Blade Runner 2049 (October 6th, 2017) *SPOILERS*

[crows]

These beings as in "replicants" evolve. Joi wasn't a replicant, she was just holographic program. How could someone be "wrong" about a film. Lmao.

Sowhat if you put joi's program in a replicant body
Then what?
What do you think is inside k's brain? What program is inside him?
Why do you assume his programming is any different than hers?

I seriously seriously doubt it was in her programming to hire a girl on the street to pleasure her man.
Does k even get sexual pleasure? They must do. So she did this action completely on her own being selfless and only thinking about him.

Thats the problem with ur argument. That scene was added to show joi acting on her OWN and thinking outside of herself.


That kind of selfless act.... thats not robotic. She cared so much for him she wanted him to be happy.... thats more human than human..

Also the happiness she got from her present and being able to accompany him in outside of the apartment,

Thats not in her programming. Joy felt real happiness. She wanted to accompany him for real. Not forced by a program.
There are a bunch of moments of joi feeling real emotions outside of her programming.

Denying this is to be blind to the movie. You are blind brother

 

[Khev]

A commonality I've noticed is that many of us want Joi to be attaining true sentience and real emotions. We're invested in that. We're even ascribing our own wants to K, who himself isn't a real person. We're assuming he wants what we want ergo we're already elevating him to being human even without realising it.

Oh yes I'm absolutely projecting my own preferences for the characters into my interpretation of the film's events, but only because I see enough evidence to allow it. Obviously I'd like Joi to not be dead too but alas the film doesn't give such an option.

 

[crows]

Oh yes I'm absolutely projecting my own preferences for the characters into my interpretation of the film's events, but only because I see enough evidence to allow it. Obviously I'd like Joi to not be dead too but alas the film doesn't give such an option.

when the movie started I just thought she was a quirky AI program. I even thought she might bring some comedy relief. I thought nothing of her.
as the movie progressed I realized there were enough clues to let the audience know that she was evolving right alongside K. it is not that I Hope she had a soul.

it is just that there are enough scene to prove that she was acting out of program. there is enough clues to make us think she was evolving as a being. developing real emotions.

And like i said, so she was Holographic, but all you need is insert her into a body and she would be just like K...

 

[xipotec]

when the movie started I just thought she was a quirky AI program. I even thought she might bring some comedy relief. I thought nothing of her.
as the movie progressed I realized there were enough clues to let the audience know that she was evolving right alongside K. it is not that I Hope she had a soul.

it is just that there are enough scene to prove that she was acting out of program. there is enough clues to make us think she was evolving as a being. developing real emotions.

And like i said, so she was Holographic, but all you need is insert her into a body and she would be just like K...

This was the discussion my wife and I had. She said the same. What’s the difference between K and Joi? A Body?

We finally see a replicant being born.....

So they body is created and the mind filled with program.....

Seems very analogous to Joi, and the Hooker scene is suppose to show that. Joi “borrows” a body to fulfill her desire to physically please K.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Khev]

when the movie started I just thought she was a quirky AI program. I even thought she might bring some comedy relief. I thought nothing of her.

Yep, I initially thought that she'd just be a throw away gimmick character like Michael Rapaport's holographic girlfriend in The 6th Day. Then on the rooftop I even started thinking that they were spending too much time with her. But wow, what a surprise to have her end up being such an integral aspect of *everything.* Such a brilliant surprise.

as the movie progressed I realized there were enough clues to let the audience know that she was evolving right alongside K. it is not that I Hope she had a soul.

it is just that there are enough scene to prove that she was acting out of program. there is enough clues to make us think she was evolving as a being. developing real emotions.

And like i said, so she was Holographic, but all you need is insert her into a body and she would be just like K...

Agreed, there are so many scenes that indicate her heightened state of being. Like her final exchange with the prostitute. The prostitute detected the slightest hint of both jealousy and contempt from Joi and responded in kind. Why would the prostitute even waste her breath talking down to a holographic toaster that had no feelings of her own? But she knew full well that her words would be hurtful to Joi which is exactly why she said them.

If Joi was nothing but an unthinking and unfeeling program that existed to only make K see and hear what he wanted then why would she need to give off a vibe of "your work is done now get your ass away from my man" when he *wasn't* looking? It just further cemented for me that she had become much more than what she was originally intended to be.

 

[Bravomite]

when the movie started I just thought she was a quirky AI program. I even thought she might bring some comedy relief. I thought nothing of her.
as the movie progressed I realized there were enough clues to let the audience know that she was evolving right alongside K. it is not that I Hope she had a soul.

it is just that there are enough scene to prove that she was acting out of program. there is enough clues to make us think she was evolving as a being. developing real emotions.

And like i said, so she was Holographic, but all you need is insert her into a body and she would be just like K...

great post.

There were two moments where she portrayed very human emotions to me. The first when she told the prostitute to leave K's apartment. I don't think I'm reading into it but I thought that Joi showed a flash of jealousy towards the replicant in that scene. The second when she realised that Luv was going to retire her and she crouched down to K to tell him that she loved him one last time. It was literally her last moment and she used it in about the most human way.

 

[snoop101]

Sowhat if you put joi's program in a replicant body
Then what?
What do you think is inside k's brain? What program is inside him?
Why do you assume his programming is any different than hers?

I seriously seriously doubt it was in her programming to hire a girl on the street to pleasure her man.
Does k even get sexual pleasure? They must do. So she did this action completely on her own being selfless and only thinking about him.

Thats the problem with ur argument. That scene was added to show joi acting on her OWN and thinking outside of herself.


That kind of selfless act.... thats not robotic. She cared so much for him she wanted him to be happy.... thats more human than human..

Also the happiness she got from her present and being able to accompany him in outside of the apartment,

Thats not in her programming. Joy felt real happiness. She wanted to accompany him for real. Not forced by a program.
There are a bunch of moments of joi feeling real emotions outside of her programming.

Denying this is to be blind to the movie. You are blind brother

"That's not in her programming." Lmfao well thanks for letting us know. That's YOUR interpretation. There are even more moments that point to the contrary. I see it as Joi just following her programming. She's everything he wants to see/hear, that's literally what she's designed for. It's too big of a coincidence for the hologram of Joi on the bridge to also call him JOE, which is the special name she chose for him after completely giving into K's fantasy of being a "real" boy. She brought that prostitue into the room because she said that she could tell K liked her, that's exactly what K wanted. Denying this is to be blind of the movie. You're blind sister.

 

[Khev]

great post.

There were two moments where she portrayed very human emotions to me. The first when she told the prostitute to leave K's apartment. I don't think I'm reading into it but I thought that Joi showed a flash of jealousy towards the replicant in that scene. The second when she realised that Luv was going to retire her and she crouched down to K to tell him that she loved him one last time. It was literally her last moment and she used it in about the most human way.

Great minds.

I also couldn't help but notice that Joi's emanator jingle went off both times K met new women for the first time as if to announce to both the prostitute and Luv to "back off ladies, he's spoken for." Further evidence of possible jealousy on her part.

 

[ZaCHw117]

"That's not in her programming." Lmfao well thanks for letting us know. That's YOUR interpretation. There are even more moments that point to the contrary. I see it as Joi just following her programming. She's everything he wants to see/hear, that's literally what she's designed for. It's too big of a coincidence for the hologram of Joi on the bridge to also call him JOE, which is the special name she chose for him after completely giving into K's fantasy of being a "real" boy. She brought that prostitue into the room because she said that she could tell K liked her, that's exactly what K wanted. Denying this is to be blind of the movie. You're blind sister.

 

[**16k**]

Sowhat if you put joi's program in a replicant body
Then what?
What do you think is inside k's brain? What program is inside him?
Why do you assume his programming is any different than hers?

I seriously seriously doubt it was in her programming to hire a girl on the street to pleasure her man.
Does k even get sexual pleasure? They must do. So she did this action completely on her own being selfless and only thinking about him.

Thats the problem with ur argument. That scene was added to show joi acting on her OWN and thinking outside of herself.


That kind of selfless act.... thats not robotic. She cared so much for him she wanted him to be happy.... thats more human than human..

Also the happiness she got from her present and being able to accompany him in outside of the apartment,

Thats not in her programming. Joy felt real happiness. She wanted to accompany him for real. Not forced by a program.
There are a bunch of moments of joi feeling real emotions outside of her programming.

Denying this is to be blind to the movie. You are blind brother

Once again, I agree completely.

Somehow, Joi is the most interesting and pathetic character in the movie. Just like K, her brain is an AI, and just like him, she's becoming human. Yet, deep inside she knows she'll never be human because she's just an image. An image with a soul. So I think that's why she wants K to become human so much. It's her way of showing her love to him by fulfilling his and her greatest desire. She wants him to experience what she'll never get to feel herself. That is selfless love. That's not a programmed response.

But that's the beauty of a movie like this, every interpretation is valid!

Moreover, She almost cries when she feels the rain on her skin, I don't think this would be the result a default programming.

 

[greygoose]

To me it felt like Joi became more 'human' throughout the movie. The grey area being as to whether this was an instinctive evolution or if it's simply part of her programming to adapt and grow with their owner....

 

[snoop101]

But that’s the thing, she is programmed to say what K wants to hear. Did she truly develop feelings for K and want to go with him or is that just what K wanted to hear?

We’ll never truly know. That's part of the fun I suppose.

 

[crows]

Yep, I initially thought that she'd just be a throw away gimmick character like Michael Rapaport's holographic girlfriend in The 6th Day. Then on the rooftop I even started thinking that they were spending too much time with her. But wow, what a surprise to have her end up being such an integral aspect of *everything.* Such a brilliant surprise.



Agreed, there are so many scenes that indicate her heightened state of being. Like her final exchange with the prostitute. The prostitute detected the slightest hint of both jealousy and contempt from Joi and responded in kind. Why would the prostitute even waste her breath talking down to a holographic toaster that had no feelings of her own? But she knew full well that her words would be hurtful to Joi which is exactly why she said them.

If Joi was nothing but an unthinking and unfeeling program that existed to only make K see and hear what he wanted then why would she need to give off a vibe of "your work is done not get your ass away from my man" when he *wasn't* looking? It just further cemented for me that she had become much more than what she was originally intended to be.

great post.

There were two moments where she portrayed very human emotions to me. The first when she told the prostitute to leave K's apartment. I don't think I'm reading into it but I thought that Joi showed a flash of jealousy towards the replicant in that scene. The second when she realised that Luv was going to retire her and she crouched down to K to tell him that she loved him one last time. It was literally her last moment and she used it in about the most human way.

yeah the scene between Only Joi and the hooker girl is the most telling and the biggest proof. That alone is proof that Joi was evolving or getting a soul.
there is No reason at all for these two artificial beings to have such an awkard and hostile conversation with each other.

There is NO reason for Joi to be "rude" to her. K's needs were fulfilled, he got pleasure and physical company, everything was technically good that morning after.
the fact that Joi feels jealousy and resentment is undeniable proof that she was not just a program following orders.

theres just no way. I doubt the writer and director would add all these little scenes in a movie about robots giving Birth and becoming human and wanting freedom.......
The WHOLE story is about "Pinocchio becoming a real boy" thats the whole point of the movie. And Snoop is going to dare to say that Joi was just a computer program? I dont think snoop even understood what the point of the movie was about

 

[greygoose]

yeah the scene between Only Joi and the hooker girl is the most telling and the biggest proof. That alone is proof that Joi was evolving or getting a soul.
there is No reason at all for these two artificial beings to have such an awkard and hostile conversation with each other.

There is NO reason for Joi to be "rude" to her. K's needs were fulfilled, he got pleasure and physical company, everything was technically good that morning after.
the fact that Joi feels jealousy and resentment is undeniable proof that she was not just a program following orders.

theres just no way. I doubt the writer and director would add all these little scenes in a movie about robots giving Birth and becoming human and wanting freedom.......
The WHOLE story is about "Pinocchio becoming a real boy" thats the whole point of the movie. And Snoop is going to dare to say that Joi was just a computer program? I dont think snoop even understood what the point of the movie was about

Who do you feel more sad for, K or Joi?

 

[vortex1310]

Ooo I wish I had caught this discussion earlier.

I kept thinking in circles about the eminator. Does she really want to go with him? Or is it a subtle way of pushing product? She tells him she wants to go with him but he had to purchase it, right? Thus investing further in the company that made her.

Moreover, She almost cries when she feels the rain on her skin, I don't think this would be the result a default programming.

I think the rain scene could be interpreted to show how advanced the programming is. Almost everyone in a relationship can agree that it gives them pleasure to see their partner happy. Knowing that being in the rain is a "new experience" she reacts the way all romantic ladies do in the rain in movies for K.

There is NO reason for Joi to be "rude" to her. K's needs were fulfilled, he got pleasure and physical company, everything was technically good that morning after.
the fact that Joi feels jealousy and resentment is undeniable proof that she was not just a program following orders.

I think this could also be programming. Most partners feel appreciated when a partner can become jealous so it makes sense Joi would have this built in. An extension of that "emotion" is how Joi kicks the hooker out as a way to make sure that K is only paying attention to her (brand loyalty). Her being rude to the hooker would enforce the idea that she does not want her coming around again and to not try to.

 

[ZaCHw117]

I think this could also be programming. Most partners feel appreciated when a partner can become jealous so it makes sense Joi would have this built in. An extension of that "emotion" is how Joi kicks the hooker out as a way to make sure that K is only paying attention to her (brand loyalty). Her being rude to the hooker would enforce the idea that she does not want her coming around again and to not try to.

Seeing how Wallace owns Joi and the replicants, I don't think that would be much of a problem.

 

[snoop101]

yeah the scene between Only Joi and the hooker girl is the most telling and the biggest proof. That alone is proof that Joi was evolving or getting a soul.
there is No reason at all for these two artificial beings to have such an awkard and hostile conversation with each other.

There is NO reason for Joi to be "rude" to her. K's needs were fulfilled, he got pleasure and physical company, everything was technically good that morning after.
the fact that Joi feels jealousy and resentment is undeniable proof that she was not just a program following orders.

theres just no way. I doubt the writer and director would add all these little scenes in a movie about robots giving Birth and becoming human and wanting freedom.......
The WHOLE story is about "Pinocchio becoming a real boy" thats the whole point of the movie. And Snoop is going to dare to say that Joi was just a computer program? I dont think snoop even understood what the point of the movie was about

I completely understood the whole point of he movie. I think the one that's misunderstanding the point here is you. There's a reason the film never tells you whether or not Joi does or doesn't have a soul, it's meant to be ambiguous. Same with Deckard, I'm sure some could argue for days whether he is or isn't a replicant. Joi is beside the point anyway, the point of the movie is to show K's "evolution" from start to finish. Whether or not you think Joi had a soul has nothing to do with that aspect of the film. The reason I said Denis may have intended her not to have one is because there's so much evidence that supports that theory, just as there is evidence that supports that maybe her love for K is real. To claim I'm "wrong" about how I interpreted a film that has plot points that are INTENTIONALLY ambiguous is completely moronic.

 

[Khev]

Yes both viewpoints are equally valid. Let's not let discussion of this great film devolve into the likes of some of those "other" movie threads...

 

[snoop101]

Ooo I wish I had caught this discussion earlier.

I kept thinking in circles about the eminator. Does she really want to go with him? Or is it a subtle way of pushing product? She tells him she wants to go with him but he had to purchase it, right? Thus investing further in the company that made her.



I think the rain scene could be interpreted to show how advanced the programming is. Almost everyone in a relationship can agree that it gives them pleasure to see their partner happy. Knowing that being in the rain is a "new experience" she reacts the way all romantic ladies do in the rain in movies for K.



I think this could also be programming. Most partners feel appreciated when a partner can become jealous so it makes sense Joi would have this built in. An extension of that "emotion" is how Joi kicks the hooker out as a way to make sure that K is only paying attention to her (brand loyalty). Her being rude to the hooker would enforce the idea that she does not want her coming around again and to not try to.

All excellent points.

 

[vortex1310]

Was it ever established where K got Joi? I've been wondering if it's something he sought out or does the police department essentially issue them to replicants to keep them stable.

Edit to add:

Seeing how Wallace owns Joi and the replicants, I don't think that would be much of a problem.

Very true, but Wallace is not making money on the replicant hooker, is he? Is this a pre-established regulated business? I don't think so because she is part of the replicant resistance. Regardless we don't see products "crossed" typically when owned by one conglomerate. It's the illusion that there are product choices by not advertising that they're all owned by the same entity. I don't think they'd build in a program that would allow Joi to accept any and all replicants in connection with her owner.