Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[aa909]

How much of that Billion came from OT fans piling in to see Luke’s story arc after 35 years, who would’ve never paid to watch the film had they known what they were walking into? Total bait and switch by KK. I’d bet you could conservatively shave $300-$400 Million off that tally had folks know the storyline. And I bet that’ll be what happens for Ep 9 unless JJ pulls a rabbit out of his a55 and saves this next film.

Interestingly enough, $300-$400M is exactly how much lower this performed than initial analyst projections. Probably hints that fewer people went for multiple viewings than expected.

 

[Khev]

In case more proof was needed that there wasn't even an outline for TLJ, Hamill recently revealed that at the end of TFA, when Rey sees him, we was supposed to have giant boulders floating around him (as in, he wasn't disconnected from the Force, at all). Jedi Master practice basically.

When he read the script for TLJ and the part about Luke being disconnected from the Force, he contacted JJ/Ruin to clear things out, and they told him that the boulders ended up not being included to make sure things would remain coherent between both movies.

So really, in JJ's mind after finishing TFA, Luke was going to go in a completely different direction. Not only does this show once again (they said it anyway) that there is no clear plan for this trilogy, but also that we could have had something way different had Ruin Johnson not been the writer on this movie.

You're right, we could have had something different in TLJ. We could have had an *idiotic* Luke who was "connected to the Force," levitating rocks, and deliberately doing NOTHING about the danger that lead to Han's death. Johnson saved the narrative (and Luke's character) from being driven right off that cliff. ESB clearly established very specifically *on-screen* that when Luke is in tune with the Force and, wait for it, levitating rocks that he gets clear visions of his friends in pain. If he was doing that in TFA, watching Leia's anguish and Han's death while deliberately doing nothing it would have been unforgivable.

Now Han's death comes across as an unanticipated (and more importantly unintended) consequence of him shutting himself off from the Force due to the trauma of Ben turning and slaughtering his other students. Brilliant move by Johnson to right that particular ship set up by Abrams before it was too late.

 

[jye4ever]

I walked away from Pirates 5 and Kong with clear excitement, I walked out of TLJ without knowing how I felt about it at all.

Let's just take a look at the top 2017 earners in China to see what types of films that country embraces:

1 Wolf Warrior 2 $854,248,869 7/27
2 The Fate of the Furious $392,807,017 4/14
3 Never Say Die $333,937,573 9/30
4 Kung Fu Yoga $254,531,595 1/28
5 Journey to the West: The Demons Strike Back $239,553,888 1/28
6 Transformers: The Last Knight $228,842,508 6/23
7 Youth (2017) $209,163,027 12/15
8 The Ex-File: The Return of the Exes $200,575,464 12/29
9 Dangal $193,050,870 5/5
10 Coco $184,172,937 11/24
11 Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales $172,277,290 5/26
12 Kong: Skull Island $168,188,002 3/24
13 xXx: The Return of Xander Cage $164,066,583 2/10
14 Resident Evil: The Final Chapter $159,548,686 2/24
15 Despicable Me 3 $158,171,566 7/7

So why did China reject TLJ? Um apparently because it isn't white hot GARBAGE. FFS that list looks like a line-up of nominees for the ****ing Razzies. Thank God that TLJ isn't anywhere near those films.

Resident Evil lol

The last Resident Evil movie made it on there...That's great

That is hilarious.

Accounting in China must be very reliable. lol

I got the PT/OT bluray set from a few years ago. Watched the first 4 and didn't finish. No disney on the shelf.

That will make you and DiFabio everyone else is fair game though

In response to your attempt to create a narrative of box office disappointment because of one country with absolute **** taste in films? Yep, we'll bring up the billion dollars each and every time.

Um
Umm
Ummm

YUP!

 

[Biojex]

Resident Evil lol



That is hilarious.

Accounting in China must be very reliable. lol

Khev didn't even need to post the whole list. He could have just mentioned RE and his point would have been made

 

[Khev]

Khev didn't even need to post the whole list. He could have just mentioned RE and his point would have been made

Yep but I couldn't resist doubling down when Skull Island, xXx: The Return of Xander Cage, Transformers 5, etc., were also all on the list.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Wow Fast and Furious made nearly $400 million just in China.

Star Wars needs more fast cars.

 

[a-dev]

You're right, we could have had something different in TLJ. We could have had an *idiotic* Luke who was "connected to the Force," levitating rocks, and deliberately doing NOTHING about the danger that lead to Han's death. Johnson saved the narrative (and Luke's character) from being driven right off that cliff. ESB clearly established very specifically *on-screen* that when Luke is in tune with the Force and, wait for it, levitating rocks that he gets clear visions of his friends in pain. If he was doing that in TFA, watching Leia's anguish and Han's death while deliberately doing nothing it would have been unforgivable.

Now Han's death comes across as an unanticipated (and more importantly unintended) consequence of him shutting himself off from the Force due to the trauma of Ben turning and slaughtering his other students. Brilliant move by Johnson to right that particular ship set up by Abrams before it was too late.

See that argument makes sense but it doesn't really help me like this film more. Instead I go back to what I said a few weeks ago that Abrams and TFA are to blame for what we've got now - none of it particularly desirable.

 

[jye4ever]

You're right, we could have had something different in TLJ. We could have had an *idiotic* Luke who was "connected to the Force," levitating rocks, and deliberately doing NOTHING about the danger that lead to Han's death. Johnson saved the narrative (and Luke's character) from being driven right off that cliff. ESB clearly established very specifically *on-screen* that when Luke is in tune with the Force and, wait for it, levitating rocks that he gets clear visions of his friends in pain. If he was doing that in TFA, watching Leia's anguish and Han's death while deliberately doing nothing it would have been unforgivable.

Now Han's death comes across as an unanticipated (and more importantly unintended) consequence of him shutting himself off from the Force due to the trauma of Ben turning and slaughtering his other students. Brilliant move by Johnson to right that particular ship set up by Abrams before it was too late.

I was hoping for a Luke/Kylo showdown in front of Snoke and Kylo says to Luke “If you will not turn to the darkside then perhaps Rey will.”

Then Luke pounds on Kylo and cuts off his hand and Kylo turns good!

Yeah yeah that and then Kylo picks up Snoke and throws him down a very long shaft!

Yeah yeah something fresh and new!

 

[rushmore223]

I didnt steal anything. I paid the theater for entry. I spent 15 bucks on food, that the theater gets in profit, i just happened to get into the wrong theater... oops, soerry

Considering every showing I went to was sold out, I find that hard to believe. Especially if you saw it in the first 2 weeks of release.

 

[jye4ever]

China should be forced at gun point to love SW.

Either embrace it or face annihilation of your species.

They made us love americanized Chinese food it’s only fair they love SW.

 

[Khev]

See that argument makes sense but it doesn't really help me like this film more. Instead I go back to what I said a few weeks ago that Abrams and TFA are to blame for what we've got now - none of it particularly desirable.

Fair enough. I also get why some people would reject this entire new trilogy on the simple fact that it seemingly undermines the warm and fuzzy victory of ROTJ. If you recall I was on that exact same page with you a year ago. But TLJ has reconciled the ST as a continuation of ROTJ for me because 1. I actually do love Luke's arc in this film and 2. DJ's speech about weapons dealers selling TIE Fighters to the highest bidder allows me to assume that the FO is *not* the Empire but rather another evil organization that simply shops at the same stores. That allows me to see ROTJ as the perfect victory it needed to be while viewing the FO as a completely independent threat (headed by Snoke who for all we know isn't even a native of the present galaxy.)

 

[Khev]

I was hoping for a Luke/Kylo showdown in front of Snoke and Kylo says to Luke “If you will not turn to the darkside then perhaps Rey will.”

Then Luke pounds on Kylo and cuts of his hand and Kylo turns good!

Yeah yeah that and then Kylo picks up Snoke and throws him down a very long shaft!

Yeah yeah something fresh and new!

I think it's clear that most detractors didn't want Luke to have any flaws at all, despite complaints against certain other characters that allegedly fit that bill...

 

[Asta]

Fair enough. I also get why some people would reject this entire new trilogy on the simple fact that it seemingly undermines the warm and fuzzy victory of ROTJ. If you recall I was on that exact same page with you a year ago. But TLJ has reconciled the ST as a continuation of ROTJ for me because 1. I actually do love Luke's arc in this film and 2. DJ's speech about weapons dealers selling TIE Fighters to the highest bidder allows me to assume that the FO is *not* the Empire but rather another evil organization that simply shops at the same stores. That allows me to see ROTJ as the perfect victory it needed to be while viewing the FO as a completely independent threat (headed by Snoke who for all we know isn't even a native of the present galaxy.)

The introduction to the Wookiepedia page on the First Order sets the scene:

The First Order, or simply the Order, was a political and militaryfaction that came into existence as a result of the fall of the Galactic Empire. In the aftermath of the Battle of Jakku, the Empire formally surrendered to the New Republic by signing the Galactic Concordance, a peace treaty that marked the end of the Galactic Civil War in 5 ABY. In spite of the Empire's collapse, its legacy survived in the Unknown Regions of the galaxy, where former members of the Imperial Military plotted their return to power. Their cause gained support through some Imperial sympathizers who briefly inhabited a wing of Republic politics before abandoning the nascent democracy to join the Imperial-based movement in the Unknown Regions. Inspired by what it saw as the fascist ideals of the Empire, this movement sought to improve upon that regime by avoiding its weaknesses and flaws, ultimately resulting in the formation of the First Order.

In the decades that followed the Empire's defeat, the First Order gradually built its strength through the secret mobilization of new fleetsand armies in violation of the Galactic Concordance and Republic law. Despite further acts of defiance to the treaty, the Galactic Senate did not regard the First Order as a serious threat to the Republic. However, the Senate's inaction motivated the Rebel veteran PrincessLeia Organa to found the Resistance. Although the First Order became entangled in a conflict with Organa's group, the Republic remained its primary target. After thirty years of plotting their revenge against the government that overthrew the Empire, the First Order test-fired the superweapon of Starkiller Base on the Hosnian system and thereby destroyed Hosnian Prime, the capital world of the Republic. Shortly thereafter, the Resistance launched a counterattack that resulted in the base's destruction.

Swiftly rallying, the First Order deployed their previously hidden flotillas against the galaxy, forcibly seizing control of thousands of systems and being poised to seize the Core Worlds within weeks. Desiring to crush their opposition, the First Order attacked the Resistance base on D'Qar and then pursued them using their new hyperspace tracking to the Crait system, where Supreme Leader Snoke perished at the hands of his apprentice, who then succeeded him. The few remaining rebels fled to Crait, where the First Order was poised to crush them completely. However, the sudden appearance of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker via a Force projection distracted the First Order forces long enough for the Resistance survivors to escape, inspiring hope against the rising darkness.

https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Order


The Imperial Remnant is still canon as well:

https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_remnant_(Cold_war)

 

[Wor-Gar]

They made us love americanized Chinese food it’s only fair they love SW.

 

[jye4ever]

Khev didn't even need to post the whole list. He could have just mentioned RE and his point would have been made

yup

Khev gave us extra sauce lol

I think it's clear that most detractors didn't want Luke to have any flaws at all, despite complaints against certain other characters that allegedly fit that bill...

It’s simple if you want a swashbuckling space epic with a flawed hero and cackling witch watch the OT.

So all SW movies forever and ever will always need to have a flawed protagonist Jedi structured in the exact same manner as Luke?

Why it will never be allowed to be as good as Luke’s so why not try a different narrative path.

Isn’t Die Hard 9 still trying to do the same thing as Die Hard 1 how’s that working out for them lol

 

[Khev]

The introduction to the Wookiepedia page on the First Order sets the scene:

Thanks for posting. Interesting stuff.

I think there's still enough wiggle room based on what's shown on screen for me to interpret the FO's origins differently. Now will I bring that mindset to a "what's canon" debate? No. But I always pick and choose what I allow into my head canon anyway. I know that Ridley Scott wants me to accept Deckard as a replicant but I'm going to call BS on that until the day I die, lol.

 

[jye4ever]

Thanks for posting. Interesting stuff.



I think there's still enough wiggle room based on what's shown on screen for me to interpret the FO's origins differently. Now will I bring that mindset to a "what's canon" debate? No. But I always pick and choose what I allow into my head canon anyway. I know that Ridley Scott wants me to accept Deckard as a replicant but I'm going to call BS on that until the day I die, lol.

See jye’s avatar for hidden message.

 

[Khev]

It’s simple if you want a swashbuckling space epic with a flawed hero and cackling witch watch the OT.

So all SW movies forever and ever will always need to have a flawed protagonist Jedi structured in the exact same manner as Luke?

Why it will never be allowed to be as good as Luke’s so why not try a different narrative path.

Isn’t Die Hard 9 still trying to do the same thing as Die Hard 1 how’s that working out for them lol

It's clear that there was always going to be a vocal faction that rejected any new story after ROTJ. Remake? Lame. Something different? Lame. Bringing back original heroes? Lame. Passing the torch to new heroes? Lame. I'm sure Disney recognizes that there is literally nothing they can ever do to appease everyone so they'll just have to settle for releasing critically acclaimed films that earn billions of dollars I guess, lol.

 

[Khev]

See jye’s avatar for hidden message.

Damn you Ridley!

 

[jye4ever]

Wax on Wax off while drunk lol

Speaking of waxing my wife promised me a smooth sushi taco tuesday dinner for this weekend.

No Rose bush for me.

Where dat ho at lol