by other people) was generally better than any of the subsequent games that used it. The only thing I can think of that Kojima brought to the table was the Fulton, and honestly as funny as it is watching people get hoiked off by helicopter dangling from a helium balloon it does take any skill beyond knocking someone unconscious out of the equation.

We do seem to love bashing Kojima around here, don't we? Honestly I still think he's a fantastic game designer and writer, but others have done it better when the toy chest was opened to them. Especially Platinum Games. That said, I can't hold it against him being burnt out on Metal Gear, he's clearly wanted to do other things for a long time.

I’ll have to agree to disagree, in my opinion Rising is a good hack and slash game with some top notch boss battles but thats really it for me. At its core, its a hack and slash game, and while its a fun one, its not really deep, its no DMC 3, Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden, the story is so bad that we all pretend its not canon, even though it is, and its extremely short, compare that to something like MGSV which is arguably the best stealth game of all time, it has flaws sure, but I can’t think of a stealth game that is as layered as MGSV. Its the new MGSV made by Kojima, so I don’t expect it to get any love here of course but I honestly think that game gets so much love here because Kojima barely had anything to do with it. It cool to say its great. Thats just my opinion though, don’t want to offend anyone that really does think MGSR is an amazing game.

Regarding Kojima, I definitely think he’s one of the greatest minds in gaming. He has flaws like everyone, but I have to respect someone who tries something new and takes risks. I don’t care about his twitter, or what the guy does with his personal life, but judging him just on his games, and what he has done in the industry, I think he deserves all the praise he gets. What other person in gaming drops a playable teaser out of nowhere like P.T.? Or all the games he plays to make gamers apart of the experience as much as possible. The whole Joakim Mogren thing and P.T. had the internet going crazy.

Also, you don’t have to fulton enemies if you want to make the game difficult, but in MGSV we’re building our army, it would be extremely tedious if we had we didn’t have the fulton device, or wormhole.

I did and I don't see that anywhere. Wasn't he just a producer on PO? I would imagine that would work like Rising did and he's pretty much just putting his name and seal of approval on it.

I could be wrong if there was a place or interview out there that states othereise but from where I'm standing the platform of modern MGS games isn't based on a Kojima idea.

It’s been almost 6 years since i read those interviews, so it’ll be a hassle to find all those interviews but the idea was definitely his, and the entire games structure was built on that idea. He also wrote a short outline for the story for his team. Again, that doesn’t take anything away from what they did, but giving him zero credit for a game built on his ideas is a bit unfair.

Rising was completely different, it has no real bearing at all on the story or the series.

 

[FSLAR]

Rising's story was meant to be over the top and just make fun of everything in the series. Seriously, that thing with Armstrong in the end, it's the story in a nutshell. Platinum Games stories aren't that great though to be honest, with the story in Bayonetta varying in quality at times. Game is fun though, real fun, but I prefer DMC 3 and GoW over it.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

I’ll have to agree to disagree, in my opinion Rising is a good hack and slash game with some top notch boss battles but thats really it for me. At its core, its a hack and slash game, and while its a fun one, its not really deep, its no DMC 3, Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden, the story is so bad that we all pretend its not canon, even though it is, and its extremely short, compare that to something like MGSV which is arguably the best stealth game of all time, it has flaws sure, but I can’t think of a stealth game that is as layered as MGSV. Its the new MGSV made by Kojima, so I don’t expect it to get any love here of course but I honestly think that game gets so much love here because Kojima barely had anything to do with it. It cool to say its great. Thats just my opinion though, don’t want to offend anyone that really does think MGSR is an amazing game.

Also, you don’t have to fulton enemies if you want to make the game difficult, but in MGSV we’re building our army, it would be extremely tedious if we had we didn’t have the fulton device, or wormhole.

Don't get me wrong, I think MGS as a whole stands head-and-shoulders above just about any other series of games. There's so much going on in them, from goofy offbeat humour all the way up to fourth-wall-breaking metanarratives and incredible integration and examination of all kinds of philosophical, psychological and sociological constructs, in every one of Kojima's games. They are seriously intelligent entertainment if you're willing to closely analyse them and consider the social and cultural context that created them (i.e. not dismiss things as 'weird' and 'uncomfortable' just because they were tailored for a Japanese audience) that have, in my opinion, consistently redefined what videogames as a storytelling medium are and what they're capable of.

For the record though, I do love Rising and thought it was an incredible game - not least of which because it smartly functioned as a very self-aware parody of the series as a whole.

 

[pturtle]

Rising's story was meant to be over the top and just make fun of everything in the series. Seriously, that thing with Armstrong in the end, it's the story in a nutshell. Platinum Games stories aren't that great though to be honest, with the story in Bayonetta varying in quality at times. Game is fun though, real fun, but I prefer DMC 3 and GoW over it.

I know that, but nevertheless the story is downright terrible, and it is canon, the gameplay is fun, but not deep at all, and the game is ridiculously short. To me it made Raiden interesting again, and his design was awesome, but everything else was pretty much meh to me.

Don't get me wrong, I think MGS as a whole stands head-and-shoulders above just about any other series of games. There's so much going on in them, from goofy offbeat humour all the way up to fourth-wall-breaking metanarratives and incredible integration and examination of all kinds of philosophical, psychological and sociological constructs, in every one of Kojima's games. They are seriously intelligent entertainment if you're willing to closely analyse them and consider the social and cultural context that created them (i.e. not dismiss things as 'weird' and 'uncomfortable' just because they were tailored for a Japanese audience) that have, in my opinion, consistently redefined what videogames as a storytelling medium are and what they're capable of.

For the record though, I do love Rising and thought it was an incredible game - not least of which because it smartly functioned as a very self-aware parody of the series as a whole.

I agree, and I did really like Rising myself, I didn’t have high expectations for it when it was coming out and thats probably why I enjoyed it so much.

Not one of the games in the series has been bad, and thats pretty amazing for a series thats been around since 87.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

I know that, but nevertheless the story is downright terrible, and it is canon, the gameplay is fun, but not deep at all, and the game is ridiculously short. To me it made Raiden interesting again, and his design was awesome, but everything else was pretty much meh to me.

What about Jetstream Sam, Bladewolf and Sundowner? I thought they were all pretty fantastic. Plus the support crew, especially Herr Doktor.

I agree, and I did really like Rising myself, I didn’t have high expectations for it when it was coming out and thats probably why I enjoyed it so much.

Not one of the games in the series has been bad, and thats pretty amazing for a series thats been around since 87.

This. It's not a matter of bad games, it's a matter of varying levels of brilliant games.