J.J. Abrams' Star Trek Into Darkness

[Zen Mutiny]

They should have just left Kahn alone and do something completely different. They had an entire universe to play with, and they went back to the same villain for the same part two of the movie series. Talk about unoriginal.

That's what happens when you hand the Star Trek franchise over to hipsters whose Trek knowledge consists solely of this:

 

[Spartan Rex]

So why did Khan beam him self to Kronos?
Because he thought that would put him beyond the reach of the Federation?
It played right into Marcus' hands for all out war.
Why would Khan give him what he wants?
Why did Marcus hand over all 72 cryogenic torpedoes to the Enterprise?
Maybe a few but 72 for one guy?
That wouldn't raise any Vulcan eye brows would it?

Did anyone catch the reference to Harry Mudds ship?
How can the time line be so screwed up that tribbles,Gorns and Mudd have already been discovered before the 5 year mission?

 

[Fritz]

...Did anyone catch the reference to Harry Mudds ship?
How can the time line be so screwed up that tribbles,Gorns and Mudd have already been discovered before the 5 year mission?

Unfortunately I did, definitely wasn't a fan of this, especially the Gorn reference. But overall it was such a short mention (other than the tribble which played a major part in the movie) I still enjoyed the movie overall.

 

[shockwave]

So why did Khan beam him self to Kronos?
Because he thought that would put him beyond the reach of the Federation?
It played right into Marcus' hands for all out war.
Why would Khan give him what he wants?
Why did Marcus hand over all 72 cryogenic torpedoes to the Enterprise?
Maybe a few but 72 for one guy?
That wouldn't raise any Vulcan eye brows would it?

Did anyone catch the reference to Harry Mudds ship?
How can the time line be so screwed up that tribbles,Gorns and Mudd have already been discovered before the 5 year mission?

Also a Cadassian drink (the bar scene) was mentioned (I believe) from the 2009 movie.

 

[a-dev]

Keeping up with the Cardassians. I loved those guys. Dukat and Demarr (sp?) were brilliant. Of course if they appeared in the new continuity they'd probably look inexplicably different.

 

[karamazov80]

Gul Dukat > all other Star Trek villains combined

 

[Kamandi]

In the prequel comic (writen by Orci) Mudd was a chick.

In TOS he was a man in his forties so Spocks alternate timeline beginning ~28 years ago doesn't hold up. Mudd predates the "butterfly effect".

 

[karamazov80]

According to this, that was supposed to be his daughter:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Mudd

 

[Spartan Rex]

So Kirk banged Chapel as well...

 

[Zen Mutiny]

In the prequel comic (writen by Orci) Mudd was a chick.

In TOS he was a man in his forties so Spocks alternate timeline beginning ~28 years ago doesn't hold up. Mudd predates the "butterfly effect".

I've said it before and I'll say it again. JJ and crew obviously don't want to be bogged down by an obligation to an existing continuity. If they really wanted to gain the respect of Trekkers/Trekkies, they would establish the new 'timeline' as an already existing alternate universe that Spock and Nero joined as it was already in progress, rather than a new 'splinter' timeline that was created upon their arrival. It would free them up from having to pay attention to the small details of existing continuity (which they obviously have no interest in), and it would justify any differences that don't jibe with pre-TOS material like Enterprise. It's a one-size-fits-all solution, that, theoretically, should make nearly everyone happy, or at least make more sense than what they're presenting now.

 

[Kamandi]

... If they really wanted to gain the respect of Trekkers/Trekkies, they would establish the new 'timeline' as an already existing alternate universe that Spock and Nero joined as it was already in progress .... It would free them up from having to pay attention to the small details of existing continuity (which they obviously have no interest in)

Exactly. Not only have JJ and his writers broken past continuity but future continuity as well. How many future events are screwed because of JJ? It's very unlikely TNG era 24th century exists going forward from this point. Since Space Seed doesn't happen the events of STII:TWOK, STIII:TSFS, and STIV:TVH are thrown into disarray. Does the humpback whale ship destroy the Earth ~20 years after the end of Into Darkness?

 

[Zen Mutiny]

Exactly. Not only have JJ and his writers broken past continuity but future continuity as well. How many future events are screwed because of JJ? It's very unlikely TNG era 24th century exists going forward from this point. Since Space Seed doesn't happen the events of STII:TWOK, STIII:TSFS, and STIV:TVH are thrown into disarray. Does the humpback whale ship destroy the Earth ~20 years after the end of Into Darkness?

Future continuity doesn't matter, whether it's a new timeline or alternate universe. The whole point of doing a reboot it to tell new stories, not rehash the same ones (something they seem to have forgotten). This timeline doesn't have to go the same places as the pre-existing Star Trek universe. It can go new places and be entirely justified, or at least retell old events in a new way (with less blatantly obvious fanservice, hopefully). This doesn't affect the existing Star Trek universe, it still exists, as an alternate universe to this one.

 

[Spartan Rex]

So they could still do a Gary Mitchell movie?

 

[Zen Mutiny]

So they could still do a Gary Mitchell movie?

I don't see why not. That might be a little too obscure for the current writers' shallow understanding of Trek, though.

 

[Spartan Rex]

Well they were bugged to death and the director as well about who the bad guy was during the filming of the last one.
Is it Gary or Khan?
Khan or Gary?
Gary or Khan?
They know who he is now.

 

[Zen Mutiny]

Well they were bugged to death and the director as well about who the bad guy was during the filming of the last one.
Is it Gary or Khan?
Khan or Gary?
Gary or Khan?
They know who he is now.

I'm betting they'll go with Klingons next, or possibly Borg or Q. Maybe even an appearance by Ferengi, Romulans, or Cardassians. I doubt they'll risk doing anything that isn't well-known already.

I guess if they were going with well-known tropes of the Original Series, we may even get lucky enough to see Gorn or Tholians.

 

[a-dev]

Future continuity doesn't matter, whether it's a new timeline or alternate universe. The whole point of doing a reboot it to tell new stories, not rehash the same ones (something they seem to have forgotten). This timeline doesn't have to go the same places as the pre-existing Star Trek universe. It can go new places and be entirely justified, or at least retell old events in a new way (with less blatantly obvious fanservice, hopefully). This doesn't affect the existing Star Trek universe, it still exists, as an alternate universe to this one.

True but even in the new timeline tangent shouldn't V'ger and the alien probe from Star Trek IV still be on the way? Surely they should not have been effected by the events of the 09 film. Whether new films should be based around those is a different matter (and no they shouldn't)

 

[Zen Mutiny]

True but even in the new timeline tangent shouldn't V'ger and the alien probe from Star Trek IV still be on the way? Surely they should not have been effected by the events of the 09 film. Whether new films should be based around those is a different matter (and no they shouldn't)

Unless Nero destroyed/deterred them in some way. Butterfly effect and all that... Just as an example, Nero's presence could have put many factions on a high military alert, also resulting in the destruction or deterrence of either of those probes. Or, any number of other factors could have affected them in any other untold number of ways.

Or, if it's an alternate universe rather than a divergent timeline, anything goes. They could have never existed in the first place, or entirely different events from existing Trek canon could have occurred even prior to Nero's arrival. Personally, I prefer the latter. It would give the writers much more freedom in restructuring the Star Trek universe. for new fans and new stories.

 

[a-dev]

Unless Nero destroyed/deterred them in some way. Butterfly effect and all that... Just as an example, Nero's presence could have put many factions on a high military alert, also resulting in the destruction or deterrence of either of those probes. Or, any number of other factors could have affected them in any other untold number of ways.

Or, if it's an alternate universe rather than a divergent timeline, anything goes. They could have never existed in the first place, or entirely different events from existing Trek canon could have occurred even prior to Nero's arrival. Personally, I prefer the latter. It would give the writers much more freedom in restructuring the Star Trek universe. for new fans and new stories.

Well in the former case the probes should still be many years away, when Kirk is middle-aged. And it didn't seem like there was any way to destroy either probe except to appease them.

I too would prefer if we were talking about an alternate (aka mirror?) universe in the new Trek. You could forgive at least some of the **** ups. Alas I'm quite sure they intend it as just a timeline change. There remains the question though of why old Spock didn't even consider undoing the timeline damage by Nero - especially when that damage consisted of the destruction of Vulcan and when that version of Spock himself pioneered a method of time travel to save earth in Star Trek IV. It makes no sense that he'd just leave it all to play out as it did.

 

[Zen Mutiny]

Well in the former case the probes should still be many years away, when Kirk is middle-aged. And it didn't seem like there was any way to destroy either probe except to appease them.

I too would prefer if we were talking about an alternate (aka mirror?) universe in the new Trek. You could forgive at least some of the **** ups. Alas I'm quite sure they intend it as just a timeline change. There remains the question though of why old Spock didn't even consider undoing the timeline damage by Nero - especially when that damage consisted of the destruction of Vulcan and when that version of Spock himself pioneered a method of time travel to save earth in Star Trek IV. It makes no sense that he'd just leave it all to play out as it did.

It's not damage if it resulted in a splinter timeline, as it is explained in Trek 09. The original timeline still exists, apart from this one. The only thing for Spock to do would be to go back home. Maybe he just decided that this is where he's needed, with this universe's Vulcans needing a guiding hand in their efforts to resettle and repopulate.