Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[Solidus]

Yeah I don't get it either the only thing I know that was changed last minute was Ellie's appearance, but Solidus hit the nail on the head on the problem with feminism today. The other thing is that generally those same feminists who are man-haters want special treatment (e.g. no equal treatment that doesn't backfire on them) and that they want less rights for men or less 'advantages' they may have.

TLoU almost doesn't have feminism (or at least the man hating variant) outside of the implied lesbian relationship with Ellie and Riley. Ellie was disempowered a LOT in the game, and Tess as well, though they were still very strong and empowering women. Joel only had the Winter segment where he was in a near-death state, where Ellie had to take care of him. The only commentary I could see is the 'you do what you can to survive' mentality, which was justified due to the setting.

Precisely! Anyone who wants to survive in the world of TLOU, needs to adapt to it pretty fast. The only other setting which reminds me of TLOU's is The Walking Dead, and many of the women from that show are extremely strong-minded and empowered - more than anything conceived from Naughty Dog. I remember Carol started off very weak with an abusive husband, but after several seasons, she became a walking embodiment of death. Michonne wields a katana; she practically man-handled The Governor and can stand toe-to-toe against any man that she has to fight against. I guess the only difference is, I don't hear people complaining about SWJ themes from TWD like they've been doing with TLOU . That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

I do get that she didn’t as many people as Joel, but I’m saying based on that Winter section it almost made me believe she could have

C'mon man deers =/= armed men with machetes.

I know the game is unrealistic as it is but that was just too much to me, how often in anything remotely serious in entertainment do you see a teenager take out a bunch of grown men like that? I have seen that plenty of times with grown men though.

But too much too you based on what? That she has a small fraction of the action the adults have? That makes no sense

But why is that wrong? She doesn't kill dude after dude in straight fights like Joel, she kills a couple dudes with rat tactics, you're trying waaaay to hard to make an issue of Ellie where there's absolutely none.

Oh okay thats what you meant by the party thing, well in an interview from Neil Druckmann a while back he did say that the kiss wasn’t some platonic thing, and even made a point in saying if in that same scene it were a girl and boy or even a boy and boy would people still think it was just a friendly kiss? But since you don’t give a damn about what he saids I know that doesn’t mean a thing to you

Yeah I remember that interview.

Now you're turning that against me? c'mon man, I thought you were better than that, you're a smart cookie, you've given Singer the benefit of the doubt, you've given Kojima the benefit of the doubt, you've given JOSH TRANK the benefit of the doubt (rightfully so in all those cases, I support you in that btw, even Trank), but you're dead set on making this look like they went out of their way to turn this perfectly narratively functional game, into a statement making, propaganda driven feminist flagship, nothing less than way past halfway in development.

According to me they’re SJW? That came straight from Druckmann. He did an interview a while back and said he and Amy Hennig were SJWs

Do I really have to repeat myself?

Amy Hennig isn't the one who left ND because of U4?

And yea, Last of Us and probably Life is Strange are some of the rare games I’ve seen they make no complaints about, and at least to my eyes they’re definitely aimed at pleasing a certain group of people.

If you think TLOU is pandering, you have no idea, whatsoever, what pandering is.

But I don't blame you, there are people who claimed Fury Road as feminist propaganda. I tell you, those people will claim the weirdest ****.

Yea I found the Ellie and Tess stuff to be excessive, and you didn’t so we can just end this one by agreeing to disagree because I don’t think our opinions are going to change.

But based on literally nothing, I'm sorry man, there's nothing I can concede there.

Did you watch part 3 towards the ending of the video? He saids that he had an agenda before making the game in creating a cool female character that wasn’t overly sexualize for the first time in gaming, I think its right before he speaks about the ending of the game.

I don’t man, I think the guy is a heavy duty SJW, and we normal folk don’t see things the way he does, so his interpretation on the ending which is probably the right one since he wrote the game probably looks different to us

I'm not saying he's not a SJW, perhaps he is, I'm saying if he is, then it's a damn miracle the game turned up so brilliantly balance in characters and story. Nothing short of a miracle.

And if THAT was the concept of equality of most SJW and feminists, I wouldn't have a damn problem with that movement.

And nah man, it's painfully obvious he skewed that ending "interpretation", because it makes zero sense whatsoever... I'm gonna be independent.... a 14 year old girl in a world filled by zombies..... Get the **** out with that nonsense, ND guy

I'm more under the impression, that Naughty Dog was trying to research ways on how they could create a strong female character, that's completely original in personality, compared to other games in the industry. In that sense, they succeeded long before Kojima tried (and failed) with Quiet .

I hadn't thought of that, it makes perfect sense.

Dude researched how to do strong females, and got a little too dazzled with the neoFeminist agenda at a time it wasn't viewed as complete ********, hence the videos we just saw.

Btw, I don't think Kojima was trying at all futhermore, the "you will be ashamed of your words and deeds" went over most people's heads.

 

[FSLAR]

Precisely! Anyone who wants to survive in the world of TLOU, needs to adapt to it pretty fast. The only other setting which reminds me of TLOU's is The Walking Dead, and many of the women from that show are extremely strong-minded and empowered - more than anything conceived from Naughty Dog. I remember Carol started off very weak with an abusive husband, but after several seasons, she became a walking embodiment of death. Michonne wields a katana; she practically man-handled The Governor and can stand toe-to-toe against any man that she has to fight against. I guess the only difference is, I don't hear people complaining about SWJ themes from TWD like they've been doing with TLOU . That doesn't make any sense to me.

Also all of this, though I am surprised TWD is still keeping decently powered females since the show has lost a lot of its charm since the beginning. And on Naughty Dog there's nothing wrong with them not having enough strong females (in TLoU at least) compared to TWD, they're just completely different in what they tried.

The only weak woman was Lori honestly (comparatively), and it did show what happened to anyone weak in the series.

 

[RavenEye]

I really don't see what the problem people have with feminism. I think people have the image of the big dyke "screw men" type thing.

Anita really hasn't effected anything negatively. I do agree she goes a little overboard with some of her arguments but everyone can agree with at least a few of her points.
And even if she was extreme, it takes extreme people or actions to get change made, which normalises.

(Cough cough Malcolm X, Martin Luther)

But they don't screw men?

 

[FSLAR]

But they don't screw men?

There's a lot of issues with that post, namely acting like Anita didn't do anything wrong Anita did everything wrong!

 

[Jameson Rook]

To touch on Zombie's point, nothing's wrong with feminism so as long as the end goal is equality. But, many of the feminists that exist today, are a rabid bunch of man-haters and attention-seeking juveniles, who're quick to accuse others of "sexism" where it doesn't exist. They even deride, threaten, and go out of their way to embarrass other women for wearing scantly-clad clothes (by choice). These are the SWJs that every sane person has a problem with. But, how that applies to TLOU, I have no idea. I don't even care that Druckmann had ties with certain feminists, because TLOU was completely devoid of any sort of social commentary, and it didn't push a neo-feminist agenda in any way. I mean, you'd really have to dissect the game, and look hard with a microscope to find anything wrong with it in that sense. I'm more under the impression, that Naughty Dog was trying to research ways on how they could create a strong female character, that's completely original in personality, compared to other games in the industry. In that sense, they succeeded long before Kojima tried (and failed) with Quiet .

This, this and this.

I never had a problem with ND's writing. Every character in TLOU and Uncharted were believable, they felt like people you could hang out with in real life. I don't know what feminism is honestly, but I know sexism all too well, and Quiet fits the bill to a T. Her character panders towards the juvenile pornography and fans are scrambling to defend her existence. Yes, MGS always featured indecently dressed characters, but at least they had a reason to dress like that (Eva was trying to seduce Snake, Meryl had no bra because she was a POW).

Characters like Naomi, Rose, Olga, Emma and Paramedic all dressed like real women, but by the time MGS4 came out you could have Rose juggling her fun bags by shaking the controller, Naomi having her cleavage exposed with the camera making sure you MUST see them and so forth.

Point of the matter its, sex sells, and Kojima loves sex. Any other developer who could resist that all too easy method of grabbing the gamer's attention as an excuse for not having real characters, gets my vote.

 

[pturtle]

Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

C'mon man deers =/= armed men with machetes.


But too much too you based on what? That she has a small fraction of the action the adults have? That makes no sense

But why is that wrong? She doesn't kill dude after dude in straight fights like Joel, she kills a couple dudes with rat tactics, you're trying waaaay to hard to make an issue of Ellie where there's absolutely none.


Yeah I remember that interview.

Now you're turning that against me? c'mon man, I thought you were better than that, you're a smart cookie, you've given Singer the benefit of the doubt, you've given Kojima the benefit of the doubt, you've given JOSH TRANK the benefit of the doubt (rightfully so in all those cases, I support you in that btw, even Trank), but you're dead set on making this look like they went out of their way to turn this perfectly narratively functional game, into a statement making, propaganda driven feminist flagship, nothing less than way past halfway in development.


Do I really have to repeat myself?

Amy Hennig isn't the one who left ND because of U4?


If you think TLOU is pandering, you have no idea, whatsoever, what pandering is.

But I don't blame you, there are people who claimed Fury Road as feminist propaganda. I tell you, those people will claim the weirdest ****.


But based on literally nothing, I'm sorry man, there's nothing I can concede there.


I'm not saying he's not a SJW, perhaps he is, I'm saying if he is, then it's a damn miracle the game turned up so brilliantly balance in characters and story. Nothing short of a miracle.

And if THAT was the concept of equality of most SJW and feminists, I wouldn't have a damn problem with that movement.

And nah man, it's painfully obvious he skewed that ending "interpretation", because it makes zero sense whatsoever... I'm gonna be independent.... a 14 year old girl in a world filled by zombies..... Get the **** out with that nonsense, ND guy


I hadn't thought of that, it makes perfect sense.

Dude researched how to do strong females, and got a little too dazzled with the neoFeminist agenda at a time it wasn't viewed as complete ********, hence the videos we just saw.

Btw, I don't think Kojima was trying at all futhermore, the "you will be ashamed of your words and deeds" went over most people's heads.

C'mon man deers =/= armed men with machetes.


But too much too you based on what? That she has a small fraction of the action the adults have? That makes no sense

But why is that wrong? She doesn't kill dude after dude in straight fights like Joel, she kills a couple dudes with rat tactics, you're trying waaaay to hard to make an issue of Ellie where there's absolutely none.


Yeah I remember that interview.

Now you're turning that against me? c'mon man, I thought you were better than that, you're a smart cookie, you've given Singer the benefit of the doubt, you've given Kojima the benefit of the doubt, you've given JOSH TRANK the benefit of the doubt (rightfully so in all those cases, I support you in that btw, even Trank), but you're dead set on making this look like they went out of their way to turn this perfectly narratively functional game, into a statement making, propaganda driven feminist flagship, nothing less than way past halfway in development.


Do I really have to repeat myself?

Amy Hennig isn't the one who left ND because of U4?


If you think TLOU is pandering, you have no idea, whatsoever, what pandering is.

But I don't blame you, there are people who claimed Fury Road as feminist propaganda. I tell you, those people will claim the weirdest ****.


But based on literally nothing, I'm sorry man, there's nothing I can concede there.


I'm not saying he's not a SJW, perhaps he is, I'm saying if he is, then it's a damn miracle the game turned up so brilliantly balance in characters and story. Nothing short of a miracle.

And if THAT was the concept of equality of most SJW and feminists, I wouldn't have a damn problem with that movement.

And nah man, it's painfully obvious he skewed that ending "interpretation", because it makes zero sense whatsoever... I'm gonna be independent.... a 14 year old girl in a world filled by zombies..... Get the **** out with that nonsense, ND guy


I hadn't thought of that, it makes perfect sense.

Dude researched how to do strong females, and got a little too dazzled with the neoFeminist agenda at a time it wasn't viewed as complete ********, hence the videos we just saw.

Btw, I don't think Kojima was trying at all futhermore, the "you will be ashamed of your words and deeds" went over most people's heads.

I don't think it's wrong, but it took me out of the game personally. The small fraction in my opinion was a lot for a teenage girl in general, Joel's body count is irrelevant to me, just that specific section where she's going ground from point A to B taking a bunch of grown men that were looking for her out just felt like too much, sure it was already a stretch that Joel was killing 100s of men, but 90% of the time he did have 1 or 2 people helping him out. How many men does Ellie kill in that section of the game? It really didn't seem like a couple, At least 15 right and I don't think that's me even counting the extended stuff from Left Behind. For one section, for a teenage girl to do that it just felt wayyyy too unbelievable and seemed forced in my opinion. That's one of the parts I know a lot of my friends even agreed with me on and they loved the game.

Nah meng I'm not trying to turn anything on you but I think you love the game so much to the point where no matter what I say or the writer/director you just aren't willing to accept any of it. Imagine Kojima made these comments, this board would be going crazy, and imagine I was saying it just a PR stunt? Someone might get angry enough to find out where I live

I gave Trank the benefit of the doubt based on a ton of reports and just watching the movie you can tell it reeks of studio meddling, but I've never given Singer the benefit of the doubt, and Kojima I never needed to because he hasn't failed me yet

You keep saying I'm dead set on making this something it's not, but I'm citing the person who wrote the game. I don't think all of his inspiration came from Anita, and I even said before, I think most of her presence is felt in the marketing and DLC but the man literally said he had an agenda before the game was even made and he even listed a bunch of feminist books that he was inspired by before writing the game, I don't see why it's wrong or crazy for me to believe him.

Yea Amy Hennig wrote the first 3 Uncharted games and then Supposedly was forced out of Uncharted 4.

Well I love Fury Road, and I don't think it is.

See, I think as creator, he wouldn't want to lie about something he wrote and the mindset he had when writing it. I think, thinking this was all for a publicity is just too much, I believe the guy, I just can't see him lying about his best work to date, something that was probably very personal to him just for publicity and possibly alienating a good amount players in the process, which I think he originally said he didn't care about alienating people with all his SJW talk.




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[GasparZizou]

Re: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

I don't think it's wrong, but it took me out of the game personally. The small fraction in my opinion was a lot for a teenage girl in general, Joel's body count is irrelevant to me, just that specific section where's going ground from point A to B just felt like too much for, sure it was already a stretch that Joel was killing 100s of men, but 90% of the time he did have 1 or 2 people helping him out. How many men does Ellie kill in the that section of the game? It really didn't seem like a couple, At least 15 right and I don't think that's me even counting the extended stuff from Left Behind. For one section, for a teenage girl to do that it just felt wayyyy too unbelievable and seemed forced in my opinion. That's one of the parts I know a lot of my friends even agreed with me on and they loved the game.

But that's still within the confines of the gameplay, proportinally speaking, say Joel kills like 200, 300 men in the entire game.

Ellie kills how many, 20 tops?

Narratively speaking she only killed David and that bummed her down big time.

Nah meng I'm not trying to turn anything on you but I think you love the game so much to the point where no matter what I say or the writer/director you just won't aren't willing to accept any of it.

Nah nah nah, it's not blind love, I took what you told me on pure faith of you, you saw my reaction, I believe it 100%.

Then I saw it and analyzed it, and there's much to question, do I believe he had an agenda to purely make this game a stament? Abso****ing lutely not.

But I'll concede you this, maybe he DID sneak some "feminist" stuff in there with Ellie, but if that's what he BELIEVED feminism was at the time, then kudos for him, because that is REAL and TRUE equality, that is having strong characters than don't hit you in the face with "im stronk womyn im stronk womyn im stronk womyn im stronk womyn"

That doesn't even match with the current SJW demands.

If THAT is the worst he can do, I'm not even mad, because that's real equality, but of course that isn't the worst he can do, since I've read about Nadine

So at least TLOU came out alright in that regard.

I have gave Trank the benefit of the doubt based on a ton of reports and just watching the movie you can tell it reeks of studio meddling, but I've never given Singer the benefit of the doubt, and Kojima I never needed to because he hasn't failed me yet

You're telling me Singer or Kojima didn't make you doubt with their latest efforts and made you say "alright, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt with this because you deserve it?".

I'm not calling you out, like I said, I second you on all three, I'm saying ND deserves the benefit of the doubt AT LEAST with TLOU.

Btw, I never did tell you since I didn't got back to the CW thread but I ended up agreeing with you about almost everything on CW, upon further analysis, it really is dumb.

You keep saying I'm dead set on making this something it's not, but I'm citing the person who wrote the game. I don't think all of his inspiration came from Anita, and I even said before, I think most of her presence is felt in the marketing and DLC but the man literally said he had an agenda before the game was even made and he even listed a bunch of feminist books that he was inspired by before writing the game, I don't see why it's wrong for me to believe him.

Alright then, I exaggerated.

But even the agenda BEFORE the game doesn't check out, since he himself said he "almost" made a "misogynistic" game, referring to TLOU, while showing a concept of a female clicker or something... How come you're making a "misogynistic" game, when you already have an "agenda" BEFORE making it.

I'm telling you, the dude was just trying to give some feminist tint to game that didn't really have any, or didn't aim to.

See, I think as creator, he wouldn't want to lie about something he wrote and the mindset he had when writing it. I think, thinking this was all for a publicity is just too much, I believe the guy, I just can't see him lying about his best work to date, something that was probably very personal to him just for publicity and possibly alienating a good amount players in the process, which I think he originally said he didn't care about alienating people with all his SJW talk.

But I've been saying this all too many times, back then, that kind of talk wasn't frowned upon by most people like it is today, that kinda talk wouldn't get you the backlash it does today, proof of that is that most people didn't even remember that.

Back then, that kinda talk could actually get you more support rather than divide your waters.

So, do I believe it was just to gain some support? Yeah I do, if you think about it, the game is pretty masculine as it is, more so than it is "feminist", it's a manly as **** guy, killing hundreds of guys in the most John Mcclane/Arnie ways, all for a little girl.

And what's his motivation? Girl in the fridge trope, how very progressive Anita Sarkessian would approve

That **** is 80's macho entertainment.

 

[Solidus]

This, this and this.

I never had a problem with ND's writing. Every character in TLOU and Uncharted were believable, they felt like people you could hang out with in real life. I don't know what feminism is honestly, but I know sexism all too well, and Quiet fits the bill to a T. Her character panders towards the juvenile pornography and fans are scrambling to defend her existence. Yes, MGS always featured indecently dressed characters, but at least they had a reason to dress like that (Eva was trying to seduce Snake, Meryl had no bra because she was a POW).

Characters like Naomi, Rose, Olga, Emma and Paramedic all dressed like real women, but by the time MGS4 came out you could have Rose juggling her fun bags by shaking the controller, Naomi having her cleavage exposed with the camera making sure you MUST see them and so forth.

Point of the matter its, sex sells, and Kojima loves sex. Any other developer who could resist that all too easy method of grabbing the gamer's attention as an excuse for not having real characters, gets my vote.

Man, that was brilliantly said. The one big selling point of Naughty Dog games, is that all of the characters seem like real-life people, with unique, well thought-out personalities. Who wouldn't want to grab a drink with Sully, Nate and Elena? Speaking of which, the only other characters that made me feel that way, was the cast of Firefly. I also don't think it's a coincidence that so many Whedon fans were drawn like moths to a flame, when it comes to Uncharted.

And to your last point, I think it's amazing how Naughty Dog took the time and resources to create believable characters. I have way more appreciation for a character like Elena, and even Nadine compared to all of the nonsense hype about Quiet that amounted to nothing. I still like Quiet, but the reason for why she had to be semi-nude in a desert-setting made no sense at all. "She has to drink water through her skin". Seriously, Kojima? That's not enough to make me ashamed of my words and deeds... especially my deeds and what I did to Stefanie's pictures, but I'll spare the details of that.

 

[pturtle]

Re: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

But that's still within the confines of the gameplay, proportinally speaking, say Joel kills like 200, 300 men in the entire game.

Ellie kills how many, 20 tops?

Narratively speaking she only killed David and that bummed her down big time.


Nah nah nah, it's not blind love, I took what you told me on pure faith of you, you saw my reaction, I believe it 100%.

Then I saw it and analyzed it, and there's much to question, do I believe he had an agenda to purely make this game a stament? Abso****ing lutely not.

But I'll concede you this, maybe he DID sneak some "feminist" stuff in there with Ellie, but if that's what he BELIEVED feminism was at the time, then kudos for him, because that is REAL and TRUE equality, that is having strong characters than don't hit you in the face with "im stronk womyn im stronk womyn im stronk womyn im stronk womyn"

That doesn't even match with the current SJW demands.

If THAT is the worst he can do, I'm not even mad, because that's real equality, but of course that isn't the worst he can do, since I've read about Nadine

So at least TLOU came out alright in that regard.


You're telling me Singer or Kojima didn't make you doubt with their latest efforts and made you say "alright, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt with this because you deserve it?".

I'm not calling you out, like I said, I second you on all three, I'm saying ND deserves the benefit of the doubt AT LEAST with TLOU.

Btw, I never did tell you since I didn't got back to the CW thread but I ended up agreeing with you about almost everything on CW, upon further analysis, it really is dumb.


Alright then, I exaggerated.

But even the agenda BEFORE the game doesn't check out, since he himself said he "almost" made a "misogynistic" game, referring to TLOU, while showing a concept of a female clicker or something... How come you're making a "misogynistic" game, when you already have an "agenda" BEFORE making it.

I'm telling you, the dude was just trying to give some feminist tint to game that didn't really have any, or didn't aim to.


But I've been saying this all too many times, back then, that kind of talk wasn't frowned upon by most people like it is today, that kinda talk wouldn't get you the backlash it does today, proof of that is that most people didn't even remember that.

Back then, that kinda talk could actually get you more support rather than divide your waters.

So, do I believe it was just to gain some support? Yeah I do, if you think about it, the game is pretty masculine as it is, more so than it is "feminist", it's a manly as **** guy, killing hundreds of guys in the most John Mcclane/Arnie ways, all for a little girl.

And what's his motivation? Girl in the fridge trope, how very progressive Anita Sarkessian would approve

That **** is 80's macho entertainment.

Narratively speaking she only killed David? I don't remember it's been a while since I played the game.

Appreciate the faith man, maybe I need to investigate more, I just never thought somebody would lie about something like this, If he is lying then that's pretty sad. Reading interviews and almost everything from him lately all he seems to talk about is feminism and the whole Anita award show thing was horrible. Again, just imagine if that was Kojima what some people here would be saying.

We gotta get to the bottom of when those original designs were scrapped and to be honest I didn't see what was wrong with those designs at all.

I think Singer deserves all the blame for Apocalypse, but I'm not like most people on the Internet with short term memories. He made one bad superhero movie out of 5, and now people want to call him a hack, and that he needs to stay away from the franchise. There's some stuff in Apocalypse I really enjoyed and I thought were brilliant but as a whole it was a pretty bad movie. Kojima on the other hand hasn't failed me yet but if or when he does I would have no problem admitting it like I did with Singer. Trank I just felt bad for

I actually like CW, it's probably in my top 4 MCU films but I'm just not a fan of those movies, they're not for me, outside of Iron Man 1 I just can't give one of those movies more than an 8, but still it was the best Superhero movie of the year even though I felt BvS and Apocalypse had better, unique, specific scenes.

Alright man thanks, you were becoming hostile for a second there I admit I probably have to investigate more as well, I didn't even think he could be using that for publicity until you brought that up.

The Internet seems to be blowing up about the Nadine thing, I personally think people overacting a bit but after Druckmanns latest comments he might have made thing even worse.


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[GasparZizou]

Re: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

Narratively speaking she only killed David? I don't remember it's been a while since I played the game.

If she had routinely killed as she does in the gameplay, even a fraction of Joel's bodycount, hell, if she ever killed AT ALL, why was she to shaken up by that kill in particular? That's why I keep saying, gameplay element, they have you kill people, because it's a 3rd person shooter.

Appreciate the faith man, maybe I need to investigate more, I just never thought somebody would lie about something like this, If he is lying then that's pretty sad. Reading interviews and almost everything from him lately all he seems to talk about is feminism and the whole Anita award show thing was horrible. Again, just imagine if that was Kojima what some people here would be saying.

I can't imagine Kojima saying anything like that, most Japanese men are entirely different animals, sexism isn't even a thing in their vocabulary, it's just the natural order of things.

Yeah It's pretty sad, but I also think he was a victim of a rising trend back then.

No problem man, I still have faith in you, even when I disagree with you I give credit to your points, which is rare for me to do lately. Which is why I was turned around on CW.

We gotta get to the bottom of when those original designs were scrapped and to be honest I didn't see what was wrong with those designs at all.

Right? Me neither, not even a boob or anything

I think Singer deserves all the blame for Apocalypse, but I'm not like most people on the Internet with short term memories. He made one bad superhero movie out of 5, and now people want to call him a hack, and that he needs to stay away from the franchise. There's some stuff in Apocalypse I really enjoyed and I thought were brilliant but as a whole it was a pretty bad movie. Kojima on the other hand hasn't failed me yet but if or when he does I would have no problem admitting it like I did with Singer. Trank I just felt bad for

Yup, "x-men back to Marvel".

I tell you, the MCU has made everyone lazy as ****. Feed me! Disney! Feed me.

I agree with you on Kojima too.

I actually like CW, it's probably in my top 4 MCU films but I'm just not a fan of those movies, they're not for me, outside of Iron Man 1 I just can't give one of those movies more than an 8, but still it was the best Superhero movie of the year even though I felt BvS and Apocalypse had better, unique, specific scenes.

Yeah, as an MCU film, it's at the top... As an MCU film.

Man, don't get me started on BvS, I think that movie is a ****ing masterpiece, I'm gonna get crucified if I say out loud I would become conceptual Snyder art

Alright man thanks, you were becoming hostile for a second there I admit I probably have to investigate more as well, I didn't even think he could be using that for publicity until you brought that up.

The Internet seems to be blowing up about the Nadine thing, I personally think people overacting a bit but after Druckmanns latest comments he might have made thing even worse.

Man I'm not hostile, I think it's the way I'm writing that's coming across that way, cause I'm filled with caffeine right now My bad if you felt that way. I've been filled with caffeine the entire day, plus used CAPS for EMPHASIS, not yelling I'm like Fry in that 100 cups of coffee episode of Futurama

The last time I felt hostile was in the BvS thread, I swear that movie makes people stupid so I stopped "discussing" the damn thing.

 

[pturtle]

Re: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

If she had routinely killed as she does in the gameplay, even a fraction of Joel's bodycount, hell, if she ever killed AT ALL, why was she to shaken up by that kill in particular? That's why I keep saying, gameplay element, they have you kill people, because it's a 3rd person shooter.


I can't imagine Kojima saying anything like that, most Japanese men are entirely different animals, sexism isn't even a thing in their vocabulary, it's just the natural order of things.

Yeah It's pretty sad, but I also think he was a victim of a rising trend back then.

No problem man, I still have faith in you, even when I disagree with you I give credit to your points, which is rare for me to do lately. Which is why I was turned around on CW.


Right? Me neither, not even a boob or anything


Yup, "x-men back to Marvel".

I tell you, the MCU has made everyone lazy as ****. Feed me! Disney! Feed me.

I agree with you on Kojima too.


Yeah, as an MCU film, it's at the top... As an MCU film.

Man, don't get me started on BvS, I think that movie is a ****ing masterpiece, I'm gonna get crucified if I say out loud I would become conceptual Snyder art


Man I'm not hostile, I think it's the way I'm writing that's coming across that way, cause I'm filled with caffeine right now My bad if you felt that way. I've been filled with caffeine the entire day, plus used CAPS for EMPHASIS, not yelling I'm like Fry in that 100 cups of coffee episode of Futurama

The last time I felt hostile was in the BvS thread, I swear that movie makes people stupid so I stopped "discussing" the damn thing.

I'm just joking, you're one of the few people on SSF that I can actually debate with and not worry about taking things personally

I have to rewatch BvS, I remember enjoying it but I'm a DC newb, there's tons of references and Easter eggs I most likely missed but while I thought CW was a better movie I thought BvS was a lot more memorable. I just feel like years from now, people will still be debating about this movie while CW will be long forgotten


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[GasparZizou]

Re: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

I'm just joking, you're one of the few people on SSF that I can actually debate with and not worry about taking things personally

I have to rewatch BvS, I remember enjoying it but I'm a DC newb, there's tons of references and Easter eggs I most likely missed but while I thought CW was a better movie I thought BvS was a lot more memorable. I just feel like years from now, people will still be debating about this movie while CW will be long forgotten

: ****, we getting all mushy and stuff

It's just a misunderstood and out of time movie, it goes against the stream so I understand the reception, it's stupid that it got such reception but I get it. And that's I won't talk about it but if you're ever interested in diving deeper into the movie I can share some kewl links of analyses.

I hadn't seen such a socially/philosophically relevant cape**** movie since X2.

 

[pturtle]

Re: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

: ****, we getting all mushy and stuff

It's just a misunderstood and out of time movie, it goes against the stream so I understand the reception, it's stupid that it got such reception but I get it. And that's I won't talk about it but if you're ever interested in diving deeper into the movie I can share some kewl links of analyses.

I hadn't seen such a socially/philosophically relevant cape**** movie since X2.

Actually yea man, pm me whatever you got. I plan on buying the ultimate edition bluray when it drops.

Do you think the extra 30 minutes is going to help the movie?

X2 is just one of those movies I enjoy more and more every timeI watch.

 

[Solidus]

Conversation linked in the TLOU thread since you guys carried it on for pages on end. It'd be cool to see what others have to say as well.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

^cool.

Actually yea man, pm me whatever you got. I plan on buying the ultimate edition bluray when it drops.
Do you think the extra 30 minutes is going to help the movie?

X2 is just one of those movies I enjoy more and more every timeI watch.

Supposedly, according to Larry Fong, the cinematographer, it won't change your mind about the movie.

I'm guessing it'll help if the editing was one of your complaints.

I've watched the Nightcrawler scene so many times this week man.

 

[pturtle]

Re: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

^cool.



Supposedly, according to Larry Fong, the cinematographer, it won't change your mind about the movie.

I'm guessing it'll help if the editing was one of your complaints.

I've watched the Nightcrawler scene so many times this week man.

Man just wait until you see Nightcrawler in Apocalypse and how downgraded his action scenes are. Outside a like 2 or 3 scenes in Apocalypse the rest doesn't even look like a Bryan Singer film.

I read that, I also read that Jeremy Irons was crapping on the movie, what's up with that?


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[Snake Plissken]

Kinda old video, but this guy is right on the money aside from the constant F bombs



Just like you said Solidus, he's the only auteur in gaming.

 

[Solidus]

All valid points . I always found it weird (according to reports) that Konami isolated the KojiPro staff, monitored their emails, and micromanaged the heck out of MGS V's development, in the final months before the games release. It seems strange that they'd take such drastic measures when Kojima has enjoyed his autonomy in the company for decades. They probably had a good reason for doing what they did.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Oh yeah I do recall that. What do you expect a multi million dollar company to do if millions are being squandered? I wish the average joe fan would try to read between the lines instead of burning their bras in resentment to them. Konami isn't no angel, but c'mon...