The Amazing Spider Man 2 (2014)

[Silrian]

I wouldn't put it beyond the possibility that her mom freaks has ties to *epic drumroll* Oscorp and

Spoiler:

clones her

.

It's not the original in the comics either. In this franchise it's not exactly too far fetched.

 

[jye4ever]

@Jye I really don't believe in the superhero burn out thing at all yet. The problem off this film is that a large chunk of the audience can't see past the flaws in this film, and that coupled with reinventing aspects of the franchise that aren't to everybody's liking just make a large portion of the audience lose interest. Has nothing to do with superheroes or spider-man in general. This genre gets reinvigorated and remoulded constantly. Whether it's Thor's medevil war, Cap's thrillers, X-men's socially based drama, a human relationship drama like ASM1/2, Snyder's first contact, or Guardians space opera, it's almost impossible to even speak of superheroes as a genre because these films are getting heavy sub genres, which is smart and great, and attracts many audiences. The term superhero is almost as unspecific now as the term action hero and the action genre will never die. I don't see this burn out at all. If anything, it's starting to be refuelled every year.

This reboot is just a mess, it's that simple. Sony's forcing this franchise to be something that Webb and Arad clearly can't make ends meet with and that results in a mess. To many still a highly enjoyable mess, and there are some brilliant and even revolutionary beats to it, but a mess nonetheless.

Concerning Gwen: I think they should stay clear of MJ entirely. Have Black Cat in there flirting with Spider-man and then what I'd love to see is

Spoiler:

Gwen as Carnage. Seriously, I'd love to see Emma go villainous. Seems the perfect future way to go to me if Emma's up for it.

Here is my prediction.

Total burn out occurs after the very awesome Avengers 2.

BvsS 1 year delay seals its fate, movie complete financial disaster.

 

[DiFabio]

Cinematically, I'm not sure where else Spider-Man can go.

We've seen the classic interpretation, we've seen the ultimate interpretation. We've seen him in High School, we've seen him in College. We've seen him at the Daily Bugle, we've seen him work with the Daily Bugle. There's been Mary Jane, there's been Gwen Stacy. We've seen old man Stacey from the comics and the younger interpretation with Dennis Leary. Three Goblins, Ock, Sandman, Venom, Electro and kinda/sort of Rhino. The origin has been more than covered. We get the whole thing with Aunt May. We get "with great power comes great responsibility" and the toll being Spider-Man takes on Peter Parker. We get the romance crap of "I can't be with you, I'm Spider-Man . . . no wait, yes I can!". Other than some more symbiote ****, Peter Parker clones and the whole "Peter gets married to MJ" stuff (i.e. the things that most fans could do without), what else is there for film?

I think that's the biggest problem Spider-Man 3 and even ASM 2 ran into. What else do you do? The whole thing seems exhausted, especially after the different plot strands and villains. Sony seems to think the answer is more villains, but after ASM 2, is that really going to help?



And before we see the "well you hater, what about the MCU, I'm getting sick of that ****", I don't see it lasting past a phase 3. I think Avengers 2: Age of Ultron and/or Cap 3 will be the tipping point. I'm sure they'll be fine, great even, but really, how much more can you do? That's ridiculous if they're thinking about an Iron Man 4. The character of Stark (which so far has been fantastic, I think) is already starting to feel played out. Give Stark/Iron Man and Robert Downey Jr. a nice send off with Age of Ultron and be done with it. Then follow suite with Evan's Steve Rogers, etc.

 

[The Phantom]

I think the $64,000 question is:

Where does Sony go from here?

They have to be going nuts over there. This movie all in cost $400 million, and to date it hasn't even brought in double that, even with the foreign box office.

So what now? Do they go forward with a sequel?

I guess they can forget any thoughts of "universe building", I doubt that's going to happen. I don't think a Venom film is in the cards now.

Do they just combine the Sinister Six idea with ASM3? What will that cost? Do they spend $500 million on that, and cross their fingers?

These guys are really screwed...They can't reboot after setting up their expensive movie for another chapter, they can't sell the rights back to Disney (well they can, but Disney not going to pay top dollar for a character they already own), and they can't double down on the next film.
They also can't just sit on the rights and wait like Warner can. They have to have a movie in production by a certain date, and you can bet that Disney will hold them to that.

And what's crazy is that Disney doesn't even NEED Spider-man. They can just wait Sony out. Disney has films on the docket for what, the next ten years? Not to mention the sequels to Thor and Captain America both made more than ASM2, so why would Disney worry?

My prediction? Sony's CEO steps down (not just for Spidey, but the 4 bombs they had last summer), or is asked to leave (take your pick), and the rights revert back to the house of mouse.

Probably not what some want to hear, but I think Sony has no choice at this point.

 

[Niltusk]

They'd never do it, but if there was an IM4, they should end with the death of Stark. Yeah, Hot Toys, I said it.
Seriously, if they're going to Bond a role, have a more charismatic person play Rhodey and Stark stays dead. Lasting repercussions in a filmverse, unthinkable, I know, but I think it would be a great ending to a great iron man who hasn't gotten movies to live up to what he started with.

 

[Niltusk]

I think the $64,000 question is:

Where does Sony go from here?

They have to be going nuts over there. This movie all in cost $400 million, and to date it hasn't even brought in double that, even with the foreign box office.

So what now? Do they go forward with a sequel?

I guess they can forget any thoughts of "universe building", I doubt that's going to happen. I don't think a Venom film is in the cards now.

Do they just combine the Sinister Six idea with ASM3? What will that cost? Do they spend $500 million on that, and cross their fingers?

These guys are really screwed...They can't reboot after setting up their expensive movie for another chapter, they can't sell the rights back to Disney (well they can, but Disney not going to pay top dollar for a character they already own), and they can't double down on the next film.
They also can't just sit on the rights and wait like Warner can. They have to have a movie in production by a certain date, and you can bet that Disney will hold them to that.

And what's crazy is that Disney doesn't even NEED Spider-man. They can just wait Sony out. Disney has films on the docket for what, the next ten years? Not to mention the sequels to Thor and Captain America both made more than ASM2, so why would Disney worry?

My prediction? Sony's CEO steps down, or is asked to leave (take your pick), and the rights revert back to the house of mouse.

Probably not what some want to hear, but I think Sony has no choice at this point.

From all reports, they're 100 mil from 'breaking even'.

I'm sure that's not what they were shooting for, but I think they're at least going to make it to the finish line on this one.

 

[crows]

I think the $64,000 question is:

Where does Sony go from here?

They have to be going nuts over there. This movie all in cost $400 million, and to date it hasn't even brought in double that, even with the foreign box office.

So what now? Do they go forward with a sequel?

I guess they can forget any thoughts of "universe building", I doubt that's going to happen. I don't think a Venom film is in the cards now.

Do they just combine the Sinister Six idea with ASM3? What will that cost? Do they spend $500 million on that, and cross their fingers?

These guys are really screwed...They can't reboot after setting up their expensive movie for another chapter, they can't sell the rights back to Disney (well they can, but Disney not going to pay top dollar for a character they already own), and they can't double down on the next film.
They also can't just sit on the rights and wait like Warner can. They have to have a movie in production by a certain date, and you can bet that Disney will hold them to that.

And what's crazy is that Disney doesn't even NEED Spider-man. They can just wait Sony out. Disney has films on the docket for what, the next ten years? Not to mention the sequels to Thor and Captain America both made more than ASM2, so why would Disney worry?

My prediction? Sony's CEO steps down, or is asked to leave (take your pick), and the rights revert back to the house of mouse.

Probably not what some want to hear, but I think Sony has no choice at this point.

what did you think of the Raimi films?

 

[The Phantom]

What reports are you talking about? This movie cost $250 million to make and another $150 million to market. Even if they made another 100 mill (which isn't likely at this time, it still wouldn't be close to breaking even.

 

[Niltusk]

Hmmm, I read the fool, forbes, and a couple other financial sites, try Google I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find, but I'm pretty sure that latest 100 mil statement was from the fool. Where is your info coming from since you appear to be a little ahead of people who do finances for a living?

 

[Bmutha]

Hmmm, I read the fool, forbes, and a couple other financial sites, try Google I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find, but I'm pretty sure that latest 100 mil statement was from the fool. Where is your info coming from since you appear to be a little ahead of people who do finances for a living?

Ok, I ask in all honesty here, but from what I can find the movie has made around $633 million worldwide. Is that no good? That is box office only...how much will be made in toys and blu-ray sales...

Is there some rule of thumb to judge whether a movie is enough of a success?

 

[Silrian]

It's at 633 mil? That should at least get it into the black. That's definitely enoughto warrant a sequel.

I think if anybidy steps down it's Webb.

 

[jye4ever]

Cinematically, I'm not sure where else Spider-Man can go.

We've seen the classic interpretation, we've seen the ultimate interpretation. We've seen him in High School, we've seen him in College. We've seen him at the Daily Bugle, we've seen him work with the Daily Bugle. There's been Mary Jane, there's been Gwen Stacy. We've seen old man Stacey from the comics and the younger interpretation with Dennis Leary. Three Goblins, Ock, Sandman, Venom, Electro and kinda/sort of Rhino. The origin has been more than covered. We get the whole thing with Aunt May. We get "with great power comes great responsibility" and the toll being Spider-Man takes on Peter Parker. We get the romance crap of "I can't be with you, I'm Spider-Man . . . no wait, yes I can!". Other than some more symbiote ****, Peter Parker clones and the whole "Peter gets married to MJ" stuff (i.e. the things that most fans could do without), what else is there for film?

I think that's the biggest problem Spider-Man 3 and even ASM 2 ran into. What else do you do? The whole thing seems exhausted, especially after the different plot strands and villains. Sony seems to think the answer is more villains, but after ASM 2, is that really going to help?



And before we see the "well you hater, what about the MCU, I'm getting sick of that ****", I don't see it lasting past a phase 3. I think Avengers 2: Age of Ultron and/or Cap 3 will be the tipping point. I'm sure they'll be fine, great even, but really, how much more can you do? That's ridiculous if they're thinking about an Iron Man 4. The character of Stark (which so far has been fantastic, I think) is already starting to feel played out. Give Stark/Iron Man and Robert Downey Jr. a nice send off with Age of Ultron and be done with it. Then follow suite with Evan's Steve Rogers, etc.

This is your brain on too much cinematic Spiderman:

 

[Silrian]

The irony of marvel's biggest character being ripe for crossover films and yet it's the one that's stuck isolated.

 

[a-dev]

I see a lot of people don't seem to like the idea of Spiderman mixing with other superheroes. I'd love to see it personally.

 

[Bardoon]

Sony won't let it go, $633 million is still highly successful and the movie is still in theaters. It'll probably catch some more during Memorial Day weekend.

In comparison, it's right behind Thor: the Dark World which has $644 million, not far from Man of Steel's $668 million and Cap 2 is up at $703 million.

The bad reviews definitely hurt it some as well as stiff summer competition but it's far from a failure.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Cinematically, I'm not sure where else Spider-Man can go.

We've seen the classic interpretation, we've seen the ultimate interpretation. We've seen him in High School, we've seen him in College. We've seen him at the Daily Bugle, we've seen him work with the Daily Bugle. There's been Mary Jane, there's been Gwen Stacy. We've seen old man Stacey from the comics and the younger interpretation with Dennis Leary. Three Goblins, Ock, Sandman, Venom, Electro and kinda/sort of Rhino. The origin has been more than covered. We get the whole thing with Aunt May. We get "with great power comes great responsibility" and the toll being Spider-Man takes on Peter Parker. We get the romance crap of "I can't be with you, I'm Spider-Man . . . no wait, yes I can!". Other than some more symbiote ****, Peter Parker clones and the whole "Peter gets married to MJ" stuff (i.e. the things that most fans could do without), what else is there for film?

I think that's the biggest problem Spider-Man 3 and even ASM 2 ran into. What else do you do? The whole thing seems exhausted, especially after the different plot strands and villains. Sony seems to think the answer is more villains, but after ASM 2, is that really going to help?

Well we haven't really seen much of him at college, they could explore that in ASM3. There's plenty of untapped villains to use and they can each provide a story for each movie, the trouble would be where Peter goes with his life, he can't keep being the loser guy with no direction as that gets stale, they should expand his cast of supporting characters and not kill them off or turn them into villains, at the moment all he had is Aunt May everyone else is dead or turned villain.

They could however go completely off the wall and do a Spider-Man 2099 which would introduce new, different characters and a setting that would attract Sci-fi fans. Or do Spider-Man Noir.

However I think there's story potential there with the current franchise but the bulk will come from the villains stories more than the Parker stories.

SThe bad reviews definitely hurt it some as well as stiff summer competition but it's far from a failure.

 

[jye4ever]

Not all is lost:

International:

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 added $31.5 million this weekend, which brings its foreign total to $461 million. That ranks first among 2014 releases ahead of Captain America: The Winter Soldier ($452.8 million). Even with X-Men opening everywhere this coming weekend, Spider-Man 2 should still be able to get past $500 million by the end of its run.

That being said:

Captain America: The Winter Soldier reached $700 million worldwide this weekend. It's currently the highest-grossing 2014 release.

And then this:

Frozen held on to first place in Japan for the 10th weekend in a row. It now ranks sixth all-time there with $179.6 million. On a worldwide basis, it passed $1.2 billion, and it should move up to fifth place ahead of Iron Man 3 ($1.215 billion) next weekend.

 

[Niltusk]

Ok, I ask in all honesty here, but from what I can find the movie has made around $633 million worldwide. Is that no good? That is box office only...how much will be made in toys and blu-ray sales...

Is there some rule of thumb to judge whether a movie is enough of a success?

When the article was written it was at 570 worldwide, so it's closer, I don't think it's a 'is that good' or 'this movie did this' type of thing. I'm pretty sure anyone who owns Spiderman is expecting a homerun, not a base hit to keep in the game.

I don't think there's a rule of thumb, seems most companies judge on quite a few factors. Obviously more money will always help.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Not all is lost:

International:

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 added $31.5 million this weekend, which brings its foreign total to $461 million. That ranks first among 2014 releases ahead of Captain America: The Winter Soldier ($452.8 million). Even with X-Men opening everywhere this coming weekend, Spider-Man 2 should still be able to get past $500 million by the end of its run.

That being said:

Captain America: The Winter Soldier reached $700 million worldwide this weekend. It's currently the highest-grossing 2014 release.

And then this:

Frozen held on to first place in Japan for the 10th weekend in a row. It now ranks sixth all-time there with $179.6 million. On a worldwide basis, it passed $1.2 billion, and it should move up to fifth place ahead of Iron Man 3 ($1.215 billion) next weekend.

It's funny isn't it. This movie is thought of as a flop or a bomb but it's the highest grossing movie internationally and the second highest domestically.

 

[jye4ever]

Yup.

But man that Frozen.