The Killing Joke animated film

[geekjosh]

Yep, cancelled my blu-ray preorder after watching it. Sad day.

 

[jnmx2000]

Yes, Godzilla is terrible.

 

[BlueberryJerry]

Yep, cancelled my blu-ray preorder after watching it.

Me too

 

[Otomofan]

I got the book when it came out. I still have the first printing, but it's probably not worth much cause I read it and re-read it so it's pretty beat up.

I was about 10 or 11 when it came out. Probably too young, but that might be a reason why it made such an impact on me. Same with reading Dark Knight Returns around the same age...I knew this was something "adult" and "off limits" and it made it that much more thrilling. It never gave me nightmares or anything. I knew what he did to Barbara was more than just usual "bad guy" stuff...he took her clothes off. Even as a kid, I knew that was somehow worse than shooting her. (I had no idea what the line "good in the sack" was supposed to mean though.)

Young as I was, I don't remember anyone complaining about it. In fact, I remember it getting universal praise. And the art is still some of the best comic art I've ever seen. Brian Bolland is a god amongst men with a pencil.

I don't even remember reading anything negative about the story until a year or two back when DC had to pull that variant cover.

I see it like this: this isn't Barbara's story and it never was. She's there for one reason: to be a victim. You know what? Bad things happen every day to good people. And she had something bad happen to her. That's all there is to it. That was her purpose in the story. It was about the JOKER. It was about BATMAN. It was about their relationship and psychoses. Barbara and Gordan were merely plot devices to push the story along.

And what is so wrong about that? It's not called BATGIRL: THE KILLING JOKE. Joker is a bad guy. Bad guys prey on victims. She was a victim.

The tacked on prologue was cringeworthy. All the grrl power stuff, the hamfisted way they made sure everyone knew what a "creepy guy" the mobster kid was. Babs dishing it up to her gay BFF. All the smartphones. We have a story that clearly takes place in 2016 and then the REAL story starts and we abruptly transition back to the aesthetics and sensibilities of 1988. The sudden shift in tone gave me whiplash. Two unrelated stories smacked together....and they didn't fit at all.

One last complaint, since I'm on a roll....I read the book so many times I had it practically memorized. I knew all the words to the "Loo-oo-ooney" song. But the melody I made up in my head was way better than the one they used in the cartoon. So along with the original "garish" colors from the book, I also prefer my original tune for the song.

Yes I know...I'm old and cranky. I've become Comic Book Guy in real life. Well....fine. So be it. I just think after hyping this cartoon for a year, they sure delivered a lousy product in the end. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thought it really sucked.

 

[GasparZizou]

I would be willing to re-watch this, if they cut all the Batgirl crap and they do that recoloring edit that someone posted paged ago. That looked dope.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Okay okay…………horrible.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I got the book when it came out. I still have the first printing, but it's probably not worth much cause I read it and re-read it so it's pretty beat up.

I was about 10 or 11 when it came out. Probably too young, but that might be a reason why it made such an impact on me. Same with reading Dark Knight Returns around the same age...I knew this was something "adult" and "off limits" and it made it that much more thrilling. It never gave me nightmares or anything. I knew what he did to Barbara was more than just usual "bad guy" stuff...he took her clothes off. Even as a kid, I knew that was somehow worse than shooting her. (I had no idea what the line "good in the sack" was supposed to mean though.)

Young as I was, I don't remember anyone complaining about it. In fact, I remember it getting universal praise. And the art is still some of the best comic art I've ever seen. Brian Bolland is a god amongst men with a pencil.

I don't even remember reading anything negative about the story until a year or two back when DC had to pull that variant cover.

I see it like this: this isn't Barbara's story and it never was. She's there for one reason: to be a victim. You know what? Bad things happen every day to good people. And she had something bad happen to her. That's all there is to it. That was her purpose in the story. It was about the JOKER. It was about BATMAN. It was about their relationship and psychoses. Barbara and Gordan were merely plot devices to push the story along.

And what is so wrong about that? It's not called BATGIRL: THE KILLING JOKE. Joker is a bad guy. Bad guys prey on victims. She was a victim.

The tacked on prologue was cringeworthy. All the grrl power stuff, the hamfisted way they made sure everyone knew what a "creepy guy" the mobster kid was. Babs dishing it up to her gay BFF. All the smartphones. We have a story that clearly takes place in 2016 and then the REAL story starts and we abruptly transition back to the aesthetics and sensibilities of 1988. The sudden shift in tone gave me whiplash. Two unrelated stories smacked together....and they didn't fit at all.

One last complaint, since I'm on a roll....I read the book so many times I had it practically memorized. I knew all the words to the "Loo-oo-ooney" song. But the melody I made up in my head was way better than the one they used in the cartoon. So along with the original "garish" colors from the book, I also prefer my original tune for the song.

Yes I know...I'm old and cranky. I've become Comic Book Guy in real life. Well....fine. So be it. I just think after hyping this cartoon for a year, they sure delivered a lousy product in the end. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thought it really sucked.

It's not worth anything because DC reprinted the hell out of it

 

[GasparZizou]

I believe 1st prints/editions are still worth a little something to collectos, if it's a 1st edition of anything before the late 90's.

Especially TKJ since the only editions that are easy to get are the horrible 2008 recoloring.

There's another newer edition with the original colors, I believe.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I believe 1st prints/editions are still worth a little something to collectos, if it's a 1st edition of anything before the late 90's.

Especially TKJ since the only editions that are easy to get are the horrible 2008 recoloring.

There's another newer edition with the original colors, I believe.

You mean the one I got as a birthday gift in 2008? ; _ ;

 

[GasparZizou]

You mean the one I got as a birthday gift in 2008? ; _ ;

Gomen gomen, I mean, it's not that bad.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

You mean the one I got as a birthday gift in 2008? ; _ ;

You too huh. I still have my original right next to it.

 

[Otomofan]

Well Brian Bolland may have decided that he didn't like the "garish" and "cartoony" colors "ruining" his artwork, but I will always prefer that to his sterile recolor. It just looks bleached-out and boring. The worst offense to me was that he took the time to photoshop out the yellow oval on the bat symbol in every shot of Batman, just cause that was considered passe by 2008. But it looks SO wrong cause it's still the oval shaped bat but "naked," not the Frank Miller/Jim Lee style symbol Batman's been using for years.

At least the DC Direct figure still had the oval. This is still my go-to comic book style Batman in my display. Brian Bolland's Batman will always be MY personal definitive comic style Batman. Kids in the 70s had Neal Adams, kids today might prefer Greg Cappulo, but this is the one for me.

 

[GasparZizou]

That figure is gorgeous.

There are very few figures for which I make an exception when it comes to no articulation, that is one, the other one is the Alex Ross Justice series 1 Superman.

 

[Johnny1378]

Well Brian Bolland may have decided that he didn't like the "garish" and "cartoony" colors "ruining" his artwork, but I will always prefer that to his sterile recolor. It just looks bleached-out and boring. The worst offense to me was that he took the time to photoshop out the yellow oval on the bat symbol in every shot of Batman, just cause that was considered passe by 2008. But it looks SO wrong cause it's still the oval shaped bat but "naked," not the Frank Miller/Jim Lee style symbol Batman's been using for years.

At least the DC Direct figure still had the oval. This is still my go-to comic book style Batman in my display. Brian Bolland's Batman will always be MY personal definitive comic style Batman. Kids in the 70s had Neal Adams, kids today might prefer Greg Cappulo, but this is the one for me.

View attachment 281452

Exactly. Taking the yellow oval off seemed especially dumb, given that the symbol with the yellow oval was the way the costume was supposed to look at the time "The Killing Joke" was originally published. Going back to retroactively try to make it match the way it looked in 2008 made no sense.

In general I just really prefer the original edition of the comic.

 

[Jameson Rook]

Saw it the second time last night with friends, they're casual Batfans but they know the lore well enough. They all spontaneously cringed at that sex scene and the conversation that followed it so that's a good indication on how bad it is. Honestly, I would re-cut the movie since this version is just that bad. Barbara's prequel doesn't hold up on repeated viewings.

 

[Johnny1378]

After reading the reviews here and elsewhere, I have to say I'm pretty disappointed. I'll still give it a watch, sometime, but it's no longer an automatic purchase.
The Killing Joke has always been one of my favorite comic books, and when they announced they were doing an animated version, I couldn't have been more excited. Unlike some, I was okay with the chosen voice actors and thought the animation looked fine (though not nearly as cool as Brian Bolland's original illustrations). And really, had they chose to just do a straight adaptation of the comic, I don't think I would have really been bothered by a shorter run time (they always could have paired it with an original short and/or some classic Batman:TAS or Justice League episodes as they have done with past releases).
What really bothers me is that it seems like in an effort to not appear insensitive, it sounds like they sacrificed a cohesive story. I know I'm partially echoing what others have said, but it baffles me as to why that's even necessary. What happens to Barbara in the story is monstrous and terrible, but it's also a work of fiction. I'm not sure why we're now trying to hold our fictional villains to a standard of having to behave themselves. They are the villains, after all. I had the same reaction to DC's decision to pull the variant Batgirl comic book cover where it shows Batgirl reacting to Joker in a terrified manner. To me, that cover just illustrated what an effective villain the Joker is, and Batgirl's reaction to him, just further humanized Barbara's character. Why would anyone at Joker's mercy react in a way other than sheer terror, particularly a character that had already gone through something traumatic at the hands of the same villain?
I have to say that when I read the original comic book, I never got the impression that they were treating the Barbara Gordon character as disposable. Admittedly, maybe that was because I had already read a lot of comics that featured Batgirl. But the way Joker's attack on her happens so suddenly in The Killing Joke, if anything I think that gave more weight to what happened. It's definitely a scene that sticks with you.
I don't know if the recent aforementioned Batgirl variant cover that was canceled is what originally stirred up this controversy or if it goes back further than that, but it seems like in an effort to make sure they don't give the impression that they've marginalized Barbara's character, a backstory has been shoehorned in that apparently doesn't fit the original part of the story that was adapted from the comic and also has the characters behaving in ways that seem contrary to any other interpretation of the characters that I can think of.

 

[GasparZizou]

Saw it the second time last night with friends, they're casual Batfans but they know the lore well enough. They all spontaneously cringed at that sex scene and the conversation that followed it so that's a good indication on how bad it is. Honestly, I would re-cut the movie since this version is just that bad. Barbara's prequel doesn't hold up on repeated viewings.

The sex scene isn't bad on itself, and there's nothing actually wrong with it, it's not "reductive" or whatever the SJW are making it out to be.

"muh strong female hero has the hots for a dominant male waaah".

What's wrong with it is that it's attached to TKJ, who the **** thought it was a good idea? I can see the Batgirl movie being something on its own and it wouldn't be half bad, but there's an immense disparity in writing and concept quality between the actual TKJ parts and the Batgirl parts, the batgirl stuff is terribly outclassed by TKJ material, even in this poor adaptation of it, not to mention completely unrelated themes and unnecessary backstory, which when mashed up together, create a foul tasting garbage plate.

 

[hockeyflow33]

Unlike some, I was okay with the chosen voice actors

There are people who don't like Conroy and Hamill doing the voice work?

Punch them for me


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[GasparZizou]

There are people who don't like Conroy and Hamill doing the voice work?

Not for this, and we were right, they didn't do anything to elevate any of this, and they only brought that TAS sentiment they always bring into stuff, which is always so welcome, but wasn't appropriate for this.

You could say they didn't make it worse either, I guess.

 

[Johnny1378]

There are people who don't like Conroy and Hamill doing the voice work?

Punch them for me


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Lol. I'm certainly not going to ever complain about more Conroy and Hamill voice acting in the animated features and video games. I guess I can understand the point of view of people who maybe thought they were too closely associated with the Animated Series to be a good fit for a much darker Batman story. Or maybe some people just thought that this movie would have been a good opportunity to try a different take on Batman and Joker's voice. Whatever the case, I've never had a problem with Conroy or Hamill. To me, they're kind of the gold standard, as far as the animated stuff goes.