Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[GasparZizou]

You should actually watch it, its worse than even I described

Kojima Productions, Sony Santa Monica, and Rockstar are probably the only devs that make what they want and don’t worry about pandering to the SJW crowd.

Uncharted 4 is filled with it, and the funny things is, Anita was still madd about some of the stuff that made it in even though theres 2 female boss fights in the game and you’re literally not allowed to hit her. Theres even a part where she’s beating up Drake and his brother at the same time and you’re still not allowed to hit her

Thats why I find Ellie to be one of the worst characters in gaming, she’s literally an Anita Sarkeesian wet dream

Oh maaaaaan.

I am watching and can't unsee that last line you wrote

I remember one article I read about a beta tester being asked to leave because he started yelling "NOT YOU TOO NAUGHTY DOG" I can see why he did it.

****.

However, I can't help but to think he was just giving some publicity to that Sarkessian retard. Because I don't really see any SJW pandering in Ellie or TLOU for that matter. Supposedly it shows big time in U4.

But TLOU is still pretty clean imo.

 

[Solidus]

I just checked, and Sarkeesian's feminist video was posted on March 2013, while TLOU was released in June of that year. Unless I'm mistaken and ND went ahead and made last minute changes to TLOU to appease her (which wouldn't make any sense from a development standpoint).

One thing I noticed in Uncharted 1 and 2, is that Elena was always fully clothed, at all times. She doesn't wear any bikini outfits, and even in the opening scene of U1, she has a full scuba suit. But, aside from that, I never actually sensed any kind of strong, subliminal feminist messages from their games. Maybe Naughty Dog and Druckmann were inspired by Sarkeesian (for U4) and some other things. But, to me, they certainly went ahead and made their own stories, without being drawn into social commentary.

 

[pturtle]

Oh maaaaaan.

I am watching and can't unsee that last line you wrote

I remember one article I read about a beta tester being asked to leave because he started yelling "NOT YOU TOO NAUGHTY DOG" I can see why he did it.

****.

However, I can't help but to think he was just giving some publicity to that Sarkessian retard. Because I don't really see any SJW pandering in Ellie or TLOU for that matter. Supposedly it shows big time in U4.

But TLOU is still pretty clean imo.

I don’t know how you can’t see it in Last Of Us, Tes, Ellie taking out almost a whole town of men, Eliie killing a grown man one on one, and Druckmann saids the cover of the game was changed to have Ellie way in front of Joel

Also did you play the left behind DLC? its dripping in SJW sauce

ND is officially ruined in my eyes. They’re great devs but as along as Druckmann is directing and writing these games I can’t see myself really enjoying them now knowing what I know. I think if Anita Sarkeesian ever played Ground Zeroes she would die of a stroke

Also this isn’t even a debate, Druckmann saids he had a vision for Last of Us, but after following Anita Sarkeesian he had an epiphany that inspired him to make the game we got

 

[Solidus]

There's one scene in TLOU, right after Joel and Ellie meet Henry and Sam. Several hunters pull up with a truck, and shoot a woman in cold blood who was pleading for her life. Then at the end, Joel shot Marlene in the head after she was begging him to spare her. I have to say, I'm not really sensing a SWJ message in TLOU...

In U4, I figured Nadine was just a very highly trained soldier who was way out of Drake's and Sam's league. Nate did manage to pull off a punch to her face at the auction house, when he tried to trick her, by saying that the artifact was in his back pocket.

 

[pturtle]

Sure a woman or two dies in Last of Us, its all in the name to save another girl, and sure you’re allowed to hit Nadine in a very special QTE once or twice but Druckmann literally saids he was inspired by Anita while TLOU


Druckmann in a past interview said he was an SJW along with Amu Hennig. These are his words not mine. He literally said he was a Social Justice Warrior, I don’t see how this can be debated.

 

[GasparZizou]

I don’t know how you can’t see it in Last Of Us, Tes, Ellie taking out almost a whole town of men, Eliie killing a grown man one on one, and Druckmann saids the cover of the game was changed to have Ellie way in front of Joel

Same as Joel isn't it? Plus, they die first.

And they made that Ellie boss fight believable, she didn't overpower him, she sneaked around, worn him down and took a chance.

Also did you play the left behind DLC? its dripping in SJW sauce

But this isn't true either, one thing is to have a female character interact with another female character.

And another thing is to force retarded unrealistic "feminist" character archetypes and "anti-tropes" down people's throats.

That DLC is the former, not the latter.

There is a difference between having a decent character be a woman, than forcing a weak character to BE a woman just to fill a quota.

Hell, maybe ND did do it to pander, but they did it without compromising the craftsmanship of the game. When they do that, and supposedly they already did with U4, then I'll complain.

ND is officially ruined in my eyes. They’re great devs but as along as Druckmann is directing and writing these games I can’t see myself really enjoying them now knowing what I know. I think if Anita Sarkeesian ever played Ground Zeroes she would die of a stroke

It could very well be man, but TLOU still looks like the "last" good thing they did.

Also this isn’t even a debate, Druckmann saids he had a vision for Last of Us, but after following Anita Sarkeesian he had an epiphany that inspired him to make the game we got

In that case it's probably the single only good thing to ever come out of this putrid SJW movement.

One thing I'm sure man, TLOU2 will most likely be feminist propaganda extravaganza.

 

[GasparZizou]

Also, if you ask me, the whole epiphany thing, they were deep in production when that Sarkessian debuted her nonsense, back then people still took her seriously, she asked questions people hadn't asked before, it made people think, before they realized how full of **** she was, it looks like he was trying to get in the good side of that rising crowd, because there's no way they could've changed that much in so little time.

 

[Solidus]

I'm just going to say, the quality writing of ND's games was enough to draw me in, that I didn't care about anything else . I guess I can applaud them for doing better job than cooky Kojima who kept Tweeting that there was a deeper meaning behind Quiet's semi-nakedness. Then, we were treated to Quiet waving her butt and bewbs in front of Snake's face in the helicopter, and doing her stripper dance in the rain. Not that I'm complaining, of course.

 

[pturtle]

Same as Joel isn't it? Plus, they die first.

And they made that Ellie boss fight believable, she didn't overpower him, she sneaked around, worn him down and took a chance.


But this isn't true either, one thing is to have a female character interact with another female character.

And another thing is to force retarded unrealistic "feminist" character archetypes and "anti-tropes" down people's throats.

That DLC is the former, not the latter.

There is a difference between having a decent character be a woman, than forcing a weak character to BE a woman just to fill a quota.

Hell, maybe ND did do it to pander, but they did it without compromising the craftsmanship of the game. When they do that, and supposedly they already did with U4, then I'll complain.


It could very well be man, but TLOU still looks like the "last" good thing they did.


In that case it's probably the single only good thing to ever come out of this putrid SJW movement.

One thing I'm sure man, TLOU2 will most likely be feminist propaganda extravaganza.

I agree with you on most of that, my problem is the intent even if they mask it well enough. Tess for me was pretty blatant though, her character was pretty much respected and even feared to a certain extent by most the men earlier on in the game.

Joel was unrealistic killing people too, but at least he was a grown man with years of experience doing what he did. Ellie was a goddamn assassin

I have disagree about the boss fight though, they did do it as real as possible, but I thought it was a little too much, how she escaped from his grip, picked up the machete and started killing him. Druckmann said in one of those videos that that entire chapter was made to make the gamer think Joel is going to save Ellie, but instead he wanted her to save herself. It seems every little detail that went into making that game was influenced by Anita Sarkeesian. Is the game good? Definitely, but I did feel most of its problems came from pandering to SJWs.

I fully expect TLOU 2 to feature a grown Ellie ripping Clickers apart with her barehands

 

[Solidus]

Also, if you ask me, the whole epiphany thing, they were deep in production when that Sarkessian debuted her nonsense, back then people still took her seriously, she asked questions people hadn't asked before, it made people think, before they realized how full of **** she was, it looks like he was trying to get in the good side of that rising crowd, because there's no way they could've changed that much in so little time.

Yeah, that's a good point too. It took a while for people to dig into Sarkeesian's background. She wasn't even a gamer to begin with...

 

[pturtle]

Also, if you ask me, the whole epiphany thing, they were deep in production when that Sarkessian debuted her nonsense, back then people still took her seriously, she asked questions people hadn't asked before, it made people think, before they realized how full of **** she was, it looks like he was trying to get in the good side of that rising crowd, because there's no way they could've changed that much in so little time.

Well, its was also the birth of his daughter before that game I believe that turned him over to the dark side he said, he basically wanted to make a game with female characters his daughter could look up too, which is similar to how Joss Whedon became a SJW. Druckmann was a SJW before that game, but after watching Anita’s videos he became a Super saiyan SJW if that makes sense

Nadine in Uncharted 4 is basically Tess on steroids

 

[GasparZizou]

I agree with you on most of that, my problem is the intent even if they mask it well enough. Tess for me was pretty blatant though, her character was pretty much respected a feared by most men in that game.

Because she was just as ruthless as Joel, even more probably, they showed that in the game.

There's nothing wrong with that, it's not about having prominent female characters, that's not the problem, the problem is pandering, and if this game has some, which I highly doubt it's much, they did a fine job on how they approached it.

Joel was unrealistic killing people too, but at least he was a grown man with years of experience doing what he did. Ellie was a goddamn assassin

But Ellie spent most time under cover, and throwing the occasional rock to distract your attackers, that's all.

I have disagree about the boss fight though, they did do it as real as possible, but I thought it was a little too much who she got from his grip, picked up the machete and started killing him.

But how's that too much? The dude had multiple stab wounds, and the machete was just lying there

I mean, again, she didn't overpower him or anything, she hid, worn him down with stabs, hell even a little good luck with him dropping the machete, I don't see anything wrong there, if anything it's the most realistic thing that happened in the game.

Druckmann said in one of those videos that that entire chapter was made to make the gamer think Joel is going to save Ellie, but instead he wanted her to save herself.

But that's good player expectation management from the devs. That's a very good display of narrative expertise, what's wrong there?

It seems little detail that went into making that game was influenced by Anita Sarkeesian. Is the game good? Definitely, but I did feel most of its problems came from pandering to SJWs.

But narrative/character-wise the game has zero problems, nada, not at all.

The only minor problems come from the derivative gameplay.

 

[GasparZizou]

Well, its was also the birth of his daughter before that game I believe that turned him over to the dark side he said, he basically wanted to make a game with female characters his daughter could look up too, which is similar to how Joss Whedon because an SJW. Druckmann was an SJW before that game, but after watching Anita’s videos he became a Super saiyan SJW if that makes sense

Nadine in Uncharted 4 is basically Tess on steroids

Well, like I said back then SJW wasn't a dirty word, people wore it proudly.

Now people think you're retarded if you claim you're one of those.

 

[FSLAR]

Yeah, that's a good point too. It took a while for people to dig into Sarkeesian's background. She wasn't even a gamer to begin with...

Reasons like this are why I can't take some of this forum seriously on gaming

also pretty sure you could make the same argument that Kojima's fans are similar to SJWs in their own twisted, ungodly way

 

[Solidus]

Reasons like this are why I can't take some of this forum seriously on gaming

also pretty sure you could make the same argument that Kojima's fans are similar to SJWs in their own twisted, ungodly way

Oh yeah, well, where was Kojima's right's when the corporate hacks stripped it away?! I think you're a pseudo intellectual capitalist shill who doesn't respect the fact that a Japanese Twitter-Man should be treated equally as his CEO. Are you anti-Japanese now? I think ure racist. Please tone down your privilege. I identify as anime which is also the same as Japanese, so your dubious implications offends my heritage. I hope Kojima buys Metal Gear and all of gaming. #jesuiskojima

 

[pturtle]

Because she was just as ruthless as Joel, even more probably, they showed that in the game.

There's nothing wrong with that, it's not about having prominent female characters, that's not the problem, the problem is pandering, and if this game has some, which I highly doubt it's much, they did a fine job on how they approached it.


But Ellie spent most time under cover, and throwing the occasional rock to distract your attackers, that's all.


But how's that too much? The dude had multiple stab wounds, and the machete was just lying there

I mean, again, she didn't overpower him or anything, she hid, worn him down with stabs, hell even a little good luck with him dropping the machete, I don't see anything wrong there, if anything it's the most realistic thing that happened in the game.


But that's good player expectation management from the devs. That's a very good display of narrative expertise, what's wrong there?


But narrative/character-wise the game has zero problems, nada, not at all.

The only minor problems come from the derivative gameplay.

Well, like I said back then SJW wasn't a dirty word, people wore it proudly.

Now people think you're retarded if you claim you're one of those.

To me, its like watching Diehard or Lethal Weapon, even in the world those movies take place in its a bit ridiculous and amazing how they kill so many people while being outnumbered, for Last of Us its even worse because the tone is actually more grounded than those movies, suspension of disbelief is usually almost always required for games and movies but imagine if John Mcclane’s teenage daughter just started murdering as many men as he did, it sort of breaks that immersion, at least for me it did. Joel killing people while being outnumbered was fine, but a teenage girl taking almost everyone out by herself was just too much in my opinion.

Ellie taking everyone from undercover is something an Assassin would

A brick is one of the most common distractions Agent 47 uses

I agree with you on the expectation management, I was just trying to show how much of the feministic throught process went into making the game, but certainly that was a good move.

Narrative and character my only problem was Ellie during winter, and everything Tess, but overall I agree, the game doesn’t suffer from these things, but its certainly a game for SJWs, its just done really well. The problem with most SJW directors and writers is that they tend to make their women character infallible, like Rey in Star Wars, I do think Ellie and Tess was a bit of that but it was done well enough where it didn’t ruin most scenes or cause plot holes

Uncharted 4 its much worse though and I only expect it to get worse from here on out.

In terms of writing, I don’t think ND is even remotely close to Kojima’s level, most of their games have very simple plots and themes, but on the technical side they’re one of the best in the industry, the voice acting and motion capture are unmatched especially compared to the Metal Gear series but I think V was definitely improvement in that department and hopefully Kojima’s next game is ever better. ND almost make their games like movies which is amazing, but Uncharted 1-4 and TLOU all shine due to the characters and performances not necessarily the story.

 

[Solidus]

You're thinking too much about it, just sit back and enjoy some good games. You said yourself that ND's games are like movies with great character performances - what else do you want?

The quality of writing for MGS games are all over the place, with some games being better than others. However, it amazes me how the English localizers like Jeremy Blaustein and Agnes Kaku had to rewrite large chunks of their respected scripts without any help from Kojima, or Konami for that matter. If you want to credit memorable lines from MGS 1 and 2 to anyone, the credit should go to the localizers, not Kojima.

 

[GasparZizou]

To me, its like watching Diehard or Lethal Weapon, even in the world those movies take place in its a bit ridiculous and amazing how they kill so many people while being outnumbered, for Last of Us its even worse because the tone is actually more grounded than those movies, suspension of disbelief is usually almost always required for games and movies but imagine if John Mcclane’s teenage daughter just started murdering as many men as he did, it sort of breaks that immersion, at least for me it did. Joel killing people while being outnumbered was fine, but a teenage girl taking almost everyone out by herself was just too much in my opinion.

But that's a false analogy. Ellie doesn't kill neeeeeearly as many people as Joel, not even close.

You also need to separate narrative from gameplay, you can't take the fact that they kill 50 NPCS in 15 minutes literally in the narrative.

Ellie taking everyone from undercover is something an Assassin would

But again, "everyone".

A brick is one of the most common distractions Agent 47 uses

Have a friend drop a brick on your melon, tell me if it's effective or not

I agree with you on the expectation management, I was just trying to show how much of the feministic throught process went into making the game, but certainly that was a good move.

Nah man, like I said, it sounded like he was trying to add a feminist tint to what he already made in the game.

You can tell by his explanation of the ending, it's so ********.

"Yeah that's when she decided she needed to dump Joel to be independent". **** right off

I'll agree with you, these mother****ers are going full legend of Korra from now on.

Narrative and character my only problem was Ellie during winter, and everything Tess, but overall I agree, the game doesn’t suffer from these things, but its certainly a game for SJWs, its just done really well. The problem with most SJW directors and writers is that they tend to make their women character infallible, like Rey in Star Wars, I do think Ellie and Tess was a bit of that but it was done well enough where it didn’t ruin scenes or cause plot holes

But the fact that you don't like those characters doesn't make them a problem, they're not a problem, there's no difference between those characters and Joel.

You are right about infallible SJW characters.

Uncharted 4 its much worse though and I only expect it to get worse from here on out.

Sure looks like it.

In terms of writing, I don’t think ND is even remotely close to Kojima’s level, most of their games have very simple plots and themes, but on the technical side they’re one of the best in the industry, the voice acting and motion capture in their games its probably the best in the industry, especially compared to the Metal Gear series. ND almost make their games like movies which is amazing, but Uncharted 1-4 and TLOU all shine due to the characters and performances.

Maybe not usually and certainly not with the Uncharted series, but with TLOU? Very much so imo.

The fact that they have simple plots isnt' a bad thing when the characters and the dialogue are so endearing.

 

[FSLAR]

Oh yeah, well, where was Kojima's right's when the corporate hacks stripped it away?! I think you're a pseudo intellectual capitalist shill who doesn't respect the fact that a Japanese Twitter-Man should be treated equally as his CEO. Are you anti-Japanese now? I think ure racist. Please tone down your privilege. I identify as anime which is also the same as Japanese, so your dubious implications offends my heritage. I hope Kojima buys Metal Gear and all of gaming. #jesuiskojima

Go back to tumblr you insane, anime-gendered baboon

I still miss the days of Naughty Dog when their stories had moments of utter hilarity, be it Crash Bandicoot antics or Daxter shenanigans

 

[Solidus]

We need another Jak and Daxter game from ND .