Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[JCFETT]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

But this movie is rife with subplots and storylines that go nowhere. From Snoke to the mission to the casino planet to Poe's "mutiny", all useless and pointless.

I think they were just trying to take you on a rollercoaster adventure. You do walk out of there like you've traveled the galaxy. Maybe they didn't unravel some larger stories, but it definitely put some miles on your odometer.

 

[ehinsdale]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Makes me wonder what will happen in the next movie. I hope there is another villain that comes to the forefront.

 

[DarkShadow]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Thanks for sharing man. So Luke's death doesn't sound very dramatic. lol You would think the death of one of the greatest hero's in movie history would go out in a better way.

It was actually a beautiful death. He even said to Kylo, something along the lines of: ''when you strike me down, I will haunt you, just like Han already haunts you.'' Which makes me think that Luke uses his own death to cripple Kylo with even more guilt, hoping that that will help him get back to the light?

 

[TaliBane]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Because you didn't pay attention. Early during the movie, when Rey first contacts Kylo through the Force, he is surprised and tells her the effort will kill her if she keeps it up. She is tremendously powerful in the Force through and their interactions are little more than talking, so she manages. Luke projected himself for a lot longer, did some fighting (dodging at least a few times), and he is far from being nearly as young or as powerful (potentially at least) as Rey.

The exertion pushed Luke to the brink of death, and the fact that he was finally at peace over what happened allowed him to let go and become one with the Force.

You didn't pay attention lol) - because none of that actually answers my question. Why couldn't Vader have projected himself down to Hoth if this was an available power? Even if it meant his death, why wouldn't Yoda have virtually accompanied Luke to face Vader in ESB, or even followed without Luke knowing to pop up and help him?

And Rey is "tremendously powerful in the force"? How much time has passed since Rey was playing with the X-Wing helmet and the end of TLJ? Maybe a month? Or two? And now she's more powerful than the known universe? There's lots of talk about training, but not much actual training.

And now she's like a 10+ on the Force Meter? And Vader was a 9.1 and Luke was a 8.7 but managed through meditation to ascend to a 9.3? It all sounds pretty lame, vague, PT, Mary Sue and retconned to me.

 

[juicemaster310]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

It was actually a beautiful death. He even said to Kylo, something along the lines of: ''when you strike me down, I will haunt you, just like Han already haunts you.'' Which makes me think that Luke uses his own death to cripple Kylo with even more guilt, hoping that that will help him get back to the light?

Really? Cant wait to see this man. My only concern now what the heck are they going to do with Episode 9? If Kylo is Vader and Sidious all in one, his defeat won't be as dramatic since he already got his butt kicked by a scavenger with no Jedi training. When Luke defeated Vader in ROTJ, you felt a sense of relief and accomplishment. You so something that you've never seen before, which is Vader finally going down in defeat.

 

[cmiller99]

I saw this last night.

Ok, so this movie isn’t better than Empire. I did like it better than TFA though to some extent. TFA, where for me the Rathtar sequence was the only really eyebrow-raising scene, is more consistent than this movie, despite its close aping of the original Star Wars. I was initially very concerned when I read the opening crawl for TLJ because it sounds EXACTLY like Empire Strikes Back (The First Order reigns, Resistance on the run etc etc), but the rest of the movie does not at all copy the ESB story beats, though there is some visual mimicry of Hoth on the salt planet.

Not being as consistent as TFA, this movie reached higher peaks at certain points and it’s certainly more original than TFA. It also has a few really stupid things in it.

Spoiler:

The Leia Spacewalk scene seriously competes for the most unintentionally funny scene in a Star Wars movie - it is really silly. For a brief moment I thought I was having a bad dream. It was particularly frustrating because the manner in which they seemed to have killed Leia was actually pretty good. Ironically, Leia is now the only surviving character of the original three OT heroes.

Snoke is kinda wasted in that it’s made clear that he’s very powerful and very evil, but his death is played for laughs (and it is actually quite funny, it’s very unceremonious. Kylo stabs him in half with a lightsaber sitting next to Snoke on the arm of his chair).

Laura Dern’s character sacrifices herself in a manner that is very visually spectacular - certainly one of the highlights.

Yoda’s appearance is fun - the dialogue is quite good for his scene. However the CGI recreation of the ESB puppet is not very good looking. The audience I was in laughed when they first saw him, in disbelief I think. They still can’t get Yoda’s look right.

The casino planet subplot kinda doesn’t go anywhere really - it’s fun enough and there’s a nice chase sequence but it doesn’t feel super integral.

Poe gets quite a bit more to do in this film. The characters introduced TFA continue successfully here IMO. The new additions to the cast are also good. Rose is good, Benicio is sleazy as hell and a good dose of reality.

Now for Captain Phasma. She’s doubled her screen time in this movie - yes, she’s in it for three minutes this time instead of ninety seconds. Woohoo.

Kylo really well done, and his fight alongside Rey with Snoke’s guards is a highlight of the film. Hux is more interesting than last time I think, but he’s still just a stooge.

Porgs are just there for a few visual jokes really. They’re not insufferable, they don’t distract from the story too much. It must be said that this movie has a LOT of jokes in it. TFA was already jokier than the OT movies but this steps it up another level. It’s good to have some levity I think, but this is at unprecedented levels. I’m kinda ok with it though.

Luke is probably the most interesting character in the movie. Rey’s still a good protagonist, but there’s not much unexpected revealed about her, apart from her parentage (which is thankfully ****-all, a bunch of scummy traders who abandoned her). Luke has many more twists and turns.

His force teleport scene with Kylo at the end is also very good IMO, but I’m not sure how much of a surprise/twist it was supposed to be that he wasn’t actually there. I instantly noticed that his hair and beard were a lot darker, more like how they appeared in the flashbacks to the destruction of his temple - I assume that’s how Kylo and Leia (there is a reunion scene) remember him and therefore that’s how they see him.

As for his death, that will be divisive. I actually quite liked it, and while it may seem stupid that he’d just suddenly die sitting on his rock (which is how the spoilers I’ve read in this thread make it seem) it does happen in a very Ben Kenobi-esque manner AND it it makes a lot of sense for being the end of his character arc. So I think this is one of those cases where it’s better in context - particularly because as he dies, he’s looking out at a twin sunset.

Overall I enjoyed it but I’m still not quite sure exactly how much I enjoyed it. It’s good but not great, and I’m not surprised it seems to be so divisive thus far.

 

[Runnen]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

You didn't pay attention lol) - because none of that actually answers my question. Why couldn't Vader have projected himself down to Hoth if this was an available power? Even if it meant his death, why wouldn't Yoda have virtually accompanied Luke to face Vader in ESB, or even followed without Luke knowing to pop up and help him?

And Rey is "tremendously powerful in the force"? How much time has passed since Rey was playing with the X-Wing helmet and the end of TLJ? Maybe a month? Or two? And now she's more powerful than the known universe? There's lots of talk about training, but not much actual training.

And now she's like a 10+ on the Force Meter? And Vader was a 9.1 and Luke was a 8.7 but managed through meditation to ascend to a 9.3? It all sounds pretty lame, vague, PT, Mary Sue and retconned to me.

Vader wouldn't have projected himself because he likes to fight, projecting doesn't allow you to fight for real. I don't really see the point of discussing why characters didn't use powers that just now got written into the story in movies that happened decades ago, but even in-universe, this is clearly a power meant for subterfurge and subtlety, things Sith are not known for. Sith enjoy carnage, slaughter, Vader is a blood knight. He was always first to enter the battlefield on various occasions in the original trilogy.

Are you only going to allow powers in the foreseeable future of Star Wars movies that we've seen before? That sounds like a good way to retread endlessly on a beaten path, which is what many criticized TFA for already. New abilities or at least new visuals to show existing abilities is a good thing.

We know for a fact Rey is hugely powerful because Luke says so in this very movie you didn't pay enough attention to. He says the only other time he saw such raw power it was Kylo Ren, whom we also know is hugely powerful thanks to both Luke AND Snoke saying so. The whole point of both characters is that they're not only a changing of the old guard but also taking Force abilities beyond anything seen previously in a thousand generations.

Just because it goes against the head canon of many doesn't make it any less true : Rey is very powerful in the Force.

Note that I'm not saying Rey is a master of the Force, she is very powerful but she is still nearly untrained. Kylo also never finished his own training. Their potential is "raw" as was said numerous times in this movie.

You're going to find your own reasons to dislike this movie as your mind is already set. And it has plenty to criticize, it's not anywhere close to perfect. You can criticize the halt to pacing that is the casino planet, the uselessless of the Finn/Rose subplot and more. But focusing so much on something that is so explainable and actually makes sense in the context of the movie is just funny from the outside.

 

[SithThundercracker]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

I think the whole jedi powers discussion is a bit pointless, giving that characters in different movies behave and/or can feel each other according to plot needs.

Anyway this movie is quite a mess. Some things I liked were Kylo Ren, the Porgs, some Rey, some Poe, space battles maybe.
What I didn't like AT ALL were Leia flight in space, Guardians of the Galaxy comedy stuff out of SW context (Poe/Hux communication, Luke dropping the saber, etc..) and the whole Finn/girl storyline subplot, that was irrelevant and horribly PTesque in the Casino Planet.
Disappointed about not knowing who is Snoke, who were Kylo's companions (and why/how the destroyed the Academy in minutes) and especially Rey's parents stuff (still hoping was a lie from Kylo).
Not in love with BB-8 superpowers (PT R2 style) either or the same plot (let's gain time until we are able to fly) recycled thrice in a too-long movie.
It just seems that none of the question from EP7 were answered because the new director just wanted a different story...killing that epic ending moment (camera and soundtrack) having Luke to drop the saber was just a kick in the face.

 

[juicemaster310]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

I think the whole jedi powers discussion is a bit pointless, giving that characters in different movies behave and/or can feel each other according to plot needs.

Anyway this movie is quite a mess. Some things I liked were Kylo Ren, the Porgs, some Rey, some Poe, space battles maybe.
What I didn't like AT ALL were Leia flight in space, Guardians of the Galaxy comedy stuff out of SW context (Poe/Hux communication, Luke dropping the saber, etc..) and the whole Finn/girl storyline subplot, that was irrelevant and horribly PTesque in the Casino Planet.
Disappointed about not knowing who is Snoke, who were Kylo's companions (and why/how the destroyed the Academy in minutes) and especially Rey's parents stuff (still hoping was a lie from Kylo).
Not in love with BB-8 superpowers (PT R2 style) either or the same plot (let's gain time until we are able to fly) recycled thrice in a too-long movie.
It just seems that none of the question from EP7 were answered because the new director just wanted a different story...killing that epic ending moment (camera and soundtrack) having Luke to drop the saber was just a kick in the face.

Yikes

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Phasma, along with Snoke, might well be the top 2 worst handled characters in the whole saga.

Boba Fett from "Jedi" is feeling pretty good right now.

 

[SithThundercracker]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

I don't think Snoke was misused IF they give him some backstory in the next installment. I like him being betrayed by Kylo (for bad reasons, this time) for the story development but: who was Snoke? how the hell he became Supreme Leader? Why he was so powerful? Was he a Sith (or better, who trained him)? Why/how did he originally corrupted Kylo? How can he so clearly read his mind? And so on...

 

[juicemaster310]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

I don't think Snoke was misused IF they give him some backstory in the next installment. I like him being betrayed by Kylo (for bad reasons, this time) for the story development but: who was Snoke? how the hell he became Supreme Leader? Why he was so powerful? Was he a Sith (or better, who trained him)? Why/how did he originally corrupted Kylo? How can he so clearly read his mind? And so on...

Some idiots online made a review on this movie , saying the Last Jedi big reveal, was Snoke being Anakin's father. And I believed it. LOL

 

[DarkShadow]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Really? Cant wait to see this man. My only concern now what the heck are they going to do with Episode 9? If Kylo is Vader and Sidious all in one, his defeat won't be as dramatic since he already got his butt kicked by a scavenger with no Jedi training. When Luke defeated Vader in ROTJ, you felt a sense of relief and accomplishment. You so something that you've never seen before, which is Vader finally going down in defeat.

There was a ton of sexual tension between Rey and Kylo. Seriously. Kylo basically killed Snoke for her, they fought together, they wanted to be together. It's just that Rey wanted it to be on the light side, where as Kylo wanted it to be on the dark side. So it will probably involve a romance, or a failed one. Sounds bad, but to be honest, Ridley and Driver do have great chemistry together on screen, which I already noticed at the interrogation scene in the Force Awakens. Their scenes where great in my opinion.

Beyond that? I'm starting to think that this trilogy might not be just a trilogy. I could see this story going beyond episode 9, into 10, and who knows, maybe even longer. Episode 8 finishes with the entirety of the resistance fitting inside the Millennium Falcon. So either they make a time jump to explain the sudden growth of the resistance, or we'll be getting more movies than just one to finish this story. I can't see how you can rebuild the resistance and defeat Kylo/first order in one movie.

 

[DarkShadow]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

I don't think Snoke was misused IF they give him some backstory in the next installment. I like him being betrayed by Kylo (for bad reasons, this time) for the story development but: who was Snoke? how the hell he became Supreme Leader? Why he was so powerful? Was he a Sith (or better, who trained him)? Why/how did he originally corrupted Kylo? How can he so clearly read his mind? And so on...

In all honesty, it took quite a few years after the OT to get the Vader/Palpatine back story. It's called the Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones and the Revenge of the Sith. We don't know a whole lot about Vader/Palpatine, just going from the OT. I think people tend to forget that.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

I don't think Snoke was misused IF they give him some backstory in the next installment. I like him being betrayed by Kylo (for bad reasons, this time) for the story development but: who was Snoke? how the hell he became Supreme Leader? Why he was so powerful? Was he a Sith (or better, who trained him)? Why/how did he originally corrupted Kylo? How can he so clearly read his mind? And so on...

They need fodder for books, dictionaries, games, cartoons, toys and other ancillary venues. We're all gonna have to go digging it up now.

Bet there's people out there that still think he's Plagueis, even though he just died.

 

[teemu]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

And now she's like a 10+ on the Force Meter? And Vader was a 9.1 and Luke was a 8.7 but managed through meditation to ascend to a 9.3? It all sounds pretty lame, vague, PT, Mary Sue and retconned to me.

Yep! The Mary Sue, Females rule Arc...but yeah,these new Starwars are lame and have completely crapped on our beloved OT characters.I would rather of them not including anybody from the OT, at all...

 

[TaliBane]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Vader wouldn't have projected himself because he likes to fight, projecting doesn't allow you to fight for real. I don't really see the point of discussing why characters didn't use powers that just now got written into the story in movies that happened decades ago, but even in-universe, this is clearly a power meant for subterfurge and subtlety, things Sith are not known for. Sith enjoy carnage, slaughter, Vader is a blood knight. He was always first to enter the battlefield on various occasions in the original trilogy.

Are you only going to allow powers in the foreseeable future of Star Wars movies that we've seen before? That sounds like a good way to retread endlessly on a beaten path, which is what many criticized TFA for already. New abilities or at least new visuals to show existing abilities is a good thing.

We know for a fact Rey is hugely powerful because Luke says so in this very movie you didn't pay enough attention to. He says the only other time he saw such raw power it was Kylo Ren, whom we also know is hugely powerful thanks to both Luke AND Snoke saying so. The whole point of both characters is that they're not only a changing of the old guard but also taking Force abilities beyond anything seen previously in a thousand generations.

Just because it goes against the head canon of many doesn't make it any less true : Rey is very powerful in the Force.

Note that I'm not saying Rey is a master of the Force, she is very powerful but she is still nearly untrained. Kylo also never finished his own training. Their potential is "raw" as was said numerous times in this movie.

You're going to find your own reasons to dislike this movie as your mind is already set. And it has plenty to criticize, it's not anywhere close to perfect. You can criticize the halt to pacing that is the casino planet, the uselessless of the Finn/Rose subplot and more. But focusing so much on something that is so explainable and actually makes sense in the context of the movie is just funny from the outside.

Eh, but that's really just fansplaining though. Which is a lot of fan subjectivity and interpretation disguised as "fact" - usually used to passionately defend a retcon in the latest "OMG - best SW film EVER" (which always for some reason is the one that was just released.)

What I mean is that the events of the classic trilogy contain THE highest emotional and physical stakes of any SW storyline - with THE most significant Jedi individuals - Vader, Luke, Yoda and Ben - in the mix. If that forcical-teleport-insky power existed, given the highest-of-high stakes that were in play, one of them would have used it.

I "allow" anything that doesn't contradict (or in some cases ruin in some way) what has gone before. It's like R2's rockets in the PT... if he had them long before the classic trilogy, then why didn't he use them during the classic trilogy? It's like the all-running, all-jumping K-2SO from RO... if robots could run, jump and fight like that, why do we never see a single robot that has even close to those abilities in the three films that "follow" RO (begin playing out the week following the events of RO)?

Phasma, along with Snoke, might well be the top 2 worst handled characters in the whole saga.

Gwen loved it even before she took the helmet off.

 

[SithThundercracker]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

In all honesty, it took quite a few years after the OT to get the Vader/Palpatine back story. It's called the Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones and the Revenge of the Sith. We don't know a whole lot about Vader/Palpatine, just going from the OT. I think people tend to forget that.

The problem is none of the relationship/backstory was mentioned for Vader/Palpatine in the OT (except that the Emperor was the Master and Vader must obey), but in Episode 7 you have people talking about Snoke corrupting Kylo, you have Rey's dreaming about the Academy destruction...and then in this movie they just don't care explaining. Also Snoke seems pretty old, so I think it's quite normal to wonder what the hell he was doing (giving that he is so powerful) during Palpatine reign.

 

[SithThundercracker]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

What I mean is that the events of the classic trilogy contain THE highest emotional and physical stakes of any SW storyline - with THE most significant Jedi individuals - Vader, Luke, Yoda and Ben - in the mix. If that forcical-teleport-insky power existed, given the highest-of-high stakes that were in play, one of them would have used it.

So,considering no retcon, why Vader is puzzledly looking for Ben's body inside the robe in ANH and than *magic* uses the same trick in ROTJ?

 

[Hydeous]

Yes, Monday night. I didn't have your enthusiasm for it unfortunately.

I do believe if you read the leaks beforehand they may not seem as bad as when you're not prepared. Maybe.

I didn’t read any of the leaks beforehand.


Also,

Spoiler:

whyd they have my boy Luke milking on some green milk monster boobies and do him dirty by slobbering the milk like that