Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

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You literally have no way of proving that the opt-in votes that account for RT's 50% negative audience score *actually represent* 50% of those who saw it. However while the box office numbers don't for a second prove that it's a good film it does show that it's a popular film. Combine that with 3rd party audience polls and critic scores and it's easy to see which stat is the anomaly. But hey, you agree with the anomaly so everything else is rigged/bought off/wrong right? :cuckoo:

I paid to see this movie opening weekend and well ... I liked it about as much as Anakin likes sand.

i-dont-like-sand-its-coarse-and-rough-and-irritating-and-it-gets-everywhere.jpg

I didn't leave a review on Rotten Tomatoes (positive or negative) and I wasn't asked to take part in cinemascores poll or any other polls for that matter.

So am I to be counted amongst those that 'liked' the movie because I paid to see it thereby contributing to the box office (I want my money back lol but that wasn't an option unfortunately)?

If you get a chance to read through a few pages of the latest Rotten Tomatoes audience reviews you may notice a trend that a lot of the negative ones are long, detailed and discuss reasons other than the 'rarrr I hate diversity / feminism' angle. Compare that with the positive reviews which I have found to be typically 3 lines long and say 'Yay it's Star Wars but new and if you don't like that then boohoo fanboy because Star Wars isn't for you anymore ... but man that Canto Bight scene dragged' (sure there are outliers on each side).

I've been watching Rotten Tomatoes on a daily basis ever since I saw the film ... for the lols I tell you (and because I'm sad, mostly because I'm sad ... like 51% because I'm sad and 49% for the lols) and I agree with you that the 49% 'like it' score is pretty meaningless. RT are without a doubt applying some form of aggregator / algorithm to 'count' audience scores. I've noticed a much much higher proportion of negative reviews against positive ones during my time reading them and ever since it hit 50% the score has barely budged despite the larger proportion of negative reviews that keep on rolling in (perhaps it's some form of 'anti-troll algorithm' or something). It also lacks transparency because you can't go back further than the last 50 pages of audience review scores so it is impossible to actually count each one and check RT's averages. Without knowing the algorithm that RT applies to the scores it's not possible to truly apply any weight to the 'audience score' that they provide.

I guess my point is that all these things / scores / critic's reviews can be manipulated and all the websites putting them out / publishing them have an agenda of some sorts (whether it's to get more traffic to their page or perhaps even to please the Galactic Empir... er Disney).

I know a lot of folks point to the box office score and yeh I agree it's large but when you put it in context (i.e. that it's a Star Wars saga movie, the follow up to the box office smash hit TFA, had a monumental marketing campaign / hype machine behind it and was set to resolve a lot of dangling plot threads from TFA) is it really as high as you were expecting and do you think it's what the shareholders / directors were anticipating?

In the end I can only go on my view and I strongly disliked the movie (it now stands alongside X-men Last Stand, Alien 3 and Dark Tower in my most disappointing movies of all time list). I don't think I'm a troll (I'm too lazy for that haha), I'm fairly liberal in my views and most importantly I'm a super easy SW fan to please... I like the freakin prequels. I'm not an old OT purist as I'm from the prequel generation so I would have thought that I'm one of the fans that Disney were hoping to hang on to ... you know when they let the past die and killed it when they had to.

I can't believe that I actually have more interest in Solo now than Episode 9 ... if you could have told me that prior to watching TLJ I would have laughed so hard but alas the joke was on me. What sucks the most is that I really wanted to like this movie, I don't enjoy being a 'hater' and I like even less seeing a picture that leaves me feeling so disappointed.
 
All of this talk of vocal minority of haters...

I would say that from the people I have talked with (I work in a hospital), this board, you tube, and other message boards.. 50/50 love/hate seems to be pretty fair. Now that is just me and who the hell am I?? But I literally only talked with one person who loved this film. I have talked with a few who thought it was ok or pretty good.. But most have thought it is was bad or worse. But most of the people I talk to are long time Star Wars fans and not the general / casual fan. But like I said.. Who the hell am I? I live in the middle of nowhere and don;t pretend to be a very large sample of SW polling :lol

As for Cinemascore.. Well Its been pointed out plenty that the PT rated very high also. Getting a score from an excited group of fans (especially star wars fans) is not going to be IMO an accurate reading. Hell I would have gave it a decent score right after I saw it (B rating) but my score came down after just thinking about it for a bit (C- rating) Basically from the time it took me to get from the theater to my home it lost a lot from me.

As for the money.. Well I can only post the "adjusted for inflation" numbers so many times to show that this is the third least popular of the series so far.. Beating out AOTC and ROTS. But even being the least popular in the SW saga still makes you very popular.

If I go by Cinemascore / Box office / Rotten tomatoes scores then TFA has to be considered the best Star Wars film out there. We all know that's not true.. Its the second worst ;)

Of course I am not saying that TLJ does not have its fans (as wrong as they might be ;)). But I don;t believe for a second that the haters are a tiny vocal minority...Maybe its not 50 / 50... But I would say it's not that far off. Hell many of the reviews I have read and watched that liked it still complained about many of the issues that the film had.. Yet they could look past it. Good for them :)

Ultimately it does not matter.. SW is the OT... Everything else is fan fiction with the exception of RO :)
 
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Why didnt Leia know through the Force? She knew when he needed help on the Bespin weather vane. They're frigging Force twins.
Never mind, just another plot hole someone will over reach to explain.

Leia knew. Rey didn't tell her anything she didn't know.
 
Your signature of Hamill shell shocked and Rian, is that just after the premiere screening?
Is there a video of that with sound at length? I'd like to hear what they said because all I've seen is Hamill slack jawed thinking " The fugging mouse just killed me, Luke friggin Skywalker!"

Yeah, it was from youtube - it was supposedly just after the premiere. Will try to find it in my history.

Do you start a book series and start with the 7th book? Because that's what Star Wars did with TFA in China. There's a reason it's episode 7 and 8 :lol I think your criticism would've been right had they seperated the new movies centuries into the future or past, to the point that you didn't need to know the story of the OT and the PT. But TFA literally opens with ''Luke Skywalker has vanished''. It immediatly ties into the OT from the first second. Marvel has a shared universe, but really, most of their movies have their own self contained story, you'd be fine jumping into nearly any Marvel movie without having seen any of the others.

A movie - or trilogy - stands on its own or not at all. The Hobbit movies - direct prequels (that have call-backs to LOTR characters) to a series that was released when China had less than 1/10 the number of screens it does today - were much bigger successes in China than TLJ (the final Hobbit movie made $120m.)

Do you know how much the first POTC movie made in China? Or the LOTR movies? About $2m. Nobody had heard of them, nobody saw them - nobody was "familiar with the story." The last POTC? It made $172m in China.

He knew that his character died before they ever started shooting.

Where was that confirmed?

All of this talk of vocal minority of haters...

I would say that from the people I have talked with (I work in a hospital), this board, you tube, and other message boards.. 50/50 love/hate seems to be pretty fair.

In my experience, it's been pretty all the SW fans I personally know hated it, and most the "regular moviegoers" friends liked it, but didn't love it - kinda like "a fun Friday night" kind of thing.

I have never seen all of my SW friends hate a SW film - even the PT had defenders. It was this that made me realize the early media stories about a "small number of haters" was false, and that something more major was underway.
 
While I hate The Last Jedi, and The Force Awakens was nowhere near as bad in my opinion, I knew the series was in trouble when watching Force Awakens as Chewy walks right past Leia after Hans death and Leia embraces Rey.
 
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