Hot Toys Justice League Superman

[fiveainone]

To be honest...this is how A LOT of businesses are run...even the Federal Government. There's A LOT of leadership that is "out-of-touch" with their customer-base or their lower level workforce...and unfortunately, WB management is one of them. In my work, we talk about how the old-timers are still "living in the Cold War"...and that's probably how some of these studio heads are, they're living and working in a bubble and surrounded by "Yes men" and living off how they remember the "Good ol' 80's action movies" (which were awesome...but still...you get where I'm going).

Unfortunately, the DC movies and their quality is in a constant tug-of-war between the creators (producers, directors, crew, cast, etc.) and the studio...and it's probably going to be that way for a little while longer. The good thing is that they're now "done" with Snyder, they had their "overall positive" movie in Wonder Woman, and finally have their own "Kevin Feige" in Geoff Johns (assuming he's empowered as he should be and can make good MOVIE-related decisions) and Jon Berg (whose credits are "Out of Time" and "Elf" before DC...who is this guy?).

That's why when I watched the BTS of Civil War, of Kevin Feige and the creatives talking about the movie, it makes 100% sense why Marvel Studios is so successful. They're all like-minded people that are on the same page, and all express passion and thorough and logical thoughts.

Then I watched BvS BTS.. while they're all passionate still, there was a lack of thoroughness to how they talk. It's like "what if this and this is here," and it gets green lit. Rather than a deep discussion on why it should or shouldn't. It's interesting if you have the time to watch both BTS back to back.

 

[SilverStar17]

To be honest...this is how A LOT of businesses are run...even the Federal Government. There's A LOT of leadership that is "out-of-touch" with their customer-base or their lower level workforce...and unfortunately, WB management is one of them. In my work, we talk about how the old-timers are still "living in the Cold War"...and that's probably how some of these studio heads are, they're living and working in a bubble and surrounded by "Yes men" and living off how they remember the "Good ol' 80's action movies" (which were awesome...but still...you get where I'm going).

 

[Hoody999]

JL cinematographer said there is a Snyder cut and he's endorsing a fan-made petition. Snyder submitted a 3-hour cut and WB didn't like it so it was Whedonized. I sure hope that first cut was complete with VFX and music and ready for public screening.

If anyone has a link to the petition I’ll sign it !!!!

 

[Helghan]

If anyone has a link to the petition I’ll sign it !!!!

https://www.change.org/p/warner-bro...-release-e90fef07-11c6-4a9a-9ae8-375c7717dafa

There ya go:

I honestly hope we get the director's cut. Joss Whedon's lame humour ruins it. Seeing characters break...character just cheapens the movie. If only they can just write an intelligent script with organic dialogue.

The thing is with the DCEU. They already blew their load 2 movies in. BVS is my favourite comic book movie of all time, possibly top 5 for film in general. Its definitely inspired by Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, and Kingdom Come. It's not a movie for the common movie goer who wants something brainless and they'll forget about unless there's some lame catch phrase. They'll never top it.

Wonder Woman was well received by the masses, but it honestly is unremarkable. I don't know how everyone praises this movie. The third act is just such a mess. Don't get me wrong. I can enjoy it on occassion, but outside of it being Wonder Woman, would anybody have cared if it went by any other name/ IP?

I'm not confident the Geoff Johns and Jon Berg (whoever the hell he is) will deliver anything that can top BVS on a literary level...it would be unfair to expect them to, but Geoff Johns isn't ready to head the division I feel. His actions thus far paint a picture of a man so unsure of himself and loves knee jerk reactions on criticisms.

If I can just get that Director's Cut. I'll be happy, then it'll be another franchise I can happily ignore...unless they get Snyder back, because god damn...that guy knows what he's doing and he ain't going to water the comics down like everybody else does. Him or David Lynch adapting Killing Joke with an R rating.

 

[Hoody999]

Awesome ! Thanks, petition signed !! Almost 150,000 signatures just now. Anyone reading this of the same opinion please sign and spread (you get the option at the end). WB needs to get the message from a significant number of people.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[**16k**]

Awesome ! Thanks, petition signed !! Almost 150,000 signatures just now. Anyone reading this of the same opinion please sign and spread (you get the option at the end). WB needs to get the message from a significant number of people.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well, I signed the very first week it went up, but the numbers have me cautious. I read an article the many signatures were faked.

 

[JorjeCroft]

Well, I signed the very first week it went up, but the numbers have me cautious. I read an article the many signatures were faked.

you can't fake signature on change.org. why to fake 150K signatures if you can fake 1 billion then. it needs verification. I don't think someone created 150k fake social media accounts.

 

[Hoody999]

you can't fake signature on change.org. why to fake 150K signatures if you can fake 1 billion then. it needs verification. I don't think someone created 150k fake social media accounts.

True. I thought the direct links for people to share via all sorts of social media was very savvy. It can go semi viral via that route and easily get that many people signing it. Think of all the movie groups etc on Facebook. 150k is easily possible id say.

 

[**16k**]

you can't fake signature on change.org. why to fake 150K signatures if you can fake 1 billion then. it needs verification. I don't think someone created 150k fake social media accounts.

On the contrary, there's nothing easier. Take your granny's name, open a mail account anywhere and poof! Granny has just signed she wants to see Snyder's cut!

 

[Hoody999]

Yeah, but how many people are seriously going to do that for 100s or 1000's of new email accounts ??

More likely would be if one person could sign it on their Facebook, then also on Twitter etc etc. I can't imagine they go that deep on the owner data to check if a person has already signed.

Even if they did check, the data is probably different for most people between accounts anyway.

Either way, I don't really care if they succeed in getting an extended version released.

 

[JorjeCroft]

On the contrary, there's nothing easier. Take your granny's name, open a mail account anywhere and poof! Granny has just signed she wants to see Snyder's cut!

I don't think anybody has time for that. Grannies are signing from all over the world then

 

[**16k**]

I don't think anybody has time for that. Grannies are signing from all over the world then

Well, it happens! Do you know that some people even buy signature packs to advance a cause? You pay a few dollars (well maybe a little more than that) and you can buy a 1000 signature pack if you know who to contact. For some people, it's just as easy as to get a fake credit card. And trust me, the deep web isn't that hard to access...

Now, don't get me wrong, I want that cut to happen as much as you do, but if you start to read genuine press articles saying that many signatures are fake, well, the chances of seeing an already very unlikely release to happen begin to dwindle even more.

 

[JorjeCroft]

Well, it happens! Do you know that some people even buy signature packs to advance a cause? You pay a few dollars (well maybe a little more than that) and you can buy a 1000 signature pack if you know who to contact. For some people, it's just as easy as to get a fake credit card. And trust me, the deep web isn't that hard to access...

Now, don't get me wrong, I want that cut to happen as much as you do, but if you start to read genuine press articles saying that many signatures are fake, well, the chances of seeing an already very unlikely release to happen begin to dwindle even more.

petition already made a noise in all over the internet. that is what matters. no matter it will have 10 or 1000 000 signatures. I'm sure WB dumb bosses already know fans are not happy about what they did.

 

[**16k**]

petition already made a noise in all over the internet. that is what matters. no matter it will have 10 or 1000 000 signatures. I'm sure WB dumb bosses already know fans are not happy about what they did.

Well, they didn't need the petition for that! They need just look at the disaster at the box office!

 

[JorjeCroft]

Well, they didn't need the petition for that! They need just look at the disaster at the box office!

In general I'm not happy that movie failed but my another side is happy, hope they will call their brains and will give us what we are asking.

 

[**16k**]

Well, I signed, so I want to see it, but I must confess that I'm very ambivalent about the whole DCEU movies.

I think BvS and MoS are awesome superhero movies... But awful Superman movies
I think JL is great entertainment, but mediocre movie to say the least
WW, well I still have to watch that one
As for SS, that was so bad I don't think I'll ever watch it again. The only saving grace was Harley, the rest was crap from beginning to end.

 

[Hoody999]

Yep agree there. Especially with SS. What a disaster !! But do yourself a favour and go and see Wonder Woman. Go in with low expectations though. That always helps I think
I personally think it's the best they've done recently. Dare I say it due to a female director ? She seemed to add more "emotional connection" to the movie. Well and it's got Gal Gadot in it. Wow !!

 

[sj2106]

Well, I signed, so I want to see it, but I must confess that I'm very ambivalent about the whole DCEU movies.

I think BvS and MoS are awesome superhero movies... But awful Superman movies
I think JL is great entertainment, but mediocre movie to say the least
WW, well I still have to watch that one
As for SS, that was so bad I don't think I'll ever watch it again. The only saving grace was Harley, the rest was crap from beginning to end.

I'm curious what you thought of Superman in JL? A lot of fans who didn't like how he was handled in MoS and BvS were happier with the JL Supes even if they didn't love the movie as a whole.

 

[**16k**]

Yep agree there. Especially with SS. What a disaster !! But do yourself a favour and go and see Wonder Woman. Go in with low expectations though. That always helps I think
I personally think it's the best they've done recently. Dare I say it due to a female director ? She seemed to add more "emotional connection" to the movie. Well and it's got Gal Gadot in it. Wow !!

Well, I have the WW BR and still have to watch it. For that I need time and be in the right mood. I've found that watching movies at the wrong made me more critical than I should be, but when the stars are right...

I'm curious what you thought of Superman in JL? A lot of fans who didn't like how he was handled in MoS and BvS were happier with the JL Supes even if they didn't love the movie as a whole.

Well, not much to be honest. His screen time was so short that I can't make a real opinion. I hated the padded suit for sure, and the sta he was very distracting. Now, since my last DC experience was SS, I swore I wouldn't go to a theater to watch JL. Once bitten...
So I watched a rip. Dubbed in French which makes matters worse! Some dialogues were so silly that I really can't say I liked Supes there, but that may just be the dubbing.
Besides, I hate a few things in the DCEU that I think will make a lasting impression, whether or not they make a better Supes:
- killing Jimmy Olsen off was stupid (though that can be easily corrected since the guy we saw was a CIA agent, he might have travelled with the fake ID of a real photographer as a legend, and the rel Jimmy could be alive somewhere and pop up in a future movie... If that ever happens, which seems unlikely at this point.)
- no explanation for CK's return, so we may assume that Supes's alive but CK is still dead and as a new persona. Bad move. Supes is CK and no one else. And with an open casket, I really don't see how they can fix that, unless a Flashpoint scenario retcons the universe.

 

[Jaymas]

https://www.change.org/p/warner-bro...-release-e90fef07-11c6-4a9a-9ae8-375c7717dafa

There ya go:

I honestly hope we get the director's cut. Joss Whedon's lame humour ruins it. Seeing characters break...character just cheapens the movie. If only they can just write an intelligent script with organic dialogue.

The thing is with the DCEU. They already blew their load 2 movies in. BVS is my favourite comic book movie of all time, possibly top 5 for film in general. Its definitely inspired by Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, and Kingdom Come. It's not a movie for the common movie goer who wants something brainless and they'll forget about unless there's some lame catch phrase. They'll never top it.

Wonder Woman was well received by the masses, but it honestly is unremarkable. I don't know how everyone praises this movie. The third act is just such a mess. Don't get me wrong. I can enjoy it on occassion, but outside of it being Wonder Woman, would anybody have cared if it went by any other name/ IP?

I'm not confident the Geoff Johns and Jon Berg (whoever the hell he is) will deliver anything that can top BVS on a literary level...it would be unfair to expect them to, but Geoff Johns isn't ready to head the division I feel. His actions thus far paint a picture of a man so unsure of himself and loves knee jerk reactions on criticisms.

If I can just get that Director's Cut. I'll be happy, then it'll be another franchise I can happily ignore...unless they get Snyder back, because god damn...that guy knows what he's doing and he ain't going to water the comics down like everybody else does. Him or David Lynch adapting Killing Joke with an R rating.

sigh... I'll admit that I'm interested in a Snyder Director's cut too, but not because I thought Batman v Superman was anywhere close to being one of the best superhero movies of all time. Mostly I think Justice League felt incongruent with what came before it, like the other movies didn't matter. Even though I thought there were huge problems with BvS and Man of Steel, I was hoping that the few good things about them could lead to a pay off in Justice League. It didn't. The timing of the tone shift trying to lighten things up didn't make sense, and the backing away from moving toward an epic encounter with Darksied is disappointing. They probably thought the problem with BvS was "tone" when the problem was the ridiculous story hinging on ridiculous character motivations (Martha!!!! Why did you say that name????). I can not understand why anyone can brag about the merits of "BVS on a literary level". The nonsensical reason for Superman and Batman to fight only looked vaguely intelligent when you compare it to the absurd reason they stopped fighting and became besties. Zack Snynder is an amazing visual director. Looking at the images he puts to the screen is like flipping through a comic and falling in love with the best comic art ever.... just don't read the story. It's not that it didn't have some good moments, the BvS director's cut helped but hardly fixed the primary problems at the core of a really ill conceived and convoluted plot. Joss Whedon's version of Justice League however "corrected" this by giving us an over simplistic ABC story with no real gravitas or weight to it. When you try an turn what should be a climax of a series into a pivot of course the audience will be underwhelmed. So, despite my issues with Snyder, I would love to have seen what I am sure would have been and actual climax to the over all story he has told so far. Love or hate what Snyder has done in the DCEU, getting a complete and congruent series is better than getting a directionless mess where the studio isn't sure what they should do. Ultimately I think the issue with DC movies rests with Warner Brothers. Both Zack Snyder and Joss Whedon are capable directors with strengths and weaknesses and it really is up to the studios to know what they want, understand what they are getting with the director they chose, and know how and when it is appropriate to step in when they need to and how and when to get out of the way when they need to. Warner Brothers has no clue what they are doing, and they are just reacting to what they think the audience wants rather than have a real vision for how they want the DC movies to play out.

As for Wonder Woman, I will agree that the last "boss fight" was a bit weak, but the story itself, the character's journey was fantastic. Anyone who has read Joseph Campbell will see all the classic markers of a "heroes journey" in literature and mythology. Wonder Woman is one of my all time favorite Superhero movies because it hits all the beats in the same way the classic Christopher Reeve Superman film did back in the day. Wonder Woman told a great story because it understood that "heroes" in literature, like those of Greek myths (how appropriate for Wonder Woman in particular) parallel the story of our universal human condition and experience. I think that's why the movie was so well received.

As for the idea that movies without an R rating are "watering down" the stories and characters of comics I will never understand this false equivalency with violence and something being "good" or "deep" or "literary". I'm fine with a rated R superhero movie when the story justifies it. But just making something "rated R" doesn't automatically mean its good either. Logan was fantastic and it was violent, but had a great story and provided commentary on the problem with violence (through wonderfully borrowed themes from the movie Shane). Yes, Wolverine fanboys have been screaming for more blood in Wolverine movies for a long time, and I am sure just the visuals even without the good story would please many of these immature fans if that's what we got, but we actually got a great story too which justified the violence by telling a meaningful story about having to live in a tragic violent world.