Marvel's Iron Fist: The Netflix Series

[RIDDICK]

Cage is so self identified as a Black superhero from Harlem it just wouldn't be the same character.

They're black, end of story. It's bad enough the majority of protagonists are white males.
Race-bending the few that are not, is not something that I'd approve.

New alter ego is the only option when you want to race-bend a classic character.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Nah, there's no wiggle room with characters such as Cage, Panther, Falcon, Blade, War Machine, etc, etc and there shouldn't be.

Well of course not those characters you mentioned, but deep in the etc, etc department I disagree.

 

[RIDDICK]

Pretty sure making Snowflame black would be considered racist.

 

[Victοr]

Well of course not those characters you mentioned, but deep in the etc, etc department I disagree.

Like who? The only characters that have wiggle-room are the ones that mixed race already, like say, Namor. Most black characters are either African-American or African, with a few exceptions here and there. I'm not seeing any wiggle-room there, especially if we're talking about a guy such as Bautista. The guy's clearly an "olive-white", I don't see how he could play any version of Cage.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Like who?

That's the etc point I was making. You are just thing about heroes, I'm talking characters of all types. Villains, heroes, whatever.

But I do wish they had changed Darwin in Xmen first class considering the way they killed him in that movie. Shameful.

 

[Victοr]

That's the etc point I was making. You are just thing about heroes, I'm talking characters of all types. Villains, heroes, whatever.

But I do wish they had changed Darwin in Xmen first class considering the way they killed him in that movie. Shameful.

And I'm asking again. Like who? I can't think of anyone that could get away with being race-bended and it not coming out bad.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

And I'm asking again. Like who? I can't think of anyone that could get away with being race-bended and it not coming out bad.

There are throwaway characters that some of us have never heard of. I remember a Spider-Man comic with a black character who was bitten by a radioactive rabbit. A ****ing rabbit. Trust me, black people are willing to give away some characters in the racial draft.

 

[Victοr]

There are throwaway characters that some of us have never heard of. I remember a Spider-Man comic with a black character who was bitten by a radioactive rabbit. A ****ing rabbit. Trust me, black people are willing to give away some characters in the racial draft.

Ah, so you're talking about Z-Listers and such. Eh, considering we're never going to see them in the big or small screen, I don't think it matters... Speaking of Spider-Man and Z-Listers, you know who I'd love to see show up? Prowler. That guy's costume was tight!

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Ah, so you're talking about Z-Listers and such. Eh, considering we're never going to see them in the big or small screen, I don't think it matters... Speaking of Spider-Man and Z-Listers, you know who I'd love to see show up? Prowler. That guy's costume was tight!

Oh yeah, got a few Spidey comics with Prowler. I loved the way McFarlane drew him and his costume had a cool color scheme. I'm not sure how it would translate into the task world though. It would be nice to see him in the MCU but they would have to change his background a bit. The thief with a good heart that turns into a hero has been done already.

 

[Victοr]

Oh yeah, got a few Spidey comics with Prowler. I loved the way McFarlane drew him and his costume had a cool color scheme. I'm not sure how it would translate into the task world though. It would be nice to see him in the MCU but they would have to change his background a bit. The thief with a good heart that turns into a hero has been done already.

Eh, Prowler was never a really developed character. He just had a cool costume and was likeable enough. But he is a supporting character in ANAD TASM, so that's something. As for his origin being cliche, well, most things have been done already. What matters is the execution, not so much the concept itself.

 

[karamazov80]

Decisions with comic characters change so much that it's hard for me to care too much about any decision relating to who they are nowadays. You've got gender bending (Thor and Loki into women), race changing (in terms of skin color and alien background, from time to time), changing from a good to bad guy or bad to good guy, changing from a normal guy to a psycho, just retconning out the wazoo. So nothing seems particularly sacred anymore.

Luke Cage was essentially a glorified version of Shaft in his original incarnation. Now, he's a bit more generic from what I've seen. His identity isn't tied into black anger and social oppression in the TV show. Not sure if it is in the comic or not, but if they take that away, then it's not applicable to the other media format. Similarly, Falcon was initially a social worker working in poverty stricken areas of New York. And at one point, he was a pimp. The movie version is pretty dang far removed from that, as well. So, he loses the social relevance that the character once had. For both of these characters, at this point, the retention of the black race is more a cosmetic decision than anything else. And at that point, does it matter anymore?

Black Panther is something where you can make a stronger argument, because in the movies he is still fundamentally connected to a non-colonized African country. But I'm more concerned with changes to intrinsic personality characteristics and motivations. And there, I blame the comics as much as the movies/TV shows in a case like Luke Cage or Tony Stark (in the latter case, his movie incarnation had an effect on the comic version). One of the biggest offenders there is Nick Fury. I don't care that he's black, but I do care that he's Ultimates Fury (i.e., Samuel L. Jackson in any given role) and not the grizzled, battle hardened warrior that 616 Fury always was.

 

[Victοr]

Decisions with comic characters change so much that it's hard for me to care too much about any decision relating to who they are nowadays. You've got gender bending (Thor and Loki into women), race changing (in terms of skin color and alien background, from time to time), changing from a good to bad guy or bad to good guy, changing from a normal guy to a psycho, just retconning out the wazoo. So nothing seems particularly sacred anymore.

Luke Cage was essentially a glorified version of Shaft in his original incarnation. Now, he's a bit more generic from what I've seen. His identity isn't tied into black anger and social oppression in the TV show. Not sure if it is in the comic or not, but if they take that away, then it's not applicable to the other media format. Similarly, Falcon was initially a social worker working in poverty stricken areas of New York. And at one point, he was a pimp. The movie version is pretty dang far removed from that, as well. So, he loses the social relevance that the character once had. For both of these characters, at this point, the retention of the black race is more a cosmetic decision than anything else. And at that point, does it matter anymore?

Black Panther is something where you can make a stronger argument, because in the movies he is still fundamentally connected to a non-colonized African country. But I'm more concerned with changes to intrinsic personality characteristics and motivations. And there, I blame the comics as much as the movies/TV shows in a case like Luke Cage or Tony Stark (in the latter case, his movie incarnation had an effect on the comic version). One of the biggest offenders there is Nick Fury. I don't care that he's black, but I do care that he's Ultimates Fury (i.e., Samuel L. Jackson in any given role) and not the grizzled, battle hardened warrior that 616 Fury always was.

1) "Snap Wilson" has been retconned. I don't remember when or in what vol, but it's been scrapped.

2) Truth. Ultimate Fury, while cool, just doesn't touch the greatness of OG Fury. But, then again, they really couldn't do him justice in the MCU. The best Fury stories are Ennis', with Hickman's Secret Warriors a close second, and the original stories following in the 3rd place. The more complex Nick is, the more psychotic and violent he is, so they couldn't really translate that in any way in the big screen. "My war gone by" was damn brutal...

 

[kryptonianmutie]

With Nick Fury I think it depends on what comics you read. The personality characteristics of the MCU Fury is very similar to what I remember him having in the comics before Ultimates, but I never read the definitive Nick Fury stories.

 

[karamazov80]

Well if you go through the Howling Commandos stuff, to Steranko's work, to his involvement in comics in the '80s (particularly in Captain America though in various other comics), you couldn't have a starker difference in his character. Though he may have become a smooth, SLJ bad-ass in the 2000s prior to the Avengers movie for all I know. I stopped reading by then.

1) "Snap Wilson" has been retconned. I don't remember when or in what vol, but it's been scrapped.

The same could be said for Cage's original personality and antics.

 

[Victοr]

With Nick Fury I think it depends on what comics you read. The personality characteristics of the MCU Fury is very similar to what I remember him having in the comics before Ultimates, but I never read the definitive Nick Fury stories.

Ultimate Fury, as the Universe progressed became more and more of a ****, akin to 616 Fury. But, thing is, he's still "bad-ass secretive spy" which, while cool, and admittedly Jackson could be far closer to 616 Fury if the script allowed it, just doesn't have the depth of 616 or rather MAX Fury. In those comics he's not portrayed as a hero. Much like the Punisher, he's a violent psychopath who longs for war and carnage. He doesn't want to admit that, but deep down, he knows that's what he is. It's an extra layer that allows for a deeper understanding of the character. But 616 ain't too far behind. Hickman did some AMAZING work with him during Secret Warriors. Heck, Agents of SHIELD is basically adapting Hickman's ideas at this point.

 

[Victοr]

The same could be said for Cage's original personality and antics.

They made it out so that he was either mind-controlled by the Red Skull or that Snap Wilson was a decoy or something. AFAIK, it ranges from non-canon to "LMD" territory. As for Cage, eh, that's kinda different. I'd call that character progression. Good or bad, nothing was retconned, just retooled as time went on. I will admit that old-school Cage was a more entertaining character, but "Dad-Cage" is pretty dang fun as well.

 

[karamazov80]

Much like the Punisher, he's a violent psychopath who longs for war and carnage.

Well based on what I've read of him, I wouldn't say that this applies to the Nick Fury I know. He does become a spy, and that defines who he is really. The Steranko stuff was all about that. But he isn't smooth Jules Winnfield type. He's coarse and gruff. That is as defining a trait for him as anything. He wouldn't wear stylish leather and try to be the coolest guy in the room at all times.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Steranko's work.

That's what I meant by definitive Nick Fury. Not definitive for me, but when I was collecting that's what everybody was raving about when it came to Fury.

 

[Victοr]

Well based on what I've read of him, I wouldn't say that this applies to the Nick Fury I know. He does become a spy, and that defines who he is really. The Steranko stuff was all about that. But he isn't smooth Jules Winnfield type. He's coarse and gruff. That is as defining a trait for him as anything. He wouldn't wear stylish leather and try to be the coolest guy in the room at all times.

Eh, Nick's evolved since then. The last time someone wrote Nick well was Hickman, who more or less wrote him like Steranko. Cold, efficient, but not a heartless bastard... Well, depends on your definition of that. Still, he had his pals, his code of honour, Contessa, all of that. Ennis' however, well... He was a psychopath. Vulgar, brash, violent, dismissive of authority, matcho, etc. But he kept on the "I'm doing this for good" facade, while he knew that deep down, he wasn't any better than the "villains" themselves. I particularly liked "My war gone by" because it truly showcased that. Still, you can argue that that's a whole new universe, but, like Castle, that's my preferred version of him.

 

[karamazov80]

What do you expect from the guy behind Preacher? Apart from Punisher, I wouldn't really consider that guy's take on a traditional comic character personally.