UFC, etc.

[Devil_666]

I thought Fitch won. Fight Metric agrees.

And just in case you're curious, for Round 2:

They both had 1 take down apiece. Penn got back to his feet after the Fitch take down. And Fitch was able to reverse to top position in-guard after the Penn take down. The biggest difference though is striking: Fitch landed 59 strikes (14 significant) while Penn only landed 18 strikes (4 significant).

___________________________

Strikeforce confirmed their HW tournament circus has been delayed until June. 3 months just to start the second half of the opening round!?

Pathetic.

 

[daikkenaurora]

I thought Fitch won. Fight Metric agrees.

And just in case you're curious, for Round 2:

They both had 1 take down apiece. Penn got back to his feet after the Fitch take down. And Fitch was able to reverse to top position in-guard after the Penn take down. The biggest difference though is striking: Fitch landed 59 strikes (14 significant) while Penn only landed 18 strikes (4 significant).

___________________________

Strikeforce confirmed their HW tournament circus has been delayed until June. 3 months just to start the second half of the opening round!?

Pathetic.

Where are the power levels and HP stats for each person? How much exp do they need before they level up?

Strikeforce doesnt know what they are doing.

 

[Devil_666]

Where are the power levels and HP stats for each person? How much exp do they need before they level up?

When it comes to Lay and Pray..

FITCH IS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KBA]

When it comes to Lay and Pray..

FITCH IS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SiMHTK15Pik" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[daikkenaurora]

When it comes to Lay and Pray..

FITCH IS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Super Saiyan Lay n Pray.

 

[nash]

I thought Fitch won. Fight Metric agrees.

And just in case you're curious, for Round 2:

They both had 1 take down apiece. Penn got back to his feet after the Fitch take down. And Fitch was able to reverse to top position in-guard after the Penn take down. The biggest difference though is striking: Fitch landed 59 strikes (14 significant) while Penn only landed 18 strikes (4 significant).

What about Penn taking Fitch's back and having him near a RNC? What about Penn making Fitch bleed with an elbow? Not taking those into consideration?

IMO, Penn getting back to his feet quickly is worth more than Fitch almost getting RNC'd but turning around and ending up into Penn's guard where he proceeds to lay-n-pray. Penn attempted to do something more significant on the ground after the takedown where Fitch just happened to end up in Penn's guard and then did some minor striking.

 

[Devil_666]

What about Penn taking Fitch's back and having him near a RNC?

That happened in round 1, not round 2. In round 2 Penn got Fitch's back and did nothing with it. No sub attempt, no nothing.

What about Penn making Fitch bleed with an elbow?

That elbow was 1 of only 4 significant strikes Penn landed in that round. Fitch landed 10 more significant strikes than Penn (14 to 4). Are you suggesting that should be disregarded just because Fitch bleeds easier!?

IMO, Penn getting back to his feet quickly is worth more than Fitch almost getting RNC'd but turning around and ending up into Penn's guard where he proceeds to lay-n-pray. Penn attempted to do something more significant on the ground after the takedown where Fitch just happened to end up in Penn's guard and then did some minor striking.

Already pointed out that Fitch was not even remotely close to being in a RNC in round 2. "Fitch just happened to end up in Penn's guard"!? Seriously? He reversed position. That's not luck or a fluke or an accident. You make it sound like Fitch tripped and randomly ended up in top position. You don't give Fitch credit for an escape & reversing position but you happily give Penn credit for just an escape? That makes no sense to me.

Also, those 14 significant strikes I mentioned that Fitch landed in round 2: ALL 14 were landed on the ground when Fitch had top position.

 

[daikkenaurora]

UFC 128: Nash vs Devil_666 - Live from ____sville, CA

 

[KBA]

Fight Metric

I would be all for something like Fight Metric to be available to the judges after each round. Obviously, it couldn't replace judges, but it could definitely help them in the way modern technology has helped other sports: instant replay in Football, goal line cameras in hockey and soccer, ect.

 

[Devil_666]

I disagree.

CompuBox, CompuStrike and Fight Metric stats are cool for post-fight discussions but remember: all those stats are entered into a computer by hand, by a human.

Granted, I've never seen someone dispute the stats those apps generate but that still doesn't change the fact that they're compiled by human beings which makes them an opinion so providing judges with that information during a fight would be no different and just as shady as some spectator giving their opinion to a judge on how they saw the fight for that particular round.

And that's completely different than the other examples you listed that are used in other sports. Instant Replay/Goal Line cameras for example aren't an opinion.

 

[KBA]

I get that the 'significant' number of shots landed in parenthesis is opinion, but is it an opinion that Fitch landed 59 strikes and Penn only 18? Or fact? That's the minute stuff I' talking about that might help daft judges make better decisions.

The weird thing is that the UFC could have hand picked their own judges for the fight. It took place in Australia, and wasn't bound by the normal athletic commission rules. Dana White can complain about judging all day long, but his usual "I don't get to choose the judges" excuse doesn't fly this time.

 

[Bezzerkerr]

IDK Devil...that's a tough argument. I think BJ won the first two rounds. Fitch whooped him in the 3rd. 2 rounds to 1, but i think a draw was fair because Fitch beat him down in the 3rd.

 

[nash]

IDK Devil...that's a tough argument. I think BJ won the first two rounds. Fitch whooped him in the 3rd. 2 rounds to 1, but i think a draw was fair because Fitch beat him down in the 3rd.

what you're saying is that the 3rd round is a 10-8 round for Fitch? A 10-8 round is pretty rare in MMA. The first round of Edgar/Maynard 2 was a 10-8 round. Did Round 3 of Penn/Fitch come even remotely close to that? no way.

Devil, what are 'significant strikes'? and who determines it being significant or non-significant? IMO that is in the eye of the beholder.

And yes, judges do and should count visible physical damage done to a fighter. Tough ____ if you cut or bleed easy. Do you tell the doctor that the fight shouldnt be stopped from ONE elbow just because your fighter bleeds easy?

As for Fitch being in BJ's guard. sounds like you hold getting someone's back at the same point level as ending up in their guard. that is what makes no sense.

 

[Devil_666]

I get that the 'significant' number of shots landed in parenthesis is opinion, but is it an opinion that Fitch landed 59 strikes and Penn only 18? Or fact?

Well that's the thing, it's still an opinion because it's not definitive. Again, a person is deciding what's thrown, what lands, what's attempted, etc.

I've never seen anyone dispute the stats from CompuBox, CompuStrike or Fight Metric but then again I've never seen anyone independently gather their own stats for fights. Too much work.

My point was, that kind of stat gathering is completely different from an instant replay/superior vantage point from a special camera. Because those things have no opinion. They're unbiased, 100% neutral aids to help officials. And they have 0 room for error besides machine failure.

The weird thing is that the UFC could have hand picked their own judges for the fight. It took place in Australia, and wasn't bound by the normal athletic commission rules. Dana White can complain about judging all day long, but his usual "I don't get to choose the judges" excuse doesn't fly this time.

I might be wrong about this, but I think the UFC abides by the NSAC regardless of where they are at (when the place doesn't have their own commission). Because even when they're like in Europe, the NSAC still handles ALL the drug testing and I think they're also in charge of assigning refs/judges.

I think the UFC does that so there's no room for suspicion of tampering. Just a guess, not even remotely close to being sure about that.

IDK Devil...that's a tough argument. I think BJ won the first two rounds. Fitch whooped him in the 3rd. 2 rounds to 1, but i think a draw was fair because Fitch beat him down in the 3rd.

Well it's debatable, hence the debate.

What's indisputable is this: 1 judge had Fitch winning. 2 judges had it a draw. So realistically the only outcome that's debatable (based on the official judging) is whether or not the fight was a draw or a win for Fitch.

Notice there's no mention of Penn and whether or not he won? That's because none of the 3 judges thought he won.

I gave BJ round 1 (10-9) then gave Fitch rounds 2 and 3 (10-9) for a final total of 29-28 for Fitch.

The main thing I took away from that fight: GSP would murk both. Again.

 

[Devil_666]

And yes, judges do and should count visible physical damage done to a fighter. Tough ____ if you cut or bleed easy. Do you tell the doctor that the fight shouldnt be stopped from ONE elbow just because your fighter bleeds easy?

Penn looked worse after round 3/during the decision results then Fitch after his nose was bleeding/during the decision results. Should the judges consider that as well? It was a great strike from BJ. My point is, it didn't wobble, stun or drop Fitch so why use that one single strike to determine the winner of that round!? Especially when Fitch out struck BJ for the entire round as a whole?

As for Fitch being in BJ's guard. sounds like you hold getting someone's back at the same point level as ending up in their guard. that is what makes no sense.

Fitch reversed in round 1 as well. But I didn't give him that round because BJ had a RNC sunk in. He just couldn't finish.

When BJ got Fitch's back in round 2 he did absolutely nothing with it. Fitch had wrist control and in less than a minute escaped and reversed position to top/in guard where he landed strikes. Simply getting into dominant positions without doing a single thing (sub attempts, damage, etc.) shouldn't automatically win you rounds in MMA unless that's the only significant thing that happens. And in this case, it wasn't.

 

[nash]

Penn looked worse after round 3/during the decision results then Fitch after his nose was bleeding/during the decision results. Should the judges consider that as well? It was a great strike from BJ. My point is, it didn't wobble, stun or drop Fitch so why use that one single strike to determine the winner of that round!? Especially when Fitch out struck BJ for the entire round as a whole?

I agree Penn was looking beat up after round 3 which was Fitch all the way, 10-9. However after Round 2 BJ looked fine, fitch didnt. Wasn't most of the 2nd round Fitch holding BJ up against the cage again where he really didnt do much either? BJ fending the takedown attempt and peppering him in his head with elbows and punches.

To me that elbow that made fitch bleed was THE MOST significant strike of round 2.

Fitch reversed in round 1 as well. But I didn't give him that round because BJ had a RNC sunk in. He just couldn't finish.

When BJ got Fitch's back in round 2 he did absolutely nothing with it. Fitch had wrist control and in less than a minute escaped and reversed position to top/in guard where he landed strikes. Simply getting into dominant positions without doing a single thing (sub attempts, damage, etc.) shouldn't automatically win you rounds in MMA unless that's the only significant thing that happens. And in this case, it wasn't.

Well I disagree that dominant positions shouldnt win rounds. It's not easy to get someone's back or get on full mount. IMO if a single takedown can win a round alone, why not dominant position? You shouldn't have one and not the other.

As for significant strikes...once Fitch gto into Penn's guard in Rnd 2, he really didnt do much "significant" striking. A lot of it was blocked and misguided by Penn.

I'll have to watch the fight a 2nd time, im going off of my memory of what I saw saturday.

 

[nash]

What's indisputable is this: 1 judge had Fitch winning. 2 judges had it a draw. So realistically the only outcome that's debatable (based on the official judging) is whether or not the fight was a draw or a win for Fitch.

Notice there's no mention of Penn and whether or not he won? That's because none of the 3 judges thought he won.

I gave BJ round 1 (10-9) then gave Fitch rounds 2 and 3 (10-9) for a final total of 29-28 for Fitch.

That is kind of a misguided statement.

1 judge had fitch winning.

2 judges had BJ winning rounds 1 and 2 (10-9; 10-9)but both gave Fitch the 3rd round as a 10-8.

The BIGGEST debate of the whole fight is that the 3rd round was NOT anything near a 10-8 round. If they both scored the 3rd a 10-9 for Fitch, Penn is the winner.

 

[Devil_666]

IMO if a single takedown can win a round alone, why not dominant position? You shouldn't have one and not the other.

No I agree, that's why I said "unless that's the only significant thing that happens". Remember round 1 of Couture vs. Sylvia? Take away the knockdown and I still would've scored the round for Couture because he spent the majority of the round in a dominant position having Timmy's back. But that's because that's the only significant thing that happened. If you're gonna give points for a fighter getting dominant position then you also have to give points for a fighter escaping/reversing/sweeping. You might disagree with giving the two equal points, which is fine. But when Penn had Fitch's back he did nothing with it because Fitch had wrist control and then reversed after less than a minute of BJ having that position. And the big difference is when Fitch reversed he landed some GnP i.e. he actually did something with his position. Might not have been the most damaging GnP ever seen but it doesn't change the fact that he at least did something.

That is kind of a misguided statement.

I'll try to explain it again (sometimes it's hard to properly explain stuff just typing on a forum, lol) what I meant was, everything about that fight can be debated except the official scorecards that were handed in. Because that's what goes on the record and those scores (like 'em or not) decided the fight. 1 judge had it for Fitch, 2 judges had it a draw. So officially, in the record book, none of the 3 judges that night thought/scored the fight as a win for Penn. Hope that makes sense!? Probably not. F'n internet.

 

[NASEDO]

BJ won the fight, judges been wrong before, the 10-8 round is stupid. BJ was never hurt . Fight sucked anyway. All of Fitchs fights are garbage. He couldnt beat 155 lb fighter and he wants a title shot. Fitch v GSP would be another snore fest.

 

[ArmoredFoe]

...i figured this would be over by now. I thought the fight could have went either way, in my mind i go with Fitch, but again with all the opinionated reason for BJ being the victor I can agree with also which is why I just say for once the judges made the right call. It was just to close to call. Ok im done, with that spam me hate me whatever.

Im looking forward to tonights fights. Should be good.