Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Adolfo]

Well, I just got back from seeing this. I haven't read the bulk of posts here, but have gleaned some of the main critiques. My own thoughts:

I thought it was good overall. Flawed, yes. I would put it about on par with the Force Awakens, but for different reasons. Pros for me were the acting by some of the principals--Hamill, Driver, Ridley, Isaac--visuals were amazing, and the mood, score, set pieces, and cinematography were very well done/presented by and large. Storywise, I like that they took some risks. Force Awakens (and Rogue One) was so dang by the numbers that it was off-putting to me. Here, I would have done some things differently, but I applaud the willingness to not do the safest thing.

On the other hand, there were a number of issues with the story in my mind. A carryover from the prior film was that we still don't really know how the First Order achieved this level of power and influence, and now I'm confused as to how the rebellion is so small at the starting point in the film. These are such essential story elements that the film would have done well to better flesh this out, even with exposition on the order of the guy recognizing salt on the ground instead of snow.

Kylo Ren's arc was really odd to me. He was so conflicted, then seems resolved, but still oddly conflicted. . .they could do a better job letting us know where he's going. He is committed to Snoke, then he wants to scrap everything and rule the universe with Rey, then he immediately decides to only destroy the rebellion and Luke when she snubs him? Still whiny kid I guess overall.

Snoke was handled oddly. Everything they showed suggested he is all-powerful, Rey gets tossed around like she is a rag doll, but then Kylo who got schooled by Rey gets the best of Snoke. . . Leia allowing Laura Dern to stay behind was really weird. Leia is old as dirt. If someone in command is to stay behind, why not her, and let the younger guard stay on to fight into the future? But Leia is happy as a lark to jump on that escape pod and leave her second in command behind. Made me dislike her character quite a bit.

The anti-war mongering seemed a bit weird. Not sure where they were going fully. Really silly and simplistic to say that the rich are only arms manufacturers. There are no other thriving industries in the Star Wars-verse? Ending with broom kid was a weird way to foreshadow the next film. Are children going to come to the aid of the rebellion? Seems like the non-aligned groups who will inevitably rise up against the Order could have been better explored here. Who are they, what do they do, and why might they dislike the Order? All they all slaves working for the arms manufacturers?

Also, some characters I thought didn't work well. Del Toro's character's mannerisms were annoying, Fisher was incredibly wooden (though I don't blame the filmmakers for giving her the role that they did). Hux was treated like a comedic foil, but it didn't work that well IMO. Phasma seems that much more pathetic now, though they kept portraying her like a bad-ass in how she was shot. Chewy, R2, and 3PO serve no meaningful role.

Putting all that aside, I give it a 6.75/10. I enjoyed it. Most of these issues turned up on further reflection, and didn't distract me during the film too much. Luke's ending felt good. Not a movie I'll want to revisit anytime soon, but that's par for the course with Star Wars and Disney nowadays.

Was the volume on and did you wear your right prescription eyeglasses?...Did anyone sit next to you and hand you a envelope that has the letters K H E V on it and did you open it?...If You did a cocoon will be placed by your trailer out back...do not fall asleep like Zach did...got it?

 

[Spazz]

how do you guys feel about Rose sexually raping Fin and forcing herself on him? Will she claim rape in episode 9?

No, man. That's the best thing that ever happened to Finn. He can tell everyone that he's a victim of sexual misconduct. The rebels will declare him person of the year, and put him on the cover of Time Magazine for his accomplishment. Victimhood for the win!

 

[karamazov80]

Was the volume on and did you wear your right prescription eyeglasses?...Did anyone sit next to you and hand you a envelope that has the letters K H E V on it and did you open it?

No, not sure, yes, and of course.

 

[Darkseed]

Sum ***** this went straight to The Walking Dead where zombies are replaced by poor people. ****.....

 

[Spazz]

Sum ***** this went straight to The Walking Dead where zombies are replaced by poor people. ****.....

Poor people are zombies.

 

[aa909]

Disney will now overreact and the next SW movie will have NO FEMALES.

Begun the sausage wars has.

LOL!! that was good

 

[xipotec]

Yep. When the s@#$ hits the fan, you want to live a good 2 hour drive away from the nearest city, at least. Even then... it'll spread to the 'burbs when people realize property can't be defended by police. And all those left wing folks who don't want fire arms to be legal? They'll be singing a different tune when their safety is threatened. My grandparents lived through the great depression. They've told me stories... and this is going to make the great depression seem like a minor recession. It's going to get ugly. No one cares.

You should be more afraid of what your own military will be asked to do to quell the unrest....


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[Adolfo]

LOL!! that was good

Eunuchs vs girls with strap ons

 

[aa909]

Dude I just had lunch, this was unnecessary

 

[Spazz]

You should be more afraid of what your own military will be asked to do to quell the unrest....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, I'm well aware of what they'll do. I'm more concerned about what said military will look like. Will it be automated like the other jobs that humans no longer need to work? Not in 10 years, but likely within the next 15-20. Robocops, here we come. (Drones, more likely...)

 

[Khev]

Now what did you do with Khev give him back he is literally the only other person besides me and Zach that likes TLJ and I really don’t even like it so this thread needs him more than ever.

People hating on the movie is fine as it was undoubtedly divisive but all the fans have left the discussion so I have no one to chat with, lol.

Glad to see that JAWS came around on his initial AOTC > TLJ craziness. I think the one reviewer (Forbes I think) who compared TLJ to Iron Man 3 and Spectre made a very apt observation. I pretty much hated Spectre but can still recognize that in many ways it was still a very well made film. I just thought that Bond was once again a creepy loser and was put off by how lamely the bad guy was dealt with. And then with IM3 I thought that it was weak how Stark seemed to hide behind his remote controlled drone suits and that the finale just went one twist too far. But it had a very clever script, tight visuals, solid performances including Kingsley who was just insane.

I wouldn't say that I loved IM3 but there was still a lot to appreciate. And that's really where TLJ should be even for those who didn't like how the story panned out. It was good to great with regard to filmmaking on so many levels yet people are taking their personal biases on what they think should and should not be in SW or what Luke Skywalker should and shouldn't do and are just going off the deep end with it. Not all people who dislike the film are going that route obviously but it does seem to be the case for most of those who are the most vocal.

Take a film like AOTC where there were actually only a few short *minutes* of watchable entertainment out of the entire movie. The Clonetrooper designs, Gunships, and Natalie's white outfit. That's pretty much it. Every other scene was just embarrassingly painful. Actors with no charisma OR chemistry awkwardly trying to spout terrible dialogue in front of jarring 2D cartoon backgrounds. It was just horrible on so many levels and yet you've got people confidently claiming that TLJ was worse? Crazy.

But eh, to each their own. I loved both the story of TLJ and how the story was told so win/win for me. Other people apparently want to portray it as a meme-worthy disaster which is quite bizarre but who am I to judge.

 

[Adolfo]

People hating on the movie is fine as it was undoubtedly divisive but all the fans have left the discussion so I have no one to chat with, lol.

Glad to see that JAWS came around on his initial AOTC > TLJ craziness. I think the one reviewer (Forbes I think) who compared TLJ to Iron Man 3 and Spectre made a very apt observation. I pretty much hated Spectre but can still recognize that in many ways it was still a very well made film. I just thought that Bond was once again a creepy loser and was put off by how lamely the bad guy was dealt with. And then with IM3 I thought that it was weak how Stark seemed to hide behind his remote controlled drone suits and that the finale just went one twist too far. But it had a very clever script, tight visuals, solid performances including Kingsley who was just insane.

I wouldn't say that I loved IM3 but there was still a lot to appreciate. And that's really where TLJ should be even for those who didn't like how the story panned out. It was good to great with regard to filmmaking on so many levels yet people are taking their personal biases on what they think should and should not be in SW or what Luke Skywalker should and shouldn't do and are just going off the deep end with it. Not all people who dislike the film are going that route obviously but it does seem to be the case for most of those who are the most vocal.

Take a film like AOTC where there were actually only a few short *minutes* of watchable entertainment out of the entire movie. The Clonetrooper designs, Gunships, and Natalie's white outfit. That's pretty much it. Every other scene was just embarrassingly painful. Actors with no charisma OR chemistry awkwardly trying to spot terrible dialogue in front of jarring 2D cartoon backgrounds. It was just horrible on so many levels and yet you've got people confidently claiming that TLJ was worse? Crazy.

But eh, to each their own. I loved both the story of TLJ and how the story was told so win/win for me. Other people apparently want to portray it as a meme-worthy disaster which is quite bizarre but who am I to judge.

I bet you went with Karamazov to see this...you told him that you'll post a few minutes after him so it wont look that way.....don't drink the milk...why?...because its spoiled!

 

[karamazov80]

I do get the general impression that folks who are unhappy had expectations that weren't met here. And that's understandable after Force Awakens and Rogue One, which essentially told the fans, "don't worry, we'll check off all the nostalgia buttons and everyone will walk away with smiles on their faces." Now, Disney does an about face, and the reaction is extreme. But that doesn't mean that the story was perfect beyond unmet expectations. I think Iron Man 3 was a better told story overall. But this film was certainly better eye candy.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

Disney will now overreact and the next SW movie will have NO FEMALES.

Begun the sausage wars has.

 

[Khev]

I do get the general impression that folks who are unhappy had expectations that weren't met here. And that's understandable after Force Awakens and Rogue One, which essentially told the fans, "don't worry, we'll check off all the nostalgia buttons and everyone will walk away with smiles on their faces." Now, Disney does an about face, and the reaction is extreme. But that doesn't mean that the story was perfect beyond unmet expectations. I think Iron Man 3 was a better told story overall. But this film was certainly better eye candy.

Yes, definitely. And obviously no one has claimed that TLJ was perfect outside of unmet expectations at least as far as I've seen.

 

[crows]

Dude I just had lunch, this was unnecessary

Im never drinking milk again

 

[aa909]

I dislike the way many conservative viewers have handled their contempt of this film. However, beneath the sexist rhetoric (Mary Sue) there's truth in many of the criticisms.

Luke wasn't just flawed and tormented. He was afflicted with "Toxic Masculinity", just like Kylo and Poe. Luke was so consumed by his own self-perception and the disparity between his myth and reality, so filled with guilt for his missteps and vain in his attempt to keep his hands clean, that he stopped "empathizing" (in the film's terms, not mine). Luke also Mansplained that the Jedi would end, appealing to his patriarchal traditionalism in attempting to determine Rey's course, attempting to exert control over her power. As it turns out, the old, white, hetero male with all his traditional knowledge, grounded in experience, was useless. None of it matters, because everything you need to know is, like, totally inside you, bruh.

But sure... he can astral project. That's "cool".

The Post-Modernism in this film was explicit. The problem with Post-Modernism is that it's lack of a coherent criteria for what constitutes knowledge leads to the validation of claims that are nonsense, because "truths" are a construct. For example, you get SJW's who claim that knowledge, reason and the scientific method, "critical rationalism" are patriarchal concepts or a part of western colonialism. If your culture says that voodoo is real, and that you can put a lightening hex on people?



Meanwhile, acquiring knowledge means an attempt to FALSIFY that which is inside you. You challenge your own beliefs, in order to learn. This film depicts knowledge in a way that, ironically, is vain. It's pathetic. Here's how knowledge actually works, not just in the sciences but in general:

as a scientist and an engineer I am so disturbed by the first video you posted I don't even know where to start. That "panel" was literally arguing that scientific and mathematical equations which describe physics are some how "subjective" and derived from a cultural belief to accept these equations as "knowledge"??!!??

I honestly wish I hadn't watched that even more than I wish I never watched TLJ

 

[Chakor]

Every other scene was just embarrassingly painful. Actors with no charisma OR chemistry awkwardly trying to spout terrible dialogue in front of jarring 2D cartoon backgrounds. It was just horrible on so many levels and yet you've got people confidently claiming that TLJ was worse? Crazy.

It's interesting how the power of a Disney logo can make people both like and dislike something more than they actually would.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Also, some characters I thought didn't work well. Del Toro's character's mannerisms were annoying, Fisher was incredibly wooden (though I don't blame the filmmakers for giving her the role that they did). Hux was treated like a comedic foil, but it didn't work that well IMO. Phasma seems that much more pathetic now, though they kept portraying her like a bad-ass in how she was shot. Chewy, R2, and 3PO serve no meaningful role.

You didn't mention Finn and Rose who must have occupied at least 20% of the film....

 

[Adolfo]

as a scientist and an engineer I am so disturbed by the first video you posted I don't even know where to start. That "panel" was literally arguing that scientific and mathematical equations which describe physics are some how "subjective" and derived from a cultural belief to accept these equations as "knowledge"??!!??

I honestly wish I hadn't watched that even more than I wish I never watched TLJ

And your taxes go to them