Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Adolfo]

While I somewhat agree, I think the push is just that they are actually trying to show a hero different from a white male, something that is was never really done until very recently.

So it feels like it’s being forced. It is especially true in a film where that angle was very rarely shown or shown to a much lesser extent. (Leia)

Hunger Games was always about a female lead. Harry Potter advances females for major roles....

Other than those, female leads still are the rare exception, not the rule.


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It goes well beyond the honky male thing...way beyond...religion,Govt,the entire past 40 1/2 years...They spit on their own ancestors, They spit on the Force and Star Wars itself...again Hunger games remained true, Harry Potter the same....TLJ was nothing but a disguised execution that failed to disguise

 

[The Pawn]

Yep once for me too. I live out in the country in Deadwood SD so a trip to the movies is full day event. I saw TFA 3 times but there is no way I can see the Capitalism Trump rants of Blite, or Rose's punchable face. I didn't like the PT but I never had hate or resent for them like this movie. It's makes me embarrassed how upset it made me.

When Rose died at the end of the film after that very awkward “I did it for love moment!” Gag! I thought at least they killed her off. But Nooooooooo...Disney needed to be PC and bring her back to life for some stupid reason.

 

[Adolfo]

When Rose died at the end of the film after that very awkward “I did it for love moment!” Gag! I thought at least they killed her off. But Nooooooooo...Disney needed to be PC and bring her back to life for some stupid reason.

IRL after the crash I woulda treated her like Lt Dan and Gump after the rescue..."Why the F did you do that you stupid Btch!"

 

[Adolfo]

I hate that BB droid because it has the number 8 in it

 

[Lakhota]

I hate to admit it but I have no clue how twitter works, are there fans blasting Rian with legitimate complaints? Has he responded in any way. I am not promoting bulling but coherently expressing your opinion is what social media is all about. Has Disney or KK said anything in regards to the fans outrage? I cant imagine a Star Wars Celebration Con with Rian, Rose or any others going very well.

 

[klwn]

I hate to admit it but I have no clue how twitter works, are there fans blasting Rian with legitimate complaints? Has he responded in any way. I am not promoting bulling but coherently expressing your opinion is what social media is all about. Has Disney or KK said anything in regards to the fans outrage? I cant imagine a Star Wars Celebration Con with Rian, Rose or any others going very well.

I don't use twitter either but this page compiles all the negative reactions, a lot of them directed at Rian Johnson and the official SW twitter account:

https://twitter.com/TLJsucks

There have been a few instances of Lucasfilm people trying to defend the movie against fans, especially on facebook and twitter I think (only saw screenshots).

 

[JAWS]

Or some people can actually form their own opinions on movies that they view and do not need these opinions to be shaped and molded by strangers on the Internet

Who said anything about opinions being molded?? This guy just perfectly articulated the problems...

You sound like you are burring your head in the sand

 

[abake]

I think a lot of people are totally fine with a female lead but take issue with Rey's total lack of training, when it's been well established that great power in the Force takes tremendous practice, no matter how naturally gifted you are.
Like a guy was pointing out on YT, to create an actual struggle and make her more relatable, she should also have lost to Kylo Ren in this one, to then come back and defeat him. Now we can just assume she'll defeat him in IX without ever having faced real failure against him.

But really I think Rey is a small part of the issue, it's more about how they introduced Holdo, basically giving her a role that should have been Ackbar's or even Leia's.
They even made Poe kind of a sexist to really hammer their point.

The irony is that someone like me fully "agrees" with their agenda (even the animal rights part, that's actually super important to me), but it has to be done really well and not affect the story being told, ESPECIALLY with Star Wars. Star Wars is the last franchise to use as a testing ground for this kind of stuff.
Female characters are awesome in Marvel movies (I'll admit they don't have huge roles yet but it's getting there), I don't understand why under the same parent company, Lucasfilm screwed up so bad.

The issue is that the entire movie is so badly written it makes the "message" (agenda, if you will) look and sound stupid and childish.
For all those who deride George Lucas' writing, remember how strong the female characters in the OT and PT were. Leia and Amidala/Padmé are great characters, they lead by example, they make difficult decisions, they have their own conflicts and overcome them. You want political messages? You want social commentary? Shades of grey instead of simple black and white? Emotional conflict? Anything in the OT or PT handled any of those things better than TLJ.
Hell, you don't even have to go that far: RO tackles all of those themes and makes a great movie.

TLJ is quite simply a badly written, badly directed movie. Quite incompetent, actually.

 

[JAWS]

That’s a great point that makes me wonder now.

I wonder if Disney/Kennedy/Rian were afraid of a backlash had they made TLJ “safe” by giving what everyone wanted/predicted was supposed to happen after TFA BUT NOW after this backlash they will be forced to go that direction in 9.

Jeremy Johns put it perfectly in his spoiler review by bringing up Goldie Locks and three bears.

Does it have to be Too cold or too Hot.. How about just right.. Have some shocks and keep it feeling classic.

If I burnt my hand yesterday does that mean I should not complain when my hand freezes the next?

TFA played it a bit too safe but its biggest crime was It just lacked an original story.

TLJ may have been different but its biggest crime is an engaging and intelligent plot.

There is a place in the middle there and it does not have to be one extreme or the other.

 

[aa909]

Who said anything about opinions being molded?? This guy just perfectly articulated the problems...

You sound like you are burring your head in the sand

Keep in mind, if you dislike and criticize this movie you're basically a sexist, racist, threatened by women, and just "didn't get it" LMAO!!!

 

[klwn]

The issue is that the entire movie is so badly written it makes the "message" (agenda, if you will) look and sound stupid and childish.
For all those who deride George Lucas' writing, remember how strong the female characters in the OT and PT were. Leia and Amidala/Padmé are great characters, they lead by example, they make difficult decisions, they have their own conflicts and overcome them. You want political messages? You want social commentary? Shades of grey instead of simple black and white? Emotional conflict? Anything in the OT or PT handled any of those things better than TLJ.
Hell, you don't even have to go that far: RO tackles all of those themes and makes a great movie.

TLJ is quite simply a badly written, badly directed movie. Quite incompetent, actually.

Jeremy Johns put it perfectly in his spoiler review by bringing up Goldie Locks and three bears.

Does it have to be Too cold or too Hot.. How about just right.. Have some shocks and keep it feeling classic.

If I burnt my hand yesterday does that mean I should not complain when my hand freezes the next?

TFA played it a bit too safe but its biggest crime was It just lacked an original story.

TLJ may have been different but its biggest crime is an engaging and intelligent plot.

There is a place in the middle there and it does not have to be one extreme or the other.

Yes, I really liked that part in Jeremy's video because that's what I had been saying all along, it's all about balance.
People sound ridiculous when they say "so first it was too similar but now you say it's too different? there's no pleasing you".

There is a reason making a good movie is so damn hard. It's a perfect balance of many aspects, Star Wars or not Star Wars.
Just because you subvert expectations doesn't make you a genius. Well, except in Rian Johnson's case apparently, a true visionary.

 

[Lakhota]

Oh man could you imagine if this was all contrived to create controversy and keep us talking about the movie. Disney's biggest troll and lolz when they explain it all in episode 9. I for certain think this isn't the case but they could surely after the fact say it was.

 

[klwn]

Oh man could you imagine if this was all contrived to create controversy and keep us talking about the movie. Disney's biggest troll and lolz when they explain it all in episode 9. I for certain think this isn't the case but they could surely after the fact say it was.

There is a fair chance IX will actually kinda look like that. I mean it's gonna address the backlash.
Then the people who defended VIII will be like "see, they knew exactly what they were doing, you got what you wanted and Rian fooled you all with his 195 IQ and unlimited lore knowledge".

 

[Adolfo]

Boobahs, Teletubbies, Cayou, Blues Clues,and whatever damn show an old guy like me was forced to watch with my kids > TLJ

 

[xipotec]

It goes well beyond the honky male thing...way beyond...religion,Govt,the entire past 40 1/2 years...They spit on their own ancestors, They spit on the Force and Star Wars itself...again Hunger games remained true, Harry Potter the same....TLJ was nothing but a disguised execution that failed to disguise

That’s sort of my point....maybe it was not suppose to be disguised?

I mean it is a new SW lead by a female producer who is vocal about women’s rights?

Disney has been trying for many years to be inclusive of as many cultures and religions as possible. Which is in their financial interest to do so. As a stock holder , I agree with that call.

What people are pushing against is they want SW to remand the same, and not be a female lead with amazing powers. Has Rey been Ryan I doubt the complaining would have been as loud. Especially the agenda word, which makes me ill every time someone says it...

Had Anakin been Annakin, I am quite sure the same arguments would have been waged.

Fact is many people spit out the word Agenda to make it seem like a vast conspiracy is afoot to change their beliefs or corrupt their children or something....it’s real tin foil hat stuff....persecution complex....

Female producer makes female strong film? Well yeah?!??

I think it would be better for people to drop the code words as flat out say they do not like female leads or many changes to the OT they grew up with.

The whole argument of Rey not being trained, too powerful , etc etc is the real code words for some folks who just do not want to see a female character out perform the male hero’s of their youth without justifiable cause.....

But why not?


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[aa909]

The issue is that the entire movie is so badly written it makes the "message" (agenda, if you will) look and sound stupid and childish.
For all those who deride George Lucas' writing, remember how strong the female characters in the OT and PT were. Leia and Amidala/Padmé are great characters, they lead by example, they make difficult decisions, they have their own conflicts and overcome them. You want political messages? You want social commentary? Shades of grey instead of simple black and white? Emotional conflict? Anything in the OT or PT handled any of those things better than TLJ.
Hell, you don't even have to go that far: RO tackles all of those themes and makes a great movie.

TLJ is quite simply a badly written, badly directed movie. Quite incompetent, actually.

well articulated points... Avatar is an example of a movie with an agenda that was well written and didn't feel preachy and was entertaining. TLJ on the other hand feels like they got in a room and KK said "here's my vision, I want the following messages in the film, now go put a script and cast around it... and don't feel pressured to stick to any plot lines that came before in the previous 7 movies... and make sure it's really really funny too. GO!"

 

[JAWS]

While I somewhat agree, I think the push is just that they are actually trying to show a hero different from a white male, something that is was never really done until very recently.

So it feels like it’s being forced. It is especially true in a film where that angle was very rarely shown or shown to a much lesser extent. (Leia)

Hunger Games was always about a female lead. Harry Potter advances females for major roles....

Other than those, female leads still are the rare exception, not the rule.


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RO did the female lead hero perfectly.. Gave us a great line also.... She was the Best soldier in Saw Gerrera's story.

Having strong female characters is fine / hero is fine.. But not at the expense of story.. Rey not "earning her powers is the issue people have the issue with.. Not that she is female.

Yes female hero's are kinda new (in the big picture) But there have been many Kick Ass woman in movies recently.. Atomic Blond, The Matrix, Black Widow, Fury Road, Aliens, ALIEN 3, Terminator 2, The Fast and Furious films, Hunger Games, Kick Ass, Kill Bill, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Resident Evil, Salt, Laura Croft, Underworld, Buffy, The Fifth Element, Several Different Bond Woman, Wonder Woman.... And Leia was a BAD ASS in SW and TESB

Its been going on for a while.. Like I said RO is a great example of having no issue in our SW films.. Rey has the Mary Sue issue right now...

 

[Asta]

There was also the pro-vegetarian message, and anti-animal cruelty.

So, not an evil agenda. Unless you're in the meat industry.

There was also anti-capitalism, which was a very strange agenda to put through a Disney movie. The Mouse didn't see that one coming, or going.

 

[abake]

Oh man could you imagine if this was all contrived to create controversy and keep us talking about the movie. Disney's biggest troll and lolz when they explain it all in episode 9. I for certain think this isn't the case but they could surely after the fact say it was.

There is a fair chance IX will actually kinda look like that. I mean it's gonna address the backlash.
Then the people who defended VIII will be like "see, they knew exactly what they were doing, you got what you wanted and Rian fooled you all with his 195 IQ and unlimited lore knowledge".

They'll probably backtrack a lot with Ep. IX, but it won't disguise the fact that TLJ is a bad movie.

 

[xipotec]

RO did the female lead hero perfectly.. Gave us a great line also.... She was the Best soldier in Saw Gerrera's story.

Having strong female characters is fine.. This film felt a little like it may have had an agenda beyond that.

Yes female hero's are kinda new... But there have been many Kick Ass woman in movies recently.. Atomic Blond, The Matrix, Black Widow, Fury Road, Aliens, ALIEN 3, Terminator 2, The Fast and Furious films, Hunger Games, Kick Ass, Kill Bill, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Resident Evil, Salt, Laura Croft, Underworld, Buffy, The Fifth Element, Several Different Bond Woman, Wonder Woman.... And Leia was a BAD ASS in SW and TESB

Its been going on for a while.. Like I said RO is a great example of having no issue in our SW films.. Rey has the Mary Sue issue right now... And Dern McPurple not only seemed to have an agenda behind her story.. She was one of the less intelligent characters in the series also. Hmmmmm Maybe the message was pro male

Good points, although most of the films you list HAVE male leads with female 2ndary leads.




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