Would you buy a HOT TOYS George Clooney Batman?

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Would you buy a Hot Toys George Clooney as Batman?

  • Yes, to show my support!

    Votes: 37 23.9%
  • Hell no!!! I don't need a Keaton THAT bad...

    Votes: 118 76.1%

  • Total voters
    155
So you're saying the addition of Gore, and lewd comments makes it more "mature" ? YOu probobly thought that Hostle desereved best picture also, right?

You seem as adamant to prove it to be the better, more "artsy" film as some people are about proving the superiority of certin 1/6 toymakers over another. Look mate, If we think it's crap, but you like it, that's great. i you think the one we like is crap, it's also great. you know why? we all like what we like. You said it yourself, burtons films were not batman movies. As a kid, yes, it was awesome, but the more I grow, the more i see how... well... NOt a batman film it was.


Side note, I take great offense to your downplaying of Martial Arts, I would be VERY careful how you treat and talk about that aspect of many peoples lives. While MOST Martial arts teach defence, there are some that Teach the best defence is leaving your opponent drowning in his own blood. Those people tend to have a VERY short fuse. Mouthing off like that gets people in trouble. ( Please note, this is not a threat, this is a Genuine warning, I've seen people say the wrong thing to the wrong person and end up in a hospital with a crushed ribcage, it's not pretty. Do be Careful)
 
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Realism, realism, there is nothing realistic about Batman Begins, what the hell is so realistic about it?

The fact that Bruce Wayne doesn't just magically happen to become Batman. The storyline started with the 1989 film portrays Wayne as having all sorts of engineering skills and the likes to create all of his Batman gear, including the Batmobile, all on his own.

At least with Begins, there are believable routes to it all. His gear is designed by Wayne Enterprises for applications and he takes them an cannibalizes them on a basic level to his own needs. He found a teacher to help him hone his fighting skills. The route to the Batcave is more realistic to have the house built with a hidden passageway from a realistic scenario.

If you think that's top notch please watch some more cinema instead of popcorn flicks.

Not a very good argument in this discussion; the first 4 Batman movies were nothing but popcorn flicks. The original 1989 film had a pretty good story, but after that the stories got weaker and weaker along with everything else. Begins feels more intellectual than it's predecessors.

Returns especially was made for a mature audience look at the extras on the dvd, Begins however was actually made for kiddies.

Just to show you why parents were so shocked back in 92, they were expecthing a kiddie flick like Begins. Not the dark movie returns is:

That's the thing, Returns is dark and bad for a kid, but as adult the darkness is wrapped in a cartoony shell. The nose biting to an adult is rediculous, and cats licking wounds doesn't seem all that odd to me. I don't think Begins was a dark film though, nor does it have to be. I think it felt more mature as a movie about a hero with the type of story arc Batman has. I think the Begins way is more sympathetic than Keaton's, you get a better sense of the anguish Bruce felt over his parents death in Begins.


Begins is sooo contemporary and will be forgotten very soon because it doesn't bring anything unique.

Begins will be as enduring as the 1989 film. The endurance of the 1989 film is fandom and I'd wager Begins found the same ammount or more favor with Batman fans than the 1989 film.
 
So in your logic adding something different, or giving ones own view of the character equals not taking the character seriously? Great logic:duh.

I think Keaton has a way more impressive fighting style. He trained kickboxing and that's one of those fighting styles that actually works in real life.

The suit looks like ^^^^ and that doesn't matter? We are talking about a superhero here. Also recently i read an article about a comic book artist who also did batman stories. He didn't think Batman begins's batman character was that true to the comics. Will try to find the interview.

Even if it were more accurate it is not even close to being the better film, in fact Batman Begins is a bad film when looking at basic cinematic values. The script, the acting, cinematography, art direction, the score etc.. are all veryyyy mediocre.

Ok, way to be negative as Hell. I was just expressing my opinion, and all the while trying to show tolerance towards your opinion. But I see that doesn't have an effect on you.

I never said that Batman 89 was a bad film, in fact it will always be one of my favorites. But, it is not accurate to the comics. Batman Begins uses Batman: Year One, The Long Halloween, and The Man Who Falls as reference to create a more true to the comics story.

The cinematography and lighting in Begins was not atrocious at all, I don't see where you are getting that. Yes, Burton has a style all his own and Nolan is different. Every artist is different. A Les Walker Batman will be different than a Dark Artist Batman. That's how art works. :banghead

And trying to say that Kickboxing is a fighting style that works as opposed to Keysi, that "doesn't work".... You don't know a thing about fighting. Here is a description of that style that you say is "ineffective"..

The Keysi Fighting Method, also known as Keysi or KFM, is based on a series of tight, controlled, efficient movements. An evolving discipline that was founded only 20 years ago, Keysi is an intuitive, low-grounded fighting method that requires superior leg and upper body strength, with a strong emphasis on mental focus and awareness. Unlike other martial arts developed for sport, KFM lends itself to combat in close quarters and can be applied to fighting in any environment, against multiple attackers from all directions.

“The Keysi Fighting Method is a very intuitive kind of martial art, but also very, very brutal,” Bale relates. “It’s all about going for the break straightaway. It’s quite instinctive and it adapts to many different situations
.

I understand that you have an opinion here, and I get where you are coming from. But to say that Begins was a bad film and that everything was bad about it, that's going a little far. That's all I am saying.

Bale > Keaton..... Batman Begins > Batman 89... :D
 
:lecture:lecture:lecture:lecture:lecture
Ok, way to be negative as Hell. I was just expressing my opinion, and all the while trying to show tolerance towards your opinion. But I see that doesn't have an effect on you.

I never said that Batman 89 was a bad film, in fact it will always be one of my favorites. But, it is not accurate to the comics. Batman Begins uses Batman: Year One, The Long Halloween, and The Man Who Falls as reference to create a more true to the comics story.

The cinematography and lighting in Begins was not atrocious at all, I don't see where you are getting that. Yes, Burton has a style all his own and Nolan is different. Every artist is different. A Les Walker Batman will be different than a Dark Artist Batman. That's how art works. :banghead

And trying to say that Kickboxing is a fighting style that works as opposed to Keysi, that "doesn't work".... You don't know a thing about fighting. Here is a description of that style that you say is "ineffective"..

The Keysi Fighting Method, also known as Keysi or KFM, is based on a series of tight, controlled, efficient movements. An evolving discipline that was founded only 20 years ago, Keysi is an intuitive, low-grounded fighting method that requires superior leg and upper body strength, with a strong emphasis on mental focus and awareness. Unlike other martial arts developed for sport, KFM lends itself to combat in close quarters and can be applied to fighting in any environment, against multiple attackers from all directions.

“The Keysi Fighting Method is a very intuitive kind of martial art, but also very, very brutal,” Bale relates. “It’s all about going for the break straightaway. It’s quite instinctive and it adapts to many different situations
.

I understand that you have an opinion here, and I get where you are coming from. But to say that Begins was a bad film and that everything was bad about it, that's going a little far. That's all I am saying.

Bale > Keaton..... Batman Begins > Batman 89... :D

I seem to be posting these alot today. Now all we need is Shai to post his Jackson eating popcorn gif.
 
Now all we need is Shai to post his Jackson eating popcorn gif.

2llf520.gif
 
And to all of those Ledger Joker haters... You haven't even SEEN what he is doing with the Joker. Don't judge a character in a film that hasn't even been released. :mad:

I don't know the comics, so I can't compare that, but considering the Joker from a general concept, I think Ledger will better portray the psychopathic killer. Nicholson played the clown better, but doesn't come off as a Hannibal Lecter type loon, where just in the trailer, Ledger has a creepiness to him, particularly how he licks he lips going after Rachel, "a little fight in ya", he looks like he's going to eat her.
 
Something people tend to forget about Joker. He's more than a Mass-murdering loonatic. And he was not a gangster before he became the red hood, and subsequently the joker. ( one of my beefs with the 89 flm) He's a Brilliant Scientist, and Chemist. He MAKES his Acid from his flowers, He created the "jokerfish" chemical, and his laughing gas. He's just demented. Brilliant, but demented.
 
So you're saying the addition of Gore, and lewd comments makes it more "mature" ? YOu probobly thought that Hostle desereved best picture also, right?

Abnormal psychology and mature characters like in Returns go way over Batman Begins fans head so i just spoke to their intellect. No i freaking hate films like Hostle.


Side note, I take great offense to your downplaying of Martial Arts, I would be VERY careful how you treat and talk about that aspect of many peoples lives. While MOST Martial arts teach defence, there are some that Teach the best defence is leaving your opponent drowning in his own blood. Those people tend to have a VERY short fuse. Mouthing off like that gets people in trouble. ( Please note, this is not a threat, this is a Genuine warning, I've seen people say the wrong thing to the wrong person and end up in a hospital with a crushed ribcage, it's not pretty. Do be Careful)

What the hell is this about? I don't know a thing about martial arts, i practiced Kendo for a few months thats it.
 
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And trying to say that Kickboxing is a fighting style that works as opposed to Keysi, that "doesn't work".... You don't know a thing about fighting. Here is a description of that style that you say is "ineffective"..

The Keysi Fighting Method, also known as Keysi or KFM, is based on a series of tight, controlled, efficient movements. An evolving discipline that was founded only 20 years ago, Keysi is an intuitive, low-grounded fighting method that requires superior leg and upper body strength, with a strong emphasis on mental focus and awareness. Unlike other martial arts developed for sport, KFM lends itself to combat in close quarters and can be applied to fighting in any environment, against multiple attackers from all directions.

“The Keysi Fighting Method is a very intuitive kind of martial art, but also very, very brutal,” Bale relates. “It’s all about going for the break straightaway. It’s quite instinctive and it adapts to many different situations
.

Dude i don't even know what Keysi is, never heard of it, i'm not an expert in martial arts. I always heard kickboxing and Jeet Kune Do were the only two effective sports, if i'm wrong sorry.
 
Dude i don't even know what Keysi is, never heard of it, i'm not an expert in martial arts. I always heard kickboxing and Jeet Kune Do were the only two effective sports, if i'm wrong sorry.

It's detailed in the behind the scenes footage on the 2-Disc set of Begins.
 
I'm not planning to debate 5 Begins fans at ones, it is to tiresome, since i seem to be the only Burton bat-fan here. The reason why i am so harsh against Begins because i hate 15 year old computer geeks pronouncing on the imdb and other forums that Begins craps all over the Burton films, those donkey brains are just retarded.
 
Man! I don't think over the past............well almost a year i've ever seen anyone voice anything remotely in a negative fashion towards DA, the guy gets along with like everyone. :lol

8th, I too love Burtons Batman, I am a HUGE fan and will always be, hell I saw the damn movie in the theatre 4 times as a 12 year old kid! I just love it. However Begins IS a better Batman movie and I can't believe you would knock the score??? :google I listen to Molasses like every day while at work!

Hey, at the end of the day its just an opionion and my opinion is that, well, you really can't compare the two films. Different eras hence a different time.
Begins rocks!
 
=Voorhees27;832406]Man! I don't think over the past............well almost a year i've ever seen anyone voice anything remotely in a negative fashion towards DA, the guy gets along with like everyone. :lol

I hope to get along with everybody as well, i just get a bit worked up sometimes regarding the Burton vs Nolan debates. I've been a Burton batman fan since i was a kid. I saw returns on my birthday in the theatre and loved it, my father went to the US for a holiday and brought me back allot of Batman Returns merchandise, including a bat-mask.
 
I'm not planning to debate 5 Begins fans at ones, it is to tiresome, since i seem to be the only Burton bat-fan here.

You're not the only fan, I love those films but at this point in my life, my love for them comes from feeling like a kid inside because that's what I was when I saw those movies, I was 6 when the first one came out and had a bazillion toys and such. One of my favorite figures in my 1/6 collection is my custom Keaton Batman.

In my adult years, Batman Begins speaks more to my current tastes. Any comic movie is unrealistic, but when they take an approach that tip toes along the line of believable and unbelievable, I enjoy that more. I love the X-Men films because, for the most part, they seem like this could be our world one day. Batman begins feels like if someone had such resources, they could do something like this. Burton's films are enjoyable, but just feel strongly comicesque.
 
The fact that Bruce Wayne doesn't just magically happen to become Batman. The storyline started with the 1989 film portrays Wayne as having all sorts of engineering skills and the likes to create all of his Batman gear, including the Batmobile, all on his own.

At least with Begins, there are believable routes to it all. His gear is designed by Wayne Enterprises for applications and he takes them an cannibalizes them on a basic level to his own needs. He found a teacher to help him hone his fighting skills. The route to the Batcave is more realistic to have the house built with a hidden passageway from a realistic scenario.


No, he just magically stumbles upon the criminal organization that just happens to be his main adversary throughout the movie, and he just magically happens to inherit a corporation that just happens to make all of the gadgets he uses, and those gadgets just happen to be unknown to everyone but someone he can magically trust for no reason whatsoever, instead of the undeniably more-realistic version where there's a whole staff of people who would see the Tumbler on TV and say "hey, I worked on that at Wayne Enterprises for 5 years with a whole staff of engineers!"

Realism. Right.

"Batman Begins" doesn't make any of that stuff more plausible than the Burton films does by showing it. The difference is with the Burton films you might ask yourself "where does he get all this stuff?" whereas with the Nolan films you say "oh, so he just has them".

Not a very good argument in this discussion; the first 4 Batman movies were nothing but popcorn flicks. The original 1989 film had a pretty good story, but after that the stories got weaker and weaker along with everything else. Begins feels more intellectual than it's predecessors.

Maybe if you're twelve. It's still a movie about a guy who runs around fighting baddies in a rubber bat suit. You can only take it so seriously, and by taking it too seriously Nolan's take is arguably as ridiculous as something like the Schumacher films. Batman simply isn't a serious or realistic character.

That's the thing, Returns is dark and bad for a kid, but as adult the darkness is wrapped in a cartoony shell. The nose biting to an adult is rediculous, and cats licking wounds doesn't seem all that odd to me. I don't think Begins was a dark film though, nor does it have to be. I think it felt more mature as a movie about a hero with the type of story arc Batman has. I think the Begins way is more sympathetic than Keaton's, you get a better sense of the anguish Bruce felt over his parents death in Begins.

What's his story arc? He falls into a hole, gets scared by bats, his parents are killed, he undergoes kung-fu training and he dresses like a Bat. It ain't exactly Shakespeare.

Begins will be as enduring as the 1989 film. The endurance of the 1989 film is fandom and I'd wager Begins found the same ammount or more favor with Batman fans than the 1989 film.

I vehemently disagree. The lack of style in Nolan's films will cause them to age horribly. Burton's Gotham is unlike anything that exists in reality so it remains timeless whereas Nolan's Gotham will always seem like Chicago in 2005. Furthermore, Nolan's take on the character has simply failed to connect with audiences in the way Burton and even Schumacher did, and that's from the very beginning.
 
8th Wonder, please understand... I am not a Begins fan that is dumping on Batman 89. It was still a great film and a piece of art. I was young when it came out, watched it 3 times in the theater... I even ate the crappy cereal. Just because I loved Batman so damn much. So trust me... I'm not a hater.

But as Sean has already said... I connect to the new films because of the more intellectual quality of them. And Guru, to say that there was no character arc in Begins, you must have been sleeping.

The Tumbler, I can agree with... He should have modified it a bit more to make it not look different than the original prototype. That being said, if someone DID say they worked on it and connect it to Wayne... He could just say it was stolen. Lucius would back him up there.

As far as taking a vigilante seriously. It can happen. It may be fiction, but not impossible. If someone really wanted to score high tech gear and fight crime, they could do it. It just has never happened before. So Begins can take a more realistic approach and still seem reasonable.

The thing that is hilarious about the way this thread is going is the fact that Sean, myself and Lerath are staying relatively pleasant about our opinions... whereas the opposing side of the fence are being more negative in their word slinging. :lol

I'm a Batman COMICS fan, first and foremost. And Begins comes closest to how I view Batman. Batman 89 is second, Returns 3rd... and the rest are too horrible to mention. That's my opinion. I am not attempting to force it on anyone, it's just how I feel.
 
And Guru, to say that there was no character arc in Begins, you must have been sleeping.

Didn't you read what I wrote?

He falls into a hole, gets scared by bats, his parents are killed, he undergoes kung-fu training and he dresses like a Bat. It ain't exactly Shakespeare.

That's all there is to it. Try to deny it.
 
No, he just magically stumbles upon the criminal organization that just happens to be his main adversary throughout the movie

The League of Shadows, like any organization, can only succeed if it keeps tabs on areas involved with it's business, criminality, and operating out of the region it is, would only make sense for it to be aware of the prisons around it and crimes committed, and certainly a caucasion Amerian would stand out in that prison as he did. The League of Shadows viewed Gotham as a plagued part of the world that needed to fall and tried once, failed due to the Wayne family stepping in, it's very plausible they'd follow Bruce's story and coming accross him in jail wherever he was, they'd see fit to try and win him over as it would only help their efforts in Gotham for round 2.

and he just magically happens to inherit a corporation that just happens to make all of the gadgets he uses
His family developed a corporation that's a think tank for developing goods the world needs from domestic to military applications.

I wouldn't say it's magical that things he needs happens to be there, merely convenient, but he outsourced the pieces of his mask which shows he's only going through WE because he owns it all and it's easier to acquire under the radar. Certainly, it's less magical than Burton's Batman who designs a suit from the ground up specifically to be Batman where Nolan's kit bashes pieces he finds around WE into a suit. I find it more realistic to create something from existing pieces that may happen to be overly conveniently available than to be skilled enough to create them all on your own from scratch and still have the elements be conveniently available.


and those gadgets just happen to be unknown to everyone but someone he can magically trust for no reason whatsoever, instead of the undeniably more-realistic version where there's a whole staff of people who would see the Tumbler on TV and say "hey, I worked on that at Wayne Enterprises for 5 years with a whole staff of engineers!"

Fox was fired just for asking questions about a WE project, clearly they take great pride in making certain projects be very hush hush. I find it very plausible that anyone recognizing the tumbler on TV would be unlikely to have an opportunity to speak up, particularly when there was opposition to Batman, last thing people of WE before Bruce took over would let happen is WE be tied to Batman, and especially with Bruce in charge, it'll get covered up.

"Batman Begins" doesn't make any of that stuff more plausible than the Burton films does by showing it. The difference is with the Burton films you might ask yourself "where does he get all this stuff?" whereas with the Nolan films you say "oh, so he just has them".

For me, Burton and Shumacher's films make you look at Batman himself and wonder "how does he pull this off?", Nolan's film didn't leave me wondering anything like that, I finished Batman Begins with a sense of, if someone is going to be Batman, this is about the only way you could go about it because 1 man can't do everything from making cars to bullet proof suits.

Nolan's take is arguably as ridiculous as something like the Schumacher films. Batman simply isn't a serious or realistic character.

Nolan's take is somewhat rediculous, but as you point out, the concept is inherently rediculous to a point, all comic book stories are. There is a way you can present the material, however, that can get you to think this could really be. Nolan's Batman does that, Singer's X-Men did that.

It's not to say the Burton films are without value, they have it, I just think their qualities appeal more to children and inner children, where movies like Begins can appeal to more adult viewers. I know people in their mid 20s to late 30s that would probably laugh at being asked to go watch Burton's Batmans today, but they are engaged by Nolan's and are eager to see the follow up with TDK.

What's his story arc? He falls into a hole, gets scared by bats, his parents are killed, he undergoes kung-fu training and he dresses like a Bat. It ain't exactly Shakespeare.

No, it's not Shakespeare. The story arc is a man loses his parents as a child to criminals, buries a strong sense of guilt along with anger at the man who took their lives, develops a drive to rid the world of that which took away what was most precious to him and taps into all of his resources to make it happen. From that, I think Begins better portrays and makes you feel that is what's going on with Bruce Wayne, you get a sense of why he is Batman and what he's really about. Burton's Batman doesn't convey that so much, it's in the story but the way it's handled just isn't as compelling, you don't feel for what's going on in him you just get a vague sense that it's there, but you feel like Nolan's Batman is tragic.



I vehemently disagree. The lack of style in Nolan's films will cause them to age horribly. Burton's Gotham is unlike anything that exists in reality so it remains timeless whereas Nolan's Gotham will always seem like Chicago in 2005.

Undeniably, Burton created a very stylistic world where Nolan bastardized the real world, but that's hardly enough to carry a film. I seriously doubt the endurance of Batman 1989 comes from the style, but rather the entire story and the style is only a part of it. Batman is a powerful hero because he doesn't have superpowers, he's just a guy and people can relate to being just a guy. Tell an entertaining story around that basic principle and you'll have an enduring film and to that end, I think Nolan's will be just as enduring because it's a nicely told story.

Furthermore, Nolan's take on the character has simply failed to connect with audiences in the way Burton and even Schumacher did, and that's from the very beginning.

I see nothing all that connectable in the characters of Burton's films and especially not Shumacher's. Keaton plays a great Bruce Wayne and Batman, but doesn't do anything that make me feel like "ya I've been there", but Bale's performance and emotion touched me, there were times where I though "i've felt like this" and I get pulled into the Begins story because things happen I wish I could do myself.
 
Didn't you read what I wrote?

What's his story arc? He falls into a hole, gets scared by bats, his parents are killed, he undergoes kung-fu training and he dresses like a Bat. It ain't exactly Shakespeare

That's all there is to it. Try to deny it.

I'm sorry, buddy... have to disagree there. That's the classic Batman story. Always has been.

Bruce developed a fear of Bats as a young child, and partly blames himself for having those fears. He got scared during the play, wanted to leave. And in so doing, his parents were gunned down. Later in life, when the man who killed his parents is gunned down (something he was just about to do himself), he's faced with the fact that if he had killed him, he would be no better than a criminal. So he decides to face his fears, to venture out in the world and make himself into a stronger man.

He is found by the League of Shadows and trained, there he masters his fears and once he returns to Gotham... he becomes a Bat. To use the fears of his childhood against those who prey on the weak.

It's the core Batman legend, just tweaked a bit. And to say that that character journey is not a strong one. You have no idea what you are saying. Begins handled that angle of the story very well, giving us the Batman we've always wanted on screen. At least in my eyes.

Maybe not yours... But I can't win them all. I just wish you would be a little more passive about this conversation and not so argumentative. It shows a lack of maturity. :cool:
 
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