Avengers: Age of Ultron (May 1st, 2015)

[DiFabio]

Yeah, I don't get what's wrong with Empire's serialized ending. That's what inspired Star Wars, serials.

I can't really say that Empire's ending bothers me, how could it? It gives you, the audience, three years to think of where the story will go next. Will Han be saved? Is Luke really Vader's son? Is Vader lying? Is Vader even human? Is Luke going to get it on with Leia (before we found out about that sister crap).

The film has a beginning (Hoth introduction and the Empire), a middle (trapping Han and the gang, Luke's training, Luke facing Vader) and an end (revelations, Lando's redemption, etc.) I think that was a stupid "criticism" to make. The ending is just as definitive as having lame Rebel celebrations in the first and last films. Atleast Empire ends on a somber, yet hopeful, note and takes it down a few notches without the big, bombastic music. I thought Whendon has gone on record saying that Avengers 2 would "feel" like Empire and he planned on taking the characters through the dirt and putting them through the ringer? Now a dismissive comment about it? If anything, ALL the Marvel films end like a serial more than any Star Wars film, ESPECIALLY Avengers ending (or endings rather). The whole universe is built on the premise of "the next one".

What a dumb thing to say.

 

[Khev]

What a dumb thing to say.

Yeah. I'll still be there for A2 sometime in the opening week I'm sure (if not opening day) but it's too bad that he's choosing to align himself with the likes of Spike Lee and Cameron when it comes to his ego and mouth.

You never hear Spielberg, Jackson, Snyder, or even Lucas throwing other filmmakers under the bus so to speak. What makes it even worse is that Whedon is idiotically criticizing arguably the greatest sequels ever made. What a dope.

The last time I remember him openly criticizing another picture was regarding Alien 3 when he was writing the awful, awful script for Alien Ressurecton (and yes I've read his unbutchered version, it sucked just as bad as what we got.) Not a good sign.

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

He obvioulsy loved it since he tried to reference it as much as possible.



I'm sure he would have thought ESB was awesome if it ended with Vader kneeling before the Emperor and saying "My master I tried. But to lure Luke to the Dark Side is to court death" Then Palpatine could have turned to the camera and smiled. Because that doesn't scream "stay tuned until next week" or three years from now or anything.

LOL.

Yeah, don't see how that supported his criticism of ESB. Hell, we already know Thanos will almost certainly be teased somewhere along the way for part 3 in the Ultron film.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

I wonder what he thinks about Episode 1 .

He better be careful with the rhetoric, or he'll be getting paid in Republic credits for his next film.

 

[Frank]

I'm sure he would have thought ESB was awesome if it ended with Vader kneeling before the Emperor and saying "My master I tried. But to lure Luke to the Dark Side is to court death" Then Palpatine could have turned to the camera and smiled. Because that doesn't scream "stay tuned until next week" or three years from now or anything.

Now that I think about, we still don't know who picked up the tab at Shawarma! To Be Continued...



Gotta love the hubris of critiquing the most beloved film of the most beloved trilogy of all time.

 

[Khev]

I also see in that same EW article that Whedon states how he thought that Jimi Hendrix sucked at playing the national anthem and that he never really considered Michael Jordan to be that good of a dribbler.

 

[Frank]

Joss "The Boss" Whedon!

What the **** are you lookin' at?

 

[Mad Old Lu]

While I don't agree that the ending for ESB is "terrible", no one can deny that the movie purposely ended as a cliffhanger, with the full intent of the adventure having a true resolution in the next installment. Lucas specifically made it that way.

And I do agree that it's that kind of unresolved ending that made it unique, especially for the time. Also, that kind of cliffhanger ending is also different than an "open ended" ending like Inception or Fight Club.

And I agree with what Joss said about Alien Resurrection:

“Uh…you know, it wasn’t a question of doing everything differently, although they changed the ending, it was mostly a matter of doing everything wrong. They said the lines…mostly…but they said them all wrong. And they cast it wrong. And they designed it wrong. And they scored it wrong. They did everything wrong that they could possibly do. There’s actually a fascinating lesson in filmmaking, because everything that they did reflects back to the script or looks like something from the script, and people assume that, if I hated it, then they’d changed the script…but it wasn’t so much that they’d changed the script; it’s that they just executed it in such a ghastly fashion as to render it almost unwatchable. (Pauses) Good times. (Pauses again) Well, I really must go…”

I admit, when I first read that quote, I thought it was arrogant and insulting. But that was before I had ever seen anything by him, like Buffy or Firefly. But once I did see those shows, I completely understood what he meant and I agree.

 

[thenammagazine]

He says he was appalled by ESB, thought and still thinks the ending is "terrible" and that the whole movie was a betrayal of trust.

1. That's all nonsense, obviously
2. He is in no position to be dishing out "contructive criticism" to a magazine about any other specific filmmaker's work. It doesn't matter if he was stating things calmly or not, its tacky pure and simple.

For the record, ESB did "have an ending." The whole movie was about Vader's pursuit of Luke and trying to win him to the Dark Side. Vader caught Luke. Luke said no (actually "nooooooo".) Luke got away. Vader was pissed. The end.

So the war is still going on. I guess "Braveheart" didn't have an ending either then. So somebody got captured. I guess "The Warriors" didn't have an ending either (since the one main guy got caught by the cops and we didn't see him get "rescued.") Stupid comments all around.

Looks like someone needs his comfy slippers and a box of bon bons. Sorry Khev, but his point about ESB is valid, whether we want to agree with it or not. You're dramaqueening it into something else entirely because ESB is your boo.

 

[Khev]

I admit, when I first read that quote, I thought it was arrogant and insulting. But that was before I had ever seen anything by him, like Buffy or Firefly. But once I did see those shows, I completely understood what he meant and I agree.

He can cry about how A:Res turned out but when I read his unaltered script I pictured everything as cool as possible and imagined the lines all being delivered in the most convincing and appropriate ways. The story still sucked.

He clearly just doesn't "get" certain movies which makes me wonder if Avengers is going to be a one and done anomaly in his career with regard to quality. I hope not. I remember him complaining that Alien 3 failed in two crucial ways: It wasn't exciting and it wasn't scary. He said with the ALIEN franchise you need to be one or the other. Wrong. You can also be incredibly, fiercely depressing and beautiful, which is what Fincher delivered in A3. Its crime (and it's a pretty big one) is that A3 *did* betray the story set up in ALIENS. Bad, bad move. Alien 3 completely by itself is actually a pretty good movie, and lightyears better than Whedon's script for A:Res.

 

[CelticPredator]

It's not that he doesn't get it. He doesn't like it. Nerd rage is so retarded.

He doesn't like cliffhangers for movies. Big mother ****ing deal. He doesn't like movies not wrapping themselves up. He didn't say he hates Empire. So. Cool your jets you ****ing nerds.

Also, he said the ENDING is appalling. The ENDING. Not the film. Not the series. The Ending.

 

[Biojex]

Ragers gonna rage...

 

[CelticPredator]

Nerders gonna herd.

 

[Khev]

It's not that he doesn't get it. He doesn't like it. Nerd rage is so retarded.

He doesn't like cliffhangers for movies. Big mother ****ing deal. He doesn't like movies not wrapping themselves up. He didn't say he hates Empire. So. Cool your jets you ****ing nerds.

Also, he said the ENDING is appalling. The ENDING. Not the film. Not the series. The Ending.

Calm down dude.

 

[thenammagazine]

Nerders gonna ergmaherd.

Fixed.

 

[Mister Ski]

Calm down dude.

Good advice that everyone, including you should take.

 

[CelticPredator]

Fixed.

Oooh. I like that.

 

[Ultron-7]

Spader is great, excellent news.

Yep i'm happy about this, really didn't want a Jarvis voiced Ultron. Now i just want to see some design concepts

 

[Biojex]

Fixed.

 

[Spartan Rex]

I like and respect Joss but he's plain wrong about ESB.
It worked perfectly as a serial installment which is what it was, not a stand alone movie.
It had an unconventional ending but it was an ending, just not one he obviously liked.

Why is he even pontificating on ESB at this late date because he's doing his own sequel?
Joss, you could do alot worse than mirroring Empires forumula for success.