Justice League Movie (Nov 17th, 2017)

[jye4ever]

Wait, what...? "Avengers will be tough to beat" by JL? Isn't Avengers like a 10/10 SW OT/LOTR level movie for you? While you were literally just comparing JL to B&R and AOTC a few days ago? How could it possibly be up in the air as to how Avengers and JL will compare to each other then?

*I* don't love The Avengers like you guys but I know that it's pretty much worshipped here. To me there's this ever so small little cluster of cbm's that are truly great "films" (Nolan trilogy, TWS, I'd probably even concede to Logan being on the list) but then all the other ones are just fluffy popcorn-y movies that I can sometimes geek out about while realizing that they really are just a bunch of silly superhero movies, nothing more.

So for me I have no problem lumping the Avengers, JL, Ragnarok, hell even Schumacher Batman movies all onto the same pile. I mean really does anyone here actually "hate" Batman & Robin? Really despise it as a film? I've always gotten the vibe that it's kind of this lovable disaster, funny and even downright entertaining in its badness (not unlike a Tommy Wiseau picture.) I guess I do elevate certain films for being iconic (STM, B89) or game-changing but otherwise they're all pretty interchangeable depending on my mood at any given time.

So yeah I can easily throw JL on top of the "non-Nolan/TWS" pile on any given day but I'm shocked that you would even consider it after reading your reviews of both the original Avengers and JL itself.

Well I did say tough to beat.

When it comes to an elite category list do you think it should just be based on film quality or should historical significance also play a part in it?

Even though I firmly believe Avengers is a better structed movie than JL with a much better villain i’m still not certain if Avengers historical significance should be a contributing factor to earn it a place on that list.

JL will then be allowed to use that criteria and we don’t want to see JL on anyones elite list now do we lol

 

[jye4ever]

Pa would have snapped flash's neck.

Oh my god lololol

 

[RIDDICK]

"At least Gal Gadot was great."

. . .

She was the worst.
Even Cavill's CG mouth was a better actor.

Spoiler:

 

[GasparZizou]

Damn, you went again? That's nuts, man.

Didn't pay tho.

Dubbed? Do they call Bruce Wayne, Bruno Diaz?

No they don't, they use the original names in English and it sounds awful, I hate dubbed movies.

I was hoping they would call Steppenwolf "El lobo de la estepa" or something cool like that but nope.

 

[SNIKT1950]

"At least Gal Gadot was great."

. . .

She was the worst.
Even Cavill's CG mouth was a better actor.

Spoiler:

Yeah, she's pretty awful.

 

[jye4ever]

Snikt NOOO!

 

[Uncle Bingo]

It is embarrassing that Marvel found more success with a stupid cgi Racoon and cgi Tree than WB did with the JL.

Let me say that again it is worth repeating...

A cgi racoon and cgi tree, A GODDAMN CGI TREE NAMED GROOT, MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN BATMAN SUPERMAN WONDER WOMAN FLASH AND AQUAMAN!!!!

WTF WB.

This really says it all. WTF indeed WB.

 

[Darkseed]

Pa would have snapped flash's neck.

Perhaps in Snydervison Flash did visit Pa
and his neck was snapped. Pa buried Flash in the rockpile explaining the scene in BvS. I love rocks...

 

[jye4ever]

Perhaps in Snydervison Flash did visit Pa
and his neck was snapped. Pa buried Flash in the rockpile explaining the scene in BvS. I love rocks...

That is funny but you want to get trippy they should’ve revealed the grave belonging to Pa Kent himself.

Was that grave supposed to be a foreboding representation of Superman’s death?

Wait what movie are we discussing again.

 

[ironwez20]

"At least Gal Gadot was great."

. . .

She was the worst.
Even Cavill's CG mouth was a better actor.

Spoiler:

Now hold on there bucko. She’s pretty damn hot.

 

[Sassafras]

Cause they expect a certain charm from these heroes thats why. People put these characters up in high regard more than Avengers ever did. See these heroes have been around since the 30s and had multiple cartoons and movies so people expected them to be treated with care but what we've gotten is mediocre BS. TDK is a well loved movie because it took the character of joker and batman in a great and serious direction.

The movie isn't terrible but it should of blown the avengers and certainly Guardians away. Thats how I see it. I see it as Marvel just has more faith in it's characters and puts pride in there work. Hate the MCU or love it its true. WB shows they are still trying to see what works and sadly this may be rebooted. Ashame cause I really like the team but hey.

Bein' an MCU fan and not a DC fan (at the moment) - *in general* 'coz I didn't like GOTG2 some of the time - just gonna agree it's whoever's in charge at WB. It's a personnel problem. The same folks who blew off the Middle Earth fans who were screaming for the unreleased footage. It's having folks in the boardroom (who are faceless for the most part) who make decisions like - like for the last Hobbit movie, they had some WB execs at the world premiere. NOT all the dwarf actors.

Whatever you think of the films, there was a group of actors who started in the first Hobbit movie and should have been together at the last premier. But WB was too cheap. But they sent some of themselves to a world premier. That was cr*p. NO-ONE cares if some WB exec is on the red carpet.

IMO it's *****e these folks own rights to comic book characters too. They don't care about their characters and are completely out of touch with the fan communities. Why were WB execs even evaluating JL before release? Why didn't they hire some respected consultants? Even fans? Why do people who work on balance sheets and have expensive lunches think they know how to evaluate narrative flow, cinematography, etc?

WB is too worried about making money to drop back, make LESS money for a given year, hold off on something like JL until the audiences have seen a solo Aquaman movie or even another Batman movie. INVEST. Give me a reason to care again. Give me a good story. It doesn't have to be perfect. Just plenty of good moments and characters I take to. Take a risk and make a movie that may not do great at the BO, but is critically acclaimed and beloved by a lot of fans if not all.

IMO it's a good thing upcoming BP and IW are (probably) gonna be good, maybe even great films. Because the JL negative reviews/BO is gonna put those films under even more scrutiny e.g. already press re JL talks about "comic book fatigue" re the BO.

I don't think that's true about fatigue yet. But thanx to WB comic book movies will be under more pressure. If there's a fail w. BP or Deadpool the media will be waving the "comic book movie fatigue" flag.

 

[Thomascrown17]

Oh NOW you wanna promote him smh

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

That second poster looks awkward with Sups on the bottom.

I like the first one.

 

[Khev]

Well I did say tough to beat.

I know I just couldn't resist acting shocked that you'd even entertain the thought of comparing JL to Avengers.

When it comes to an elite category list do you think it should just be based on film quality or should historical significance also play a part in it?

Even though I firmly believe Avengers is a better structed movie than JL with a much better villain i’m still not certain if Avengers historical significance should be a contributing factor to earn it a place on that list.

JL will then be allowed to use that criteria and we don’t want to see JL on anyones elite list now do we lol

Yes that's why Avengers will never make it anywhere near the top of any of my cbm lists that are measured on quality. With regard to cinematic significance though it probably is #1. Not even for superheroes or cbm's even because Avengers has even impacted other genres like kaiju and classic horror with regard to "shared universes."

As you know I've never been one to demand that all genre films be TDK or BR 2049. It's an epic treat when they are that awesome and well made from a filmmaking standpoint but since I watch and enjoy all kinds of films from pretty much every genre I'm totally fine with alternating between movies that are:

1. Entertaining and Awesome (ESB, FOTR, BR 2049)

2. Entertaining but Not Awesome (RoboCop 2, Escape from LA, Suicide Squad, JL)

3. And then those films that are Awesome but really only "Entertaining" or watchable when I'm really in the mood for them (this is where most "classic" films would go like Godfather or Casablanca, or things like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Memento, and Boyhood.)

And it seems like so many people on the internet want and even demand that all films fall into Group 1 (entertaining and awesome.) And those are indeed the best movies but *so* much fun can be had with the films in Group 2, hell probably 90% of the entire MCU would fit there. And Group 3 is great but those aren't the films that I geek out about, buy figures for, etc.

So once I realize which group a film falls in (like JL clearly being in the "entertaining but not awesome" category) then I can just sit back and enjoy it on those merits without raging over the fact that it isn't in Group 1. Because at the end of the day few movies are.

 

[a-dev]

Can someone make adjustments to that mouth in the interests of correct advertising?

 

[jye4ever]

I know I just couldn't resist acting shocked that you'd even entertain the thought of comparing JL to Avengers.



Yes that's why Avengers will never make it anywhere near the top of any of my cbm lists that are measured on quality. With regard to cinematic significance though it probably is #1. Not even for superheroes or cbm's even because Avengers has even impacted other genres like kaiju and classic horror with regard to "shared universes."

As you know I've never been one to demand that all genre films be TDK or BR 2049. It's an epic treat when they are that awesome and well made from a filmmaking standpoint but since I watch and enjoy all kinds of films from pretty much every genre I'm totally fine with alternating between movies that are:

1. Entertaining and Awesome (ESB, FOTR, BR 2049)

2. Entertaining but Not Awesome (RoboCop 2, Escape from LA, Suicide Squad, JL)

3. And then those films that are awesome but really only "entertaining" or watchable when I'm really in the mood for them (this is where most "classic" films would go like Godfather or Casablanca, or things like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Memento, and Boyhood.)

And it seems like so many people on the internet want and even demand that all films fall into Group 1 (entertaining and awesome.) And those are indeed the best movies but *so* much fun can be had with the films in Group 2, hell probably 90% of the entire MCU would fit there. And Group 3 is great but those aren't the films that I geek out about, buy figures for, etc.

So once I realize which group a film falls in (like JL clearly being in the "entertaining but not awesome" category) then I can just sit back and enjoy it on those merits without raging over the fact that it isn't in Group 1. Because at the end of the day few movies are.

And where shall we place Rogue One.

 

[Sassafras]

Oh NOW you wanna promote him smh

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Too late. Anyway:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2017/11/20/justice-league-box-office-failure-doj-lawsuit-are-major-trouble-for-dceu/#6300deba4b91

'Justice League' Box Office Failure, DOJ Lawsuit Are Major Trouble For DCEU
So let's sit down and face a bitter but inevitable truth, DC fans: the future of the DCEU is up in the air at this point....Warner has to decide whether to keep spending money to fix an existing damaged brand in hopes they can salvage something to build a better future, or consider this a case of spending good money after bad and just focus on Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, and Batman for the next seven years and then start over fresh with a more solid longterm plan...

A major factor we cannot ignore is this: the AT&T merger with Time-Warner is going to be challenged in court by a (highly politicized, in my opinion) Department of Justice lawsuit, and stock prices for the companies are going to take a big hit. That inevitable lawsuit and the at least temporary delay/collapse of the merger, combined with the catastrophic box office outcome for Justice League, is going to send a loud message to the Warner board of directors and stockholders who are going to look at this and make choices based on business and financial considerations in the face of probable deep drops in their stock value this week and as the situation plays out over a longer period. There's no way they won't want to clean house at the top and stop the bleed, in my opinion. They'll want to reassure investors, take risks off the table, and send a message that they're taking action to protect IP and investments.

Warner is facing a much bigger problem and struggle to come with the merger battle, so they can't afford an additional major crisis with major IP and film projects. They have to recognize the DCEU has not been popular enough or successful enough, and that aside from Wonder Woman the major associated brands and the ability to capitalize on them with merchandising has taken a big hit...

Ben Affleck was frankly on his way out the door anyway, and Batman will probably get a soft or hard reboot now -- I've resisted speaking too much about this publicly, but behind the scenes most sources have consistently stated he and Warner were just waiting until after Justice League to make an announcement, so the box office situation will probably expedite that process for them (which, I would guess, will actually be a relief for Affleck and Warner, since I imagine there's been some stress and frustration for them in trying to maintain vagueness about everything for the past several months).

IMO they should just sell the character rights or rent them or whatever. Do Sony/Spidey deal. Let someone else take a crack at the DC characters. Doesn't have to be Marvel. Universal's horror universe is a fail; they would probably be happy to try with DC characters.

 

[Khev]

And where shall we place Rogue One.

I think we both know the answer to that.

Of course there's also Group #4 (Neither entertaining nor awesome) where the AOTC's and Trank F4's can burn for eternity, lol.

 

[YoNoSe]

Now hold on there bucko. She’s pretty damn hot.

That meme also happens to convey Spacey’s interest in hot ladies. And grownups.

 

[GasparZizou]

Can someone make adjustments to that mouth in the interests of correct advertising?

Best I could do, I'm not jye.