Those who disliked TLJ, are you still buying toys from it?

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The irony is, most transgendered people agree with you. That's my point. Most transgendered people go through extremely painful surgery, with over a year recovery time, so they can "present" the way they are on the inside. I know a couple of transgendered people, and have interacted with a lot of them because of where I live. Transgendered people know that they're not biological men or women, and I've never met one who would argue that your sex is whatever you say it is, or that you have an obligation to perceive them one way or another. On the contrary, most of them go to very great lengths to "pass", so that you have no idea that the sex they were born with is different from how they look. Moreover, they're not doing it for you, but because they themselves want to look "like a man", or "like a woman".

In other words, if most transgendered people didn't care about their actual physiology, they wouldn't go through the agony of trying to look like one sex or another. I'm sure there are SJW transgendered people, but I've never met one. If you met a transgendered person, they'd probably ask you to address them as "he" or "she", and be grateful if you accommodated them. They probably wouldn't get moralistic at you, the way SJW's do. It would be like a person in a wheel chair asking you to hold a door open. You'd see them in a wheel chair and think, "Well yeah, of course. Poor bastard." Right? It's the same thing.

I would agree with that. :duff

Although this is getting way off topic now. Went from the genders of characters in SW to gender dysphoria.

Passionate topics for everyone of course, but truthfully, I really couldn't care less what the policial views are of folks here. This is sort of a 1/6 collectors' "safe space". People already disagree enough about the intricacies on what we collectively have an interest in. Bunch of SW fans in one room, what could go wrong with that? They all like SW so they'll get along. :lol
 
I would agree with that. :duff

Although this is getting way off topic now. Went from the genders of characters in SW to gender dysphoria.

Passionate topics for everyone of course, but truthfully, I really couldn't care less what the policial views are of folks here. This is sort of a 1/6 collectors' "safe space". People already disagree enough about the intricacies on what we collectively have an interest in. :lol

Well, the way I see it The Last Jedi is responsible for these conversations. Disney wants us to talk about this stuff, or they wouldn't have put it into the film. I realize it puts Mods in a difficult position, because on the one hand they want to focus on the toys. On the other hand, these are $300 toys aimed at adults, and so talking about what the toys are meant to represent should be part of the discussion, right?

I think as long as we're polite to each other, it's not too big a deal. I care about transgendered people in my life, but I won't freak out if you claim that you're an Attack Helicopter. :lol These kinds of ideological issues are now interwoven into the franchise. Thank Johnson and Kennedy. They've added fuel to the fire, with their poorly executed film.

You and I just had a polite disagreement about transgender issues. See everyone? It went fine. We're playing nice, and even arrived at a middle ground of sorts, which is more of an accomplishment that anything The Last Jedi achieved as a film. Perhaps Disney should hire SilverStar17 and myself to oversee the subtext of the next film? :lol
 
Well to be fair, I didn't disagree with you though. I felt it was pretty much the same sentiment, just worded differently. :lol

I disagree regarding your stance on mortality not existing, but that was already politely addressed in another thread and doesn't need rehashing. :lol
 
"Taken away."

Once again, this implies that these roles belong to white men by default.

Exactly. You have dishonest white males I presume who prefer things stay the same with continued discrimination against women and minorities but masks that desire in concern for white males being some how discriminated against by the white males who still control everything.
 
Yup, I only bought Luke in full Jedi gear from the TFA release. Passing on hobo/Fellowship of the Ring Luke from TLJ. His only cool moment in the movie was in the full Jedi regalia anyway. Might consider astral Luke with the Just For Men dyed beard and the old RoTJ-ish outfit.
 
I think the title should be: Those who disliked TLJ, Why are you still buying toys from it?

:lol
 
Again, you use the word "replace," like the default is a man, and a woman is taking that role.

If you take a male character and replace it with a female character in order to include more women you are replacing placing then. If you create a new character and they are whatever they are that isnt replacement. Like Finn or Rey are new. Bsg Starbuck or dr who or James Bond are/were male and have been or are being considered to be changed so you are replacing them



Of course no default character exists and frankly that seems to be an attempt to assign your values to me by picking on a word choice. Characters can and should be all genders etc and I have never not watched something because it has a insertwhatever you want lead character rather than a white male heterosexual
 
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Well, the way I see it The Last Jedi is responsible for these conversations. Disney wants us to talk about this stuff, or they wouldn't have put it into the film. I realize it puts Mods in a difficult position, because on the one hand they want to focus on the toys. On the other hand, these are $300 toys aimed at adults, and so talking about what the toys are meant to represent should be part of the discussion, right?

I think as long as we're polite to each other, it's not too big a deal. I care about transgendered people in my life, but I won't freak out if you claim that you're an Attack Helicopter. :lol These kinds of ideological issues are now interwoven into the franchise. Thank Johnson and Kennedy. They've added fuel to the fire, with their poorly executed film.

You and I just had a polite disagreement about transgender issues. See everyone? It went fine. We're playing nice, and even arrived at a middle ground of sorts, which is more of an accomplishment that anything The Last Jedi achieved as a film. Perhaps Disney should hire SilverStar17 and myself to oversee the subtext of the next film? :lol

This is correct, if they put adult content into movies that mirror everyday "real" dilemmas there is no way to ignore it. Merchandise since Disney bought LucasArts has been abundant and at times annoying. Most of my toy/retail stores have no room for new product because they are still stuck with TFA (Yes the Force Awakens) items, granite I live in Deadwood, South Dakota not the most busiest neck of the woods. The only items that seem to be difficult to find are the new Star Wars Black series 6" figures, and from my understanding they are scarce everywhere. Even more the new Forces of Density (Barbie Dolls) line has taken up many end-caps and has made the "action figure" inventory smaller. This just shows that Star Wars is heading in a different direction, but is there enough demand for these new products?
 
This is correct, if they put adult content into movies that mirror everyday "real" dilemmas there is no way to ignore it. Merchandise since Disney bought LucasArts has been abundant and at times annoying. Most of my toy/retail stores have no room for new product because they are still stuck with TFA (Yes the Force Awakens) items, granite I live in Deadwood, South Dakota not the most busiest neck of the woods. The only items that seem to be difficult to find are the new Star Wars Black series 6" figures, and from my understanding they are scarce everywhere. Even more the new Forces of Density (Barbie Dolls) line has taken up many end-caps and has made the "action figure" inventory smaller. This just shows that Star Wars is heading in a different direction, but is there enough demand for these new products?
I worry that all these different competing lines are hurting the overall line - I’m in the uk and there is lots of this product sitting on shelves even with reductions /forces of destiny is everywhere and doesn’t seem to be selling - I know I person who expressed interest in getting it for her daughter but it doesn’t look like a particularly good product - from a parents view.
I don’t see girls using them with Barbie so why not just get your daughter the normal figures - when I was a kid my cousins (boy and girl) just played with the normal ones.

Also too many lines with incomplete figure line ups
 
I watched TLJ again yesterday, and liked it a lot more. Sure the bad jokes are still there, and you just have to ignore them. But the whole movie did seem better on a second viewing, as others have also said.

Interestingly the thing which annoyed me the most was the "slow-mo" space chase scene. Why the hell wouldn't the First Order simply use light speed (or sub light speed) to jump to get ahead of the rebels ? They weren't short on fuel !!

I mean sure there's a lot in movies which don't make sense in real life, but c'mon. That is extremely poor.

I guess I'll just assume the FO wanted to play with them. Stupid that I should even need to dream up a reason though.

I'm still not buying any figures from the movie though ;-)
 
TLJ has so many plot holes and bad writing that is insane. TPM was bad, but this is on par with that. Holy Force of Porg steak. :(
 
Interestingly the thing which annoyed me the most was the "slow-mo" space chase scene. Why the hell wouldn't the First Order simply use light speed (or a sub light speed) jump to get ahead of the rebels ? They weren't short on fuel !!

That's actually an easy one. Light speed is for jumping extremely long distances in an extremely short amount of time. If they went into light speed while trailing the Resistance as such a short distance, even for a few seconds, they would have blown right by them and lost them. Plus, the Resistance still had their shields up, so it would have been pointless to stop them when they couldn't have boarded anyway, as I'm sure they wanted prisoners.

Besides, did you really want light speed to be used as a plot device for a third time in a single film :huh
 
Exactly. You have dishonest white males I presume who prefer things stay the same with continued discrimination against women and minorities but masks that desire in concern for white males being some how discriminated against by the white males who still control everything.

Keeping in mind that this thread is about buying toys, I think you're forgetting context entirely, here. Star Wars was originally a mythology about the male experience, as a coming of age story. Originally, it only had one female character. The toys were solely marketed to boys, arguably until ROTJ started selling Ewoks. Star Wars became an important part of our culture, for men. Many grown men have a strong emotional attachment to Star Wars, by design, because it was about them, and marketed to them as children.

When you take a mythology about a group of people, and use the iconography to describe "Toxic Masculinity" in such a way where every single male in the story becomes a parody of manhood, that's iconoclasm. Of course, men are going to be angry. Why wouldn't they be? A mythology originally marketed to them, meant to encapsulate what was once exclusively the male experience, is now being subverted and used as sexist feminist propaganda, at them. Meanwhile, Star Wars had so much influence on men within our culture, that the franchise arguably drove technological innovation. It's an integral part of western culture.

Meanwhile, the reason why feminism is sexist toward men, has been conveyed explicitly within your answer. The ideology is absurd. In blaming "Patriarchy" for all the ills of society, feminism blames all men for systemic bigotry. This is literally irrational, for the reasons that the Left, including feminism, used to address until radical feminists took over the movement in the 70's.

The problem with the Left, is that it no longer acknowledges social class as a driving force behind the structure of society. For all its talk of 'intersectionality', feminism willfully turns a blind eye to the fact that working class men are indeed exploited by the men who rule them. The fact that you explicitly find that statement to be absurd, is indicative of your indoctrination by this irrational dogma. There is no solidarity among white men. The ruling class has always benefited from the labor of the working class. The working class has always had no control over the mode of production. I'm not a socialist. I'm not even Left wing, but you don't have to be Left wing to recognize an accurate description when you see it. Working class people are exploited, and have no control. Working class men are exploited, and have no control over the structure of society.

So when you blame working class white men for inequality, you're claiming that people who have no control are complicit because of how they're ruled. This is not only problematic in that it's fruitless, but it's also problematic in that it creates DIVISION among the working class. Remember when the Left used to want SOLIDARITY? Not anymore. Radical feminists and sociologists are attempting to divide the working class into tiny interest groups, based on the 'intersectionality' of their oppression.

Marx used to call this kind of Leftist nonsense "petite bourgeoise", where members of The Left take on the ideals of the ruling class, seeking equality among servants within a framework of exploitation. Again, I'm no socialist, but an accurate description is an accurate description.

Why is this significant? The detriment that the Left is posing, with it's "intersectional" divisiveness can't be overstated. We're entering into an era where 40% of the workforce will no longer be necessary. That's conventional wisdom, not some sort of conspiracy theory. AI will soon render 40% of the population redundant as available labor. To give you an idea of how serious that is, the Great Depression only had about 23% unemployment, and people starved to death. The solution being discussed? Basic Income: a kind of corporate welfare base entirely on taxed revenue. In other words, in an era where employment won't be necessary, corporations still want your subsistence to be tethered to the volatility of the market. The ruling class wants to maintain control over production, even though that level of inequality no longer has a function when production is automated.

There's no opposition, because there's no labor movement. There's no solidarity. Instead, the working class are being convinced to fight amongst themselves. Corporations who own everything, keep adding fuel to the fire. The Last Jedi was fuel to the fire. It was a ridiculous, bigoted film that had no function, beyond further dividing people politically.

So yeah, I think it's fair to say I'm being honest, that white men do oppress other white men. The acknowledgement of a ruling class use to be at the center of Leftist ideology. Now it's ridiculed by feminists who fantasize about a world where "the patriarchy" rules everything. :lol Enjoy basic income. I'll be exploiting people with sociology and gender studies degrees, to avoid the future breadlines you'll be depending on. Like I said, I'm no socialist. :lol
 
Perhaps they liked a certain character or characters.

Exactly. While I didn't care for TLJ, I did enjoy TFA, and all four of the new characters that I like from the ST (Rey, Poe, Hux and Kylo) were all in TFA and will be in Episode 9, so I'd want to add them to my collection. Whether I like it or not, this movie is canon, so I may as well try to find things to enjoy out of it rather than deny it in my collection all together.
 
Keeping in mind that this thread is about buying toys, I think you're forgetting context entirely, here. Star Wars was originally a mythology about the male experience, as a coming of age story. Originally, it only had one female character. The toys were solely marketed to boys, arguably until ROTJ started selling Ewoks. Star Wars became an important part of our culture, for men. Many grown men have a strong emotional attachment to Star Wars, by design, because it was about them, and marketed to them as children.

When you take a mythology about a group of people, and use the iconography to describe "Toxic Masculinity" in such a way where every single male in the story becomes a parody of manhood, that's iconoclasm. Of course, men are going to be angry. Why wouldn't they be? A mythology originally marketed to them, meant to encapsulate what was once exclusively the male experience, is now being subverted and used as sexist feminist propaganda, at them. Meanwhile, Star Wars had so much influence on men within our culture, that the franchise arguably drove technological innovation. It's an integral part of western culture.

Meanwhile, the reason why feminism is sexist toward men, has been conveyed explicitly within your answer. The ideology is absurd. In blaming "Patriarchy" for all the ills of society, feminism blames all men for systemic bigotry. This is literally irrational, for the reasons that the Left, including feminism, used to address until radical feminists took over the movement in the 70's.

The problem with the Left, is that it no longer acknowledges social class as a driving force behind the structure of society. For all its talk of 'intersectionality', feminism willfully turns a blind eye to the fact that working class men are indeed exploited by the men who rule them. The fact that you explicitly find that statement to be absurd, is indicative of your indoctrination by this irrational dogma. There is no solidarity among white men. The ruling class has always benefited from the labor of the working class. The working class has always had no control over the mode of production. I'm not a socialist. I'm not even Left wing, but you don't have to be Left wing to recognize an accurate description when you see it. Working class people are exploited, and have no control. Working class men are exploited, and have no control over the structure of society.

So when you blame working class white men for inequality, you're claiming that people who have no control are complicit because of how they're ruled. This is not only problematic in that it's fruitless, but it's also problematic in that it creates DIVISION among the working class. Remember when the Left used to want SOLIDARITY? Not anymore. Radical feminists and sociologists are attempting to divide the working class into tiny interest groups, based on the 'intersectionality' of their oppression.

Marx used to call this kind of Leftist nonsense "petite bourgeoise", where members of The Left take on the ideals of the ruling class, seeking equality among servants within a framework of exploitation. Again, I'm no socialist, but an accurate description is an accurate description.

Why is this significant? The detriment that the Left is posing, with it's "intersectional" divisiveness can't be overstated. We're entering into an era where 40% of the workforce will no longer be necessary. That's conventional wisdom, not some sort of conspiracy theory. AI will soon render 40% of the population redundant as available labor. To give you an idea of how serious that is, the Great Depression only had about 23% unemployment, and people starved to death. The solution being discussed? Basic Income: a kind of corporate welfare base entirely on taxed revenue. In other words, in an era where employment won't be necessary, corporations still want your subsistence to be tethered to the volatility of the market. The ruling class wants to maintain control over production, even though that level of inequality no longer has a function when production is automated.

There's no opposition, because there's no labor movement. There's no solidarity. Instead, the working class are being convinced to fight amongst themselves. Corporations who own everything, keep adding fuel to the fire. The Last Jedi was fuel to the fire. It was a ridiculous, bigoted film that had no function, beyond further dividing people politically.

So yeah, I think it's fair to say I'm being honest, that white men do oppress other white men. The acknowledgement of a ruling class use to be at the center of Leftist ideology. Now it's ridiculed by feminists who fantasize about a world where "the patriarchy" rules everything. :lol Enjoy basic income. I'll be exploiting people with sociology and gender studies degrees, to avoid the future breadlines you'll be depending on. Like I said, I'm no socialist. :lol

I feel bad about never bothering to read all that crap you obviously spent a while writing.
 
I feel bad about never bothering to read all that crap you obviously spent a while writing.

I don't care. Feminists are irrational, so I reason at them, not to them. My goal wasn't to change your mind, so much as demonstrate how ridiculous your ideas are. :rotfl
 
Keeping in mind that this thread is about buying toys, I think you're forgetting context entirely, here. Star Wars was originally a mythology about the male experience, as a coming of age story. Originally, it only had one female character. The toys were solely marketed to boys, arguably until ROTJ started selling Ewoks. Star Wars became an important part of our culture, for men. Many grown men have a strong emotional attachment to Star Wars, by design, because it was about them, and marketed to them as children.

When you take a mythology about a group of people, and use the iconography to describe "Toxic Masculinity" in such a way where every single male in the story becomes a parody of manhood, that's iconoclasm. Of course, men are going to be angry. Why wouldn't they be? A mythology originally marketed to them, meant to encapsulate what was once exclusively the male experience, is now being subverted and used as sexist feminist propaganda, at them. Meanwhile, Star Wars had so much influence on men within our culture, that the franchise arguably drove technological innovation. It's an integral part of western culture.

Meanwhile, the reason why feminism is sexist toward men, has been conveyed explicitly within your answer. The ideology is absurd. In blaming "Patriarchy" for all the ills of society, feminism blames all men for systemic bigotry. This is literally irrational, for the reasons that the Left, including feminism, used to address until radical feminists took over the movement in the 70's.

The problem with the Left, is that it no longer acknowledges social class as a driving force behind the structure of society. For all its talk of 'intersectionality', feminism willfully turns a blind eye to the fact that working class men are indeed exploited by the men who rule them. The fact that you explicitly find that statement to be absurd, is indicative of your indoctrination by this irrational dogma. There is no solidarity among white men. The ruling class has always benefited from the labor of the working class. The working class has always had no control over the mode of production. I'm not a socialist. I'm not even Left wing, but you don't have to be Left wing to recognize an accurate description when you see it. Working class people are exploited, and have no control. Working class men are exploited, and have no control over the structure of society.

So when you blame working class white men for inequality, you're claiming that people who have no control are complicit because of how they're ruled. This is not only problematic in that it's fruitless, but it's also problematic in that it creates DIVISION among the working class. Remember when the Left used to want SOLIDARITY? Not anymore. Radical feminists and sociologists are attempting to divide the working class into tiny interest groups, based on the 'intersectionality' of their oppression.

Marx used to call this kind of Leftist nonsense "petite bourgeoise", where members of The Left take on the ideals of the ruling class, seeking equality among servants within a framework of exploitation. Again, I'm no socialist, but an accurate description is an accurate description.

Why is this significant? The detriment that the Left is posing, with it's "intersectional" divisiveness can't be overstated. We're entering into an era where 40% of the workforce will no longer be necessary. That's conventional wisdom, not some sort of conspiracy theory. AI will soon render 40% of the population redundant as available labor. To give you an idea of how serious that is, the Great Depression only had about 23% unemployment, and people starved to death. The solution being discussed? Basic Income: a kind of corporate welfare base entirely on taxed revenue. In other words, in an era where employment won't be necessary, corporations still want your subsistence to be tethered to the volatility of the market. The ruling class wants to maintain control over production, even though that level of inequality no longer has a function when production is automated.

There's no opposition, because there's no labor movement. There's no solidarity. Instead, the working class are being convinced to fight amongst themselves. Corporations who own everything, keep adding fuel to the fire. The Last Jedi was fuel to the fire. It was a ridiculous, bigoted film that had no function, beyond further dividing people politically.

So yeah, I think it's fair to say I'm being honest, that white men do oppress other white men. The acknowledgement of a ruling class use to be at the center of Leftist ideology. Now it's ridiculed by feminists who fantasize about a world where "the patriarchy" rules everything. :lol Enjoy basic income. I'll be exploiting people with sociology and gender studies degrees, to avoid the future breadlines you'll be depending on. Like I said, I'm no socialist. :lol

Well I am socialist. At its core socialism is workers control over production or industrial democracy. I can tell you that these postmodern feminists are not Left.

They are effectively in service to power. They undermine resistance to the corporate state. In other words they direct people to look at this hand here while this other hand sucks up all of the wealth. That's why this twisted ideology is embraced by the corporate media.



 
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