DC Joker Movie (Non-DCEU)

[Wor-Gar]

Some people are so scared of this Joker because he is so different. He doesn't laugh right, he doesn't look right, he's not clever, he's not this or that...

He's... Wachowski different.

 

[JAWS]

So Jye.. Where are you exactly with this Joker movie??

I mean you said it was better then EG as a stand alone movie.. Or something along those lines..

Did you warm up to it?

 

[JAWS]

You know I concider myelf pretty political and keep up with things..


But I have never heard the term Incel until critics started complaing about this film.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Some people are so scared of this Joker because he is so different. He doesn't laugh right, he doesn't look right, he's not clever, he's not this or that...

He's... Wachowski different.

I think he's the coolest Joker. His walk, the way he smokes, even his dancing without music (which is nuts when you consider that even Jack Joker had a radio with him at all times playing music to make sense of his dancing) are cool. His entrance on the Murray show was fabulous too.

 

[jye4ever]

So Jye.. Where are you exactly with this Joker movie??

I mean you said it was better then EG as a stand alone movie.. Or something along those lines..

Did you warm up to it?

Still need to see it a 2nd time.

I was bored at points, did not like all the external forces he complained about (1%, baby momma, medicaid cuts, bullying).

He?s really a wimp lol

That being said Phoenix is a vey gifted individual and there were some great moments with great visual storytelling.

As a standalone one and done movie YES it is a better movie than EG.

But since EG is attached to 22 other movies it is holistically superior and historic in every way imaginable.

I think he's the coolest Joker. His walk, the way he smokes, even his dancing without music (which is nuts when you consider that even Jack Joker had a radio with him at all times playing music to make sense of his dancing) are cool. His entrance on the Murray show was fabulous too.

TDK Joker would wipe the floor with this cool smoking dancing cat the second he starts laughing uncontrollably.

JP Joker is not scary he is just a sad husk of loose skin.


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[jye4ever]

Everyone who was to scared to go see it opening weekend will go the second weekend. No surprise to me it is having a strong second weekend if you add that to very good worth of mouth.

Very true I agree.

Hell I was looking over my shoulder last weekend lol


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[Khev]

The midget scene.
The stairs scene.
The curtain opening at F Murray stage.

Those 3 scenes alone but especially the midget scene makes his performance and scene build up worthy of super high praise.

Even though I have problems with this movie specifically being connected to Joker there is no denying that those 3 scenes are some of the best to grace genre screens.

Yes my three favorite scenes and they all occur pretty close together and all towards the end of the film. EG and Joker, two great films with two great endings but endings that couldn't be more different from one another, lol.

This film grounded the character in a way we've never seen before. His "Joker" name is what Muhrayyy originally called him as an insult, his over the top laugh is a medical condition or he fakes laughs to fit in. His suit, while flashy, it's not unusual for the time period, and the green hair and make up, comes from the masks that the protesters were wearing and the outfit he used to wear as a clown. He just embodying the image of the movement in Gotham. Good stuff.

Yes I've been thinking about how this is the single most "realistic" film meaning no fantasy elements at all out of all superhero films. Even Unbreakable and Split had fantasy elements and all three Nolan films had physics defying scenarios but not once did Joker cross into that territory. It's as "realistic" as any Scorsese flick, pretty awesome to see with such an iconic character. I know there was the one reference to super rats but they could have still been large rats that might exist in real life.

Joker shares more in common with Birdman than anything else from DC or Marvel.

Oh I don't agree there.. Nick Fury showing up was a signal to what was to come.. I mean when he spoke of the Avengers Imitative and it was Sam Jackson... It did not seem like lip service to me at all. It was an announcement of MCU's plan. I never once thought it was lip service. The film is still IMO one of Marvels best..

Oh yes IM1 is a top shelf MCU flick. But my point was that without any of the other films it's still just a superhero origin movie that mentions but doesn't show any other heroes. As you said it was a "signal of what was to come" but if IM bombed there'd be no "to come" past TIH, lol. I can call Terminator: Genysis "the beginning of a new universe, with a teaser at the end of what was to come" too.

Aw come on... That's not true.. If it was then IW would not still rank as one of my favs.. Avengers is the only Marvel film that has Hulk in it that is in my top 4 perfect marvel movies. with IW, TWS, CW being the other three. Hell for a long time TWS was my fav and Avengers was number two but repeat viewings of both puts Avengers at number one for me.

I knew you'd love me dismissing your rankings as based on nothing but how Hulk was portrayed on screen. Yes I know that doesn't trump all but I couldn't resist heh heh.

Hulk was not the worst in AOU but that still ranks as one of my bottom three.

I do love the Hulk movie because I think it was a well done Hulk film and far better then many give it credit for. It was very true to the character and had some great action. Had the film been more in line with Marvels other movies and Ed Norton stuck around or Ruffalo was cast to begin with, I think people would think back on it more fondly.

So of course Hulk is going to rank high and be a factor in what I see as the best comic book year.

If you remember I revisited TIH last year for the first time in quite a few years and really enjoyed it. And yeah too bad that it will always feel somewhat disconnected from the Ruffalo years. At least they had William Hurt as a common link.

I think TDK is still the best Comic book movie of all time. It still holds up to repeat viewings.. I liked Joker but its not a film that I cant wait to see again.

TDK is great but like I said I put BB slightly above it. The "best" cbms for me are BB, TDK, Logan, EG, and now Joker. So two different Jokers cracking the top five is a real credit to WB. Preference-wise I'd say I still like the Cap trilogy + IW/EG the best but there's no denying the quality of those others I mentioned.

 

[e30ernest]

Very true I agree.

Hell I was looking over my shoulder last weekend lol


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I don't get it... Why would people be afraid to watch on opening weekend? Is it an American thing (no offense meant, just genuinely curious)?

 

[azurepred]

I don't get it... Why would people be afraid to watch on opening weekend? Is it an American thing (no offense meant, just genuinely curious)?

you didn't here about the mass shooting during the TDK days in Colorado I believe? I guess anywhere in the US now, you always have to be aware of your surroundings, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't extra observant when I saw this tonight.

 

[azurepred]

As soon as the movie was over it reminded me of Taxi Driver and I didnt really enjoy Taxi Driver, I thought both it and Joker were boring. JP gave an awesome performance though

Kind of how I felt too. I agree it was extremely well acted, but too depressing to me. Doubt I will see it again anytime soon. Arthur seemed more like a Joker poser and just a mentally unstable person that I felt really sorry for.

 

[Wor-Gar]

a mentally unstable person that I felt really sorry for.

Isn't that the Joker?

I guess it depends what era you "discovered" the Joker in that dictates which one you like.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I never felt sorry for Romero, Nicholson, Hamill or Ledger. I felt bad for Arthur, even at the end after all the bad things that he did, because he had no one. He never had a chance. He tried, but everyone and everything around him failed him. I can totally see why Batman wouldn't kill this Joker and instead try to help him. I've seen Batman do that before, but until now, I didn't get why he kept Joker alive and around.

 

[jye4ever]

Hmmm there was one particular scene that actually crossed the line into fantastical.

When he got hit by the car french connection style went up on the windshield hit the ground and was still able to just brush it off and keep running.

Granted it?s not TDK level of absurdity when Batman and Rachel fell from a skyscraper and she just giggled after landing from a 600 feet fall because Batman?s hug was enough to save her.

Also fantastical was how fast he ran with those huge clown shoes that had to be a hallucination lol




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[jye4ever]

WB looks poised to keep the high quality from Joker moving forward...

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[Khev]

All I know is that there now exists a movie about Gotham City, Joker, Bruce Wayne, Alfred, etc., that requires no suspension of disbelief. That right there is crazy, lol.

That means that when Bruce grows up he has to play by the same rules. No cheating with "magic" Batman tech, he'll have to operate as a rich martial artist with mid-90's real world tech (assuming he's 10 in 1981 and then starts fighting crime at age 25 or so.) I could see Arthur being a real problem for him.

 

[Khev]

Hmmm there was one particular scene that actually crossed the line into fantastical.

When he got hit by the car french connection style went up on the windshield hit the ground and was still able to just brush it off and keep running.

We were still watching a real stunt with a real guy. And if the same stuntman was able to keep running then I could allow a guy who'd been toughened by beatings his whole life being able to do the same.

Granted it?s not TDK level of absurdity when Batman and Rachel fell from a skyscraper and she just giggled after landing from a 600 feet fall because Batman?s hug was enough to save her.

Also fantastical was how fast he ran with those huge clown shoes that had to be a hallucination lol

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

All I know is that there now exists a movie about Gotham City, Joker, Bruce Wayne, Alfred, etc., that requires no suspension of disbelief with regard to the feasibility of the plot. That right there is crazy, lol.

That means that when Bruce grows up he has to play by the same rules. No cheating with "magic" Batman tech, he'll have to operate as a rich martial artist with mid-90's real world tech (assuming he's 10 in 1981 and then starts fighting crime at age 25 or so.) I could see Arthur being a real problem for him.

A real world Batman would be hilariously in trouble, not only breaking the law himself, but just getting around the city is almost impossible. He'll be stuck in traffic or something.

Now, since this is a realistic else world storyline, I could see this Batman using a hand gun with a hip holster. No grapple gun or swinging around because that's fake, and the cape can't glide either. He can wear Kevlar under a suit that isn't rubber.

The movie would have to acknowledge the absurdity of Batman, in a real world setting. It would make sense as to why someone like Joker would be "attracted" to another crazy person who is fighting the system in a different way.

Still, I just can't picture any batsuit design looking believable in a real world setting.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Also fantastical was how fast he ran with those huge clown shoes that had to be a hallucination lol

Phoenix will either win an Oscar or an Olympic gold medal for track and field.

 

[Khev]

A real world Batman would be hilariously in trouble, not only breaking the law himself, but just getting around the city is almost impossible. He'll be stuck in traffic or something.

Now, since this is a realistic else world storyline, I could see this Batman using a hand gun with a hip holster. No grapple gun or swinging around because that's fake, and the cape can't glide either. He can wear Kevlar under a suit that isn't rubber.

The movie would have to acknowledge the absurdity of Batman, in a real world setting. It would make sense as to why someone like Joker would be "attracted" to another crazy person who is fighting the system in a different way.

Still, I just can't picture any batsuit design looking believable in a real world setting.

You're in Orlando right? Back when we were living outside of Tampa (about 10 years back) there was a guy who'd go downtown with a Batman cape and cowl, drive around, I think he even had a motorcycle. People got a kick out of him but he was kind of a joke. He didn't fight crime, just made the rounds to amuse people. He finally ended up getting stopped by the cops and publicly unmasked due to an old KKK law that said no masks in the city, lol.

 

[azurepred]

Isn't that the Joker?

I guess it depends what era you "discovered" the Joker in that dictates which one you like.

I've only ever been exposed to Joker through film and TV, so this is the first time I just felt sorry for a version of Joker. In some form or fashion, I felt the Joker must at least be cunning and highly manipulative to be able to have the pull that he normally has. I just could never picture Arthur to be any kind of threat to whatever Batman might exist and that's why he feels more like a character posing as a "real" Joker. Arthur is very emotionally and physically ( though he walks off being hit by a car easily) fragile, while still being very crazy. His weaknesses are very apparent.