MARVEL' S Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[Sassafras]

I thought this was a solid start but I agree there's a lot that has yet to be explained post-blip. Other than Happy showing up in FFH we don't really know much about the state of Stark Industries, do we? There should be some type of impact from having (presumably) half of your corporate personnel being wiped from existence for 5 years. Not that this is necessarily the show to explain that, but it could lead into it. Besides, Sam, Bucky, PP, etc., were all dead and Tony had moved on & started a family; Why would he have set up golden parachutes for people who didn't exist anymore? But once they came back you would think Pepper & Happy would step up.

Weeeeellll - that's kinda messy; 'coz supposedly Peter Parker would've been the heir apparent so in theory he would be taking care of pension plans? But Peter IMO is way too young to be thinking of stuff like that.

Economically Bucky is probably owed back pay and could have lawyers fighting for that; also probably has old Hydra stashes he could raid; meanwhile I was kinda dubious about Sam not being able to get a loan.

Yeah, I get the social aspects; but my family is military - there's VA loans and government credit unions for military and families. IMO ur first go-to for a loan, especially if u lived in DC for a while. IMO u wouldn't go to some town bank for a first choice. Plus Sam might be getting some kind of pension - just sayin'. if I had been with the writer, I would have said something, like "Navy Federal Credit Union for military and families, ya?"

But as a huge WS and Falcon fan, still *&^%$ at the Russos and their writers - yep, am really happy with Spellman and Skogland. Some great framing of the shots; can't find the quote from Spellman from way back, but remember reading a comment he made that made me real happy at the time; e.g., he more or less was saying these characters were HIS, now.

And I was real happy about that, because this writer was OWNING the characters for better or worse; vs. the Captain Marvel writers where (to me) it just sounded like they wanted to goof off. Spellman since has given a bunch of interviews, talking about his passion for the story he wanted to tell; and IMO that is really coming through with this series. PLUS he's a comic nerd!

I keep hammering on the writing - well, IMO that can make or break a lot, for me. Stan and Mackie are - stunningly good; reminded me of TWS with some Jason Bourne thrown in. Was even happy about the settings, including the deep South (yep, military family, was there too; so that's awesome for me)

 

[user 64404]

Weeeeellll - that's kinda messy; 'coz supposedly Peter Parker would've been the heir apparent so in theory he would be taking care of pension plans? But Peter IMO is way too young to be thinking of stuff like that.

Economically Bucky is probably owed back pay and could have lawyers fighting for that; also probably has old Hydra stashes he could raid; meanwhile I was kinda dubious about Sam not being able to get a loan.

Yeah, I get the social aspects; but my family is military - there's VA loans and government credit unions for military and families. IMO ur first go-to for a loan, especially if u lived in DC for a while. IMO u wouldn't go to some town bank for a first choice. Plus Sam might be getting some kind of pension - just sayin'. if I had been with the writer, I would have said something, like "Navy Federal Credit Union for military and families, ya?"

But as a huge WS and Falcon fan, still *&^%$ at the Russos and their writers - yep, am really happy with Spellman and Skogland. Some great framing of the shots; can't find the quote from Spellman from way back, but remember reading a comment he made that made me real happy at the time; e.g., he more or less was saying these characters were HIS, now.

And I was real happy about that, because this writer was OWNING the characters for better or worse; vs. the Captain Marvel writers where (to me) it just sounded like they wanted to goof off. Spellman since has given a bunch of interviews, talking about his passion for the story he wanted to tell; and IMO that is really coming through with this series. PLUS he's a comic nerd!

I keep hammering on the writing - well, IMO that can make or break a lot, for me. Stan and Mackie are - stunningly good; reminded me of TWS with some Jason Bourne thrown in. Was even happy about the settings, including the deep South (yep, military family, was there too; so that's awesome for me)

About the heir thing and pensions, Peter is like the adopted son of tony Stark, Pepper is the one controlling Stark Industries and Happy is the one who takes care of "superhero stuff".
I will be really down if in the future we see Peter complaining about how he is going to pay for college or to get a job to help aunt may. They already started the whole Stark legacy so let him continue in the Parker Industries path but this time with his own merit.

 

[The Buffinator]

Maybe it's because a few of his fellow teammates had families and died trying to save the world.

Point taken, but I mentioned Sam, Bucky and Peter and of those 3 only Peter was ever his "teammate" leading up to IW/EG and he was Aunt May's dependent. Sam and Bucky were at best "frienemies" in CW and subsequently were fugitives, so once they were dusted it wasn't on Tony to care for their families. Besides, Bucky had no family and Sam was single.

Weeeeellll - that's kinda messy; 'coz supposedly Peter Parker would've been the heir apparent so in theory he would be taking care of pension plans? But Peter IMO is way too young to be thinking of stuff like that.

Economically Bucky is probably owed back pay and could have lawyers fighting for that; also probably has old Hydra stashes he could raid; meanwhile I was kinda dubious about Sam not being able to get a loan.

Yeah, I get the social aspects; but my family is military - there's VA loans and government credit unions for military and families. IMO ur first go-to for a loan, especially if u lived in DC for a while. IMO u wouldn't go to some town bank for a first choice. Plus Sam might be getting some kind of pension - just sayin'. if I had been with the writer, I would have said something, like "Navy Federal Credit Union for military and families, ya?"

But as a huge WS and Falcon fan, still *&^%$ at the Russos and their writers - yep, am really happy with Spellman and Skogland. Some great framing of the shots; can't find the quote from Spellman from way back, but remember reading a comment he made that made me real happy at the time; e.g., he more or less was saying these characters were HIS, now.

And I was real happy about that, because this writer was OWNING the characters for better or worse; vs. the Captain Marvel writers where (to me) it just sounded like they wanted to goof off. Spellman since has given a bunch of interviews, talking about his passion for the story he wanted to tell; and IMO that is really coming through with this series. PLUS he's a comic nerd!

I keep hammering on the writing - well, IMO that can make or break a lot, for me. Stan and Mackie are - stunningly good; reminded me of TWS with some Jason Bourne thrown in. Was even happy about the settings, including the deep South (yep, military family, was there too; so that's awesome for me)

Back pay? Bucky was presumed dead back in the 1940s - anything his surviving family was entitled to would have surely been disbursed long ago, correct? Or are you arguing that he was technically still active military and a P.O.W. while Hydra had him on ice/assassinating countless people for 70+ years? Mind control or not, that'd be a tough case to win. Plus I doubt Bucky would want everyone knowing about all the innocent people he killed.

Excellent points about government loans / military credit unions being available to Sam - surprised Marvel missed that.

 

[TheDucky]

So refreshing to watch a GOOD superhero show with GOOD characters. Just what I needed to wash the **** stain of ZSJL away.

 

[TheDucky]

I find it impossible to believe that Tony "I think of everything" Stark wouldn't look after his team posthumously. I also can't believe Pepper and Happy would leave these people to fend for themselves without at least some kind of parachute. Massive plot contrivance creates massive hole. I thoroughly enjoy the MCU and liked this first episode a lot, but I think it's sloppy writing.

Sam might be too proud to take help. His own sister didn?t seem too pleased with him helping her. Sam might want to make the family business work through his family?s hard work and not from a handout.

 

[ZE_501]

[...]Other than Happy showing up in FFH we don't really know much about the state of Stark Industries, do we? There should be some type of impact from having (presumably) half of your corporate personnel being wiped from existence for 5 years.

Maybe so, but Stark Industries should have been in the 'too big to fail' category, even if they took a very bad hit. They had enough mature technology being thrown around and not *everyone* was gone.

[...]Besides, Sam, Bucky, PP, etc., were all dead and Tony had moved on & started a family; Why would he have set up golden parachutes for people who didn't exist anymore? But once they came back you would think Pepper & Happy would step up.

Yes to Pepper and Happy, but as jackollie says:

Maybe it's because a few of his fellow teammates had families and died trying to save the world.

Weeeeellll - that's kinda messy; 'coz supposedly Peter Parker would've been the heir apparent so in theory he would be taking care of pension plans? But Peter IMO is way too young to be thinking of stuff like that.

I'm not sure what you mean -- if Parker was ever considered an 'heir' it was in spirit only...

Economically Bucky is probably owed back pay and could have lawyers fighting for that; also probably has old Hydra stashes he could raid; meanwhile I was kinda dubious about Sam not being able to get a loan. [...] if I had been with the writer, I would have said something, like "Navy Federal Credit Union for military and families, ya?"

Bucky's a weird case, but Sam and his family? No way they'd be left out, by Stark, the US government, or banking institutions. It's a big miss in the writer's room, them trying to slide the past us as a dramatic device.

Sam might be too proud to take help. His own sister didn?t seem too pleased with him helping her. Sam might want to make the family business work through his family?s hard work and not from a handout.

Honestly, the "too proud" thing was the *first* thing that came to mind, but even the most patriotic war-fighters get paid and Sam is a major asset to the US government as well as someone who made the ultimate sacrifice during the events of Infinity War. I don't see having one's family looked after (on a basic level, I'm not saying they should live in mansions) or some kind of pension as a 'hand-out', and these are things that Stark would have thought of way ahead of time, because E.D.I.T.H.

(Even Dead I'm The Hero)

I get why they're doing it, as a dramatic device and perhaps also to address real-world issues around veterans maybe? I don't know enough about the latter to comment. I just find it implausible within the context of the MCU narrative when I think too long about it.

But it's an old Marvel trope. Literally save the world but wind up behind on rent. It's a thing they do to humanize the characters.

 

[darth dennis]

There's a lot more Economics in this thread than I ever thought I'd see. "Why doesn't Bucky have a portfolio, he's been alive for 106 years!". Reminds me of Cordelia saying that to Angel...something like "You've been alive a couple hundred years and couldn't develop an investment portfolio?"... Good stuff

 

[The Buffinator]

There's a lot more Economics in this thread than I ever thought I'd see. "Why doesn't Bucky have a portfolio, he's been alive for 106 years!". Reminds me of Cordelia saying that to Angel...something like "You've been alive a couple hundred years and couldn't develop an investment portfolio?"... Good stuff

I guess Bucky had a difficult time reaching his stockbroker while Hydra had him in that Cryo Freeze chamber.

 

[Sassafras]

There's a lot more Economics in this thread than I ever thought I'd see. "Why doesn't Bucky have a portfolio, he's been alive for 106 years!". Reminds me of Cordelia saying that to Angel...something like "You've been alive a couple hundred years and couldn't develop an investment portfolio?"... Good stuff

For me tho one of the best things about the film MCU - more or less - is the more "grounded" aspects in at least some of the films.

Like the genius of seeing Tony Stark building the first suit; how that evolves; plus there's REASONS he's able to do what he does; AND his head is messed up too.

Or, like in Avengers 1; the clips at the end showing the graffiti and people getting tats and so on. IMO it was one of the failings of IW; small stuff like - there would have been SOME folks hanging out of the windows with cell phones when the aliens showed up.

What's great about this show so far is some of that groundedness....anyway, yeah, Bucky is an interesting case. Far as I know, he would have been a POW - or may or may not been dishonorably discharged. Still, if he's been pardoned with certain conditions, in theory a lawyer would have wrangled for some kind of pension. Also Steve and/or T'challa might have made provisions for him.

Also might be that Pepper did at some point offer funds; but I can see someone like Sam would have turned anything like that down, anyway.

Excellent points about government loans / military credit unions being available to Sam - surprised Marvel missed that.

Well, maybe u have to be military/ex military/military brat for your head to think like that...also, someone pointed out to me, if u can generalize, that in the Southern U.S. established relationships mean a lot culturally; more so maybe than other parts of the country. The show does make a point about who the family banked with for years.

 

[Neal136]

I think you can chalk up the loan situation to the Blip. Sam mentions that, even with the business being a "financial mess", he'd be eligible for other loans, which might tie into him being a veteran/active military. The banker guy basically says, "Not anymore", or something to that effect. When you have billions of people returning at once, the need for aid would be beyond anything we've ever witnessed or could imagine. Cut the writers some slack while they're briefly touching on financial matters and how they relate to a totally fictitious and unprecedented global catastrophe.

 

[Sassafras]

I think you can chalk up the loan situation to the Blip. Sam mentions that, even with the business being a "financial mess", he'd be eligible for other loans, which might tie into him being a veteran/active military. The banker guy basically says, "Not anymore", or something to that effect. When you have billions of people returning at once, the need for aid would be beyond anything we've ever witnessed or could imagine. Cut the writers some slack while they're briefly touching on financial matters and how they relate to a totally fictitious and unprecedented global catastrophe.

True, true. Reminds me of all those EG opening shots of the boats in the harbor, etc. Or Covid right now. It's not all gonna go back to the way things were, as far as businesses are concerned.

 

[e30ernest]

I think you can chalk up the loan situation to the Blip. Sam mentions that, even with the business being a "financial mess", he'd be eligible for other loans, which might tie into him being a veteran/active military. The banker guy basically says, "Not anymore", or something to that effect. When you have billions of people returning at once, the need for aid would be beyond anything we've ever witnessed or could imagine. Cut the writers some slack while they're briefly touching on financial matters and how they relate to a totally fictitious and unprecedented global catastrophe.

This is my takeaway from the loan situation too. Also goes back to how Thanos' point, and also what the "Flag Smashers" are all about. With the return of all these people, there is a sudden scarcity of resources once gain (which may include money).

I do think Sam has enough to live by, but he doesn't have enough to pay for his sister's debt (which is what they were trying to address with the loan). He was trying to secure a loan with his name on it to rescue the family business.

 

[jye4ever]

Bucky story is pretty heartbreaking

Loved seeing WS again!

 

[Khev]

Boy these Marvel shows are sure making me appreciate Mando's "filler" episodes a whole lot more.

Sam and his sister sitting in a bank applying for a loan? Seriously?

lol

But yep the Bucky stuff is pretty cool. At first I thought he was hanging out with the old guy since they're technically close to the same age. But then when the real reason was revealed, damn...

 

[punisher1974]

The episode is great. Liked seeing how both Liked seeing the parallel Between Barnes and Wilson's lives. Bucky has a long road ahead to healing and it is great seeing the remorse he has and how he is trying to atone for past sins. Seeing Sam trying to save his family history and not thinking he could live to Roger's lagacy is saddening because Roger's believes in him but with future events playing out I hope he feels he earns the shield. Nice start to show and the action is very much like Winter Soldier which is awesome. Really looking forward to seeing how Walker is used because he was a nutcase in the original storyline. I have read that there is some stuff in essence but alot of changes to.

 

[jye4ever]

Boy these Marvel shows are sure making me appreciate Mando's "filler" episodes a whole lot more.

Sam and his sister sitting in a bank applying for a loan? Seriously?

lol

But yep the Bucky stuff is pretty cool. At first I thought he was hanging out with the old guy since they're technically close to the same age. But then when the real reason was revealed, damn...

Next episode Falcon goes shopping for a chin

The episode is great. Liked seeing how both Liked seeing the parallel Between Barnes and Wilson's lives. Bucky has a long road ahead to healing and it is great seeing the remorse he has and how he is trying to atone for past sins. Seeing Sam trying to save his family history and not thinking he could live to Roger's lagacy is saddening because Roger's believes in him but with future events playing out I hope he feels he earns the shield. Nice start to show and the action is very much like Winter Soldier which is awesome. Really looking forward to seeing how Walker is used because he was a nutcase in the original storyline. I have read that there is some stuff in essence but alot of changes to.

Yeah I quite liked the gravitas Falcon placed on the burden of carrying the shield and living up to standards set by Cap.

 

[punisher1974]

Really looking forward to Zemo showing back up. The Flag Smashers are interesting to. Sharon Carter.

 

[jye4ever]

I will say this I haven’t liked WS arm and costume ever since TWS!

 

[punisher1974]

Well now he wears the gloves to conceal the metal arm so they fixed it for JYE.

 

[Sassafras]

I will say this I haven?t liked WS arm and costume ever since TWS!

Wwwweeelll - since WS is my fav MCU character - miss the longer hair and more feral look - tho IMO the Wakanda look was outstanding for the setting.

But, yeah, appreciate if u are trying to blend in, you make some changes.

I'd like more assassination flashbacks, 'coz I am a sick person and also - the Winter's Soldier skill set over the years gets mentioned, but overall a few more examples wouldn't hurt - like his sniping ability. Because - Bucky Barnes was a sniper.

(Then again, I'll never be completely happy 'coz the whole Nat thing got ditched in favor of that gawd-awful BruceNat. Didn't need some big romance but some acknowledgement of a classic comic pairing would've been nice.)

But, just based on the first episode - wherever this goes - 1) Spellman can write; and I'm not having any eyerolls over *boring trite script line cliches* and 2) am actually enjoying the MCU again, which after the IMO disappointing IW and EG am pretty surprised by.

Like, rewatched EG for the first time yesterday; and still - don't think I'll watch again. There's stuff I like; but mostly it just felt like a movie "making things OK" which IMO undercuts the traumas of other films. Will never figure out why Nat's death doesn't work; but it just doesn't. Maybe 'coz to me through EG she seems so out of character.

Anyway, curious about Walker.
https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/documents/the_falcon_and_the_winter_soldier_production_brief_fina_875edcc9.pdf

JOHN WALKER is one of the highest-ranking soldiers in the U.S. military. He is patriotic, strong, good-intentioned, and every bit of him will be put to the test as he tries to team up with Sam and Bucky to protect the world from a new threat. Wyatt Russell was called on to portray the dedicated soldier. ?We thought Wyatt was an interesting choice because a lot of his work before had him playing the slacker with long hair and a beard,? says executive producer Nate Moore. ?But we found this unique energy in him that neither Sam Wilson nor Bucky Barnes has, and we felt that was important so that John Walker stood apart from these two characters.?
But, says Russell, Walker?s journey is not without complication. ?I gravitate towards characters who need to make difficult decisions,? he says. ?His dichotomies are what attracted me to him, and I?ve been allowed the leeway to shape him a little because we?ve never met this character before.?