Plinkett's Episode 3 review!!!!!

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Interesting, so the guys who like Plinkett's review simply don't want to take the time to read a rebuttal of said review.
Why is this, you just want to accept Plinkett's words without any critical thought?

Here's an excerpt taken pretty much randomly, for discussion's sake:

5:54 Plinkett: "Ya might be thinking that it's Anakin, cuz he's like a slave, and saved the day at the end, by accidentally blowing up the starship. But the audience doesn't meet Anakin until 45 minutes into the movie."
Wrong. Anakin shows up at almost exactly 32 minutes into the movie. Anakin's resentment at being regarded as a "slave" and not as "a person," as well as his piloting skills and his dreams of leaving Tatooine are quickly introduced. Stoklasa could've made an honest mistake, or he could've been exaggerating to make his case look stronger than it really is.

Plinkett: "And then the things that are happening around him are pretty much out of his control or understanding. If a protagonist has no concept of what's going on or what's at stake, then there's no real tension or drama. Without that there's no story. So the conclusion is that there isn't one." [very short clips of Anakin being dwarfed by the adult characters, and his eyes shifting around, are shown]
Another biased portrayal of what happened in the movie. It's amazing how casually Stoklasa passes off false statements during his review, which can go undetected because most people aren't looking at everything so critically. He makes false statements about what is a main character's is thinking, and even about his very motivations. I almost let this one go myself, before realizing that it was completely untrue.
Few people will disagree with the idea that Anakin wasn't handled as well as he could have been. But Anakin is clearly one of two main characters. Qui-Gon stands above the rest of the heroes in the beginning and the end, while Anakin is the focus of the middle portion of this movie. That middle portion focuses on Anakin's plight as a slave, the big podrace, and his painful parting of ways with his mother. He's knows what's going on - hell, he's the one who leads the way by stepping up and selflessly offering to race as a way to help the other heroes.
The Naboo crisis was very simple (at least in the way that it appeared to all the heroes). Anakin is told that the other heroes are on a "very important mission" for the Republic early on during the dinner table scene. On the Naboo Royal Starship, Anakin is in the room while Padmé watches the hologram reporting widespread deaths on Naboo. To be fair he might not have been paying attention (he was suffering from the coldness of space at the time), but Padmé goes on to directly about the suffering of the Naboo people. Anakin stands next to the adult heroes during almost every scene on Naboo after that, while they were all planning their battle against the Trade Federation. He knew what was going on, and a few seconds of Anakin moving his head around (taken out of context) does not change that.
 
I read up to the section in which he offers the page-long description of Qui-Gon's character in rebuttal to the scene in which the "people on the street" couldn't come up with an apt description. At that point I realized, the review would be mostly crap.

The author totally missed the point of that bit in Plinkett's review. Part of the reason ANH was so successful, was that the characters were strong archetypes. Luke was the hero, the young adventurer, whose life is irrevocably changed by the journey he embarks on. Obi-Wan, the mentor, the old wizard who guides the hero on his journey. Han, the dashing rogue who assists the hero. These are all standard roles and characters that appear in any epic tale. That bit in the TPM review was showing that the characters in ANH were quick, easy to identify archetypes. The fact that you can describe them in one word is to their benefit. So, offering a page-long description of Qui-Gon totally misses the point. Qui-Gon does not fit into a certain archetype. As much as Lucas tried to mirror the scenes into the PT, and tried to make scenes "rhyme", he totally missed the largest part of what made ANH such a classic tale.

Further, the author puts forth the idea that Qui-Gon Jinn was the main character of TPM, which just doesn't fit arc-wise. Oviously, Qui-Gon was set up to be Obi-Wan's analog, to fill that same role, the mentor that guides the hero . . . but then, the author states that Qui-Gon was the main character, so that doesn't make any sense. On top of that, Qui-Gon is killed in the climax, very few movies are able to pull off the "kill the main character in the climax" plot twist. Qui-Gon died in TPM because it mirrors Obi-Wan's death in ANH, and Obi-Wan's death directly affected Luke, raised the stakes for him and solidified his destiny, and Luke was the main character in ANH. But in TPM, Obi-Wan was NOT the main character, so what purpose did Qui-Gon's death serve??

I could go on with the things that make no sense, character-wise, but suffice to say, Qui-Gon's role is ultimately confusing. . . if he were the main character, as the author puts forth.

Even in the section quoted above me, the author is guilty of the same things he accuses Plinkett of doing. He's taking quotes out of their context and nit-picking them. The argument that Anakin is not the main character because we don't see him until 45 minutes into the movie, and the author disregards this point because that statement is false, because we actually see Anakin 32 minutes into the movie. That's not the point of what Plinkett is saying. How many movies are there that introduce the main character that far into the movie?? It's like me saying "The sky is blue because long ago, the gods threw blue crayons all up into space" and then you telling me "No, the sky is NOT blue. Your explanation is incorrect"

Lastly, even in those first few pages, there were at least 3 or 4 major grammatical errors, which really gave me the impression the author was just an angry ranting fanboy who didn't think his arguments through all the way.
 
Yeah, I read bits of it and I'm not buying it. I honestly don't think I could read the whole thing.

Oh and Redlettermedia responded, sort of, to this "argument",


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The argument that Anakin is not the main character because we don't see him until 45 minutes into the movie, and the author disregards this point because that statement is false, because we actually see Anakin 32 minutes into the movie. That's not the point of what Plinkett is saying. How many movies are there that introduce the main character that far into the movie??

The original Star Wars and King Kong are two that come immediately to mind.
 
The original Star Wars and King Kong are two that come immediately to mind.

Uh.....what? King Kong was NOT the main charcter. In ANY of the movies. Fay Ray was in the original, Jeff Bridges was in the second remake, and Niaomi Watts was the main character in the Jackson remake.

We meet Luke roughly 16 minutes in A New Hope. Compared to 32 minutes for Anakin in TPM.


=
 
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The original Star Wars and King Kong are two that come immediately to mind.

EDIT: well, I see you've already been proven wrong.

The point is, in TPM the plot is already kicked into high gear by the time we get to Tatooine, we already know that the Jedi are here to end the Trade Dispute, and that's pretty much the overarching plot. Anakin is largely irrelevant to that plot introduced right at the beginning of the movie.
 
Qui-Gon was a waste of a character and TPM was a waste of a movie.

Obviously it made sense for Anakin to be the main character but you really can't relate to the bratty kid, throughout the entire series. All of the character just act so unrealistic and their actions and dialogue are all awkward.

TPM needed to start with Obi-Wan meeting Anakin and starting to train him. No Jar-Jar, No Qui-Gon, no Gungans, and none of that treaty/trade BS.
 
One thing that really hit home in the reviews was the use of lightsabers. In the OT when one was ignited, you knew ____ was going down.(was much more exciting) In the PT they just seem to be ignited for the sake of igniting it.(obviously more jedi in the PT, but maybe no need for so much) Little things like that i like in these reviews, cause they big stuff is so obvious no need to hammer it home.
 
EDIT: well, I see you've already been proven wrong.

By CelticP? That'll be the day. :)

Based on how previous conversations have gone in this thread I have a feeling it'd be a waste of time to compare the similarities between Jack/Ann/Kong and Obi-Wan/Padme/Anakin, or to delve into the the fact that not all films need to have a cut and dry protagonist, or end with the same protagonist introduced at the beginning of the film.

On the subject of Kong, the believability of the Anakin/Padme love story would have gone a long way if she got herself into trouble and he had to save her from some horrible creatures, since there was really very little else to endear her to him. It worked in King Kong, Beauty and the Beast, and even Avatar. Hopefully Lucas didn't think he accomplished that with that random little throw-away scene with the caterpillars in Padme's bed.
 
I read up to the section in which he offers the page-long description of Qui-Gon's character in rebuttal to the scene in which the "people on the street" couldn't come up with an apt description. At that point I realized, the review would be mostly crap.

The author totally missed the point of that bit in Plinkett's review. Part of the reason ANH was so successful, was that the characters were strong archetypes. Luke was the hero, the young adventurer, whose life is irrevocably changed by the journey he embarks on. Obi-Wan, the mentor, the old wizard who guides the hero on his journey. Han, the dashing rogue who assists the hero. These are all standard roles and characters that appear in any epic tale. That bit in the TPM review was showing that the characters in ANH were quick, easy to identify archetypes. The fact that you can describe them in one word is to their benefit. So, offering a page-long description of Qui-Gon totally misses the point. Qui-Gon does not fit into a certain archetype. As much as Lucas tried to mirror the scenes into the PT, and tried to make scenes "rhyme", he totally missed the largest part of what made ANH such a classic tale.

Further, the author puts forth the idea that Qui-Gon Jinn was the main character of TPM, which just doesn't fit arc-wise. Oviously, Qui-Gon was set up to be Obi-Wan's analog, to fill that same role, the mentor that guides the hero . . . but then, the author states that Qui-Gon was the main character, so that doesn't make any sense. On top of that, Qui-Gon is killed in the climax, very few movies are able to pull off the "kill the main character in the climax" plot twist. Qui-Gon died in TPM because it mirrors Obi-Wan's death in ANH, and Obi-Wan's death directly affected Luke, raised the stakes for him and solidified his destiny, and Luke was the main character in ANH. But in TPM, Obi-Wan was NOT the main character, so what purpose did Qui-Gon's death serve??

I could go on with the things that make no sense, character-wise, but suffice to say, Qui-Gon's role is ultimately confusing. . . if he were the main character, as the author puts forth.

Even in the section quoted above me, the author is guilty of the same things he accuses Plinkett of doing. He's taking quotes out of their context and nit-picking them. The argument that Anakin is not the main character because we don't see him until 45 minutes into the movie, and the author disregards this point because that statement is false, because we actually see Anakin 32 minutes into the movie. That's not the point of what Plinkett is saying. How many movies are there that introduce the main character that far into the movie?? It's like me saying "The sky is blue because long ago, the gods threw blue crayons all up into space" and then you telling me "No, the sky is NOT blue. Your explanation is incorrect"

Lastly, even in those first few pages, there were at least 3 or 4 major grammatical errors, which really gave me the impression the author was just an angry ranting fanboy who didn't think his arguments through all the way.

I think the point being made in the rebuttal regarding Qui Gon is that he is a deep character and not some throwaway paper thin farse as RLM implies. Hence the long description. But he clearly states that the archetype is the strong and kind father figure.

As for the discussion of who is actually the protagonist, I do believe the strongest candidate is Qui Gon.
 
One thing that really hit home in the reviews was the use of lightsabers. In the OT when one was ignited, you knew ____ was going down.(was much more exciting) In the PT they just seem to be ignited for the sake of igniting it.(obviously more jedi in the PT, but maybe no need for so much) Little things like that i like in these reviews, cause they big stuff is so obvious no need to hammer it home.

Well yeah there was never any tension. The droids were disposable, the clones were disposable, and no one cared either way. The droids were never any matches for the jedi and the jedi were always rather boring. They were merely "keepers of the peace", rightttt.

Out of all the things the PT did it stole away some of the magic and mythology of the OT. The jedi, ruined. Darth vader, ruined. The Force, now midichlorians!? Saber fights, too long, too boring, too much.

The OT had a lot of tension it it's lightsaber fights and they weren't even that grand. After awhile the PT just got ridiculous. It's so dense, because so much crap you don't care about is going on. It's like on big massive video game for 5 year olds.
 
The Phantom Menace lightsaber duel was great though. The actual SETS (as opposed to nothing but CGI backgrounds), the music, the tension, the build up etc. All the Prequel duels after TPM sucked.


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Funnily enough I think Qui-gon was the best thing to come out of the prequels - even though his character was completely and utterly unnecessary and even damaging to the overall story since his inclusion delayed Obi-wan and Anakin having any notable interraction till the second film.

But I did actually like his character and Liam Neeson in the role.
 
I can't believe people really waste time trying to defend the PT, life is way too short to waste it on that crap :lol

Seriously folks, Wato, Jar Jar stepping on poop, Trade Federation, the Love story :lol

I mean c'mon, I understand liking them if you were under 12 when they came out but as an adult.....well....ummm...yeah....no.
 
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I can't believe people really waste time trying to defend the PT, life is way too short to waste it on that crap :lol

Seriously folks, Wato, Jar Jar stepping on poop, Trade Federation, the Love story :lol

Myself, I think it's too short to waste on making up stuff to try to make a perfectly enjoyable movie seem stupid, but hey that's just me... :dunno
 
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