The Flash - July 2022

[ironwez20]

A drop that Spider-Man Homecoming beat.
Doomed the rest of the brand to give them 3.3 billion in the next 4 movies.
If you thought a movie featuring a new Batman would ever beat the 13th MCU movie, a team-up featuring 12 heroes in 2016, that makes you the deluded one.

Spider-Man still became successful and still out grossed all Snyder made films . Don’t give me that excuse. Batman and Superman should have easily stomped civil war . The brand was doomed then. The hype surrounding bvs was immense but the movie sucked causing a large crash and the execs to panic and hire whedon and change SS from a dark movie into a Gotg looking film.

 

[T8OO]

You brought up the drop. It's either important or it's not.
I'd love to know the Batman/Superman movie box office formula. If you could share it that would be great! Maybe send WB a copy too.

Whedon wasn't hired until a year later after the execs had seen the Snyder Cut.

 

[ironwez20]

You brought up the drop. It's either important or it's not.
I'd love to know the Batman/Superman movie box office formula. If you could share it that would be great! Maybe send WB a copy too.

Whedon wasn't hired until a year later after the execs had seen the Snyder Cut.

Im saying is even though there was a drop the movies still are well received still went on to make billions and were crowd pleasers vs bvs which is pretty much hated by everyone but the cult. It’s not rocket science Also maybe you must be as daft as WB if you don’t think Batman and Superman movie should have done gang busters over cap and iron man. They are pretty much the most iconic heroes ever. The box office formula was there but the movie sucked and was a boated mess. And whedon was hired because bvs underperformed and whedon made the avenger’s popular with the his movie and WB wanted that marvel money cause snyders movies sucked. We can do this all day. Can’t change history. If it wasn’t for the horrible Snyder films we wouldn’t see so many bombs

 

[T8OO]

Im saying is even though there was a drop the movies still are well received still went on to make billions and were crowd pleasers vs bvs which is pretty much hated by everyone but the cult. It’s not rocket science Also maybe you must be as daft as WB if you don’t think Batman and Superman movie should have done gang busters over cap and iron man. They are pretty much the most iconic heroes ever. The box office formula was there but the movie sucked and was a boated mess. And whedon was hired because bvs underperformed and whedon made the avenger’s popular with the his movie and WB wanted that marvel money cause snyders movies sucked. We can do this all day. Can’t change history. If it wasn’t for the horrible Snyder films we wouldn’t see so many bombs

Spider-Man Homecoming made 880m, pretty close to BvS's 873.5m.
Why did Iron Man 3 make more than The Dark Knight Rises if Batman was all that and Iron Man wasn't?
Something being iconic doesn't mean it will earn a lot of money.

Again, what is the formula for Batman and Superman movies and making money? How much is Batman worth, Superman?

 

[Khev]

So what was the overall opinion on The Flash from everyone here? Whenever I'd bounce into this thread prior to seeing it the vibe that I got was that people were unimpressed and thought the CGI was horrendous and that overall it was just another lame DCEU entry.

After watching Black Adam at home a few months back I wasn't in a charitable mood for DC and since my son wasn't interested in seeing Flash on the big screen I stayed home as well.

But after seeing it this week I now wish that I had gone. Sure it was deeply derivative of recent films with all the talk of timelines/alternate universes, the Kara "Weapon X" style rescue, more talk of Back to the Future and Kevin Bacon (is it in his contract to be mentioned in *every* superhero movie??) but for me most of the derivative stuff was as good or better than the films it borrowed from. Keaton's send-off was WAY better than Bruce in TDKR for instance, and the Kara rescue was a hundred times cooler than derpy Wolverine running off into the snow, lol. I thought that Keaton looked and acted much better than the majority of recent "legacy old characters" that have been returning to the big screen (Maverick is still the best but I'm inclined to give Flash's Batman the number two spot and that includes the returning Spider-Men.)

Yeah the babies looked inexplicably horrendous but at least most of their sequences were in slo-mo "Speed Force" land so I can sort of write them off as being Barry's distorted vision when he's in that mode (though the "real time" cartoon baby in the microwave gets no such pass, yuck.) But they were just a quick throw-away gag at the beginning of the film and ultimately unimportant. I thought the majority of the other visual effects were pretty solid save for a dodgy frame here and there.

I'm just very curious because even after a second viewing I thought it was just a solid all around film with a good story, likable characters to root for, cool action, cinematography and music, it even has my finger hovering over the "preorder" button for HT Batman, Flash, and Kara which I haven't done in a while.

 

[ironwez20]

Spider-Man Homecoming made 880m, pretty close to BvS's 873.5m.
Why did Iron Man 3 make more than The Dark Knight Rises if Batman was all that and Iron Man wasn't?
Something being iconic doesn't mean it will earn a lot of money.

Again, what is the formula for Batman and Superman movies and making money? How much is Batman worth, Superman?

My guy whst aren’t you getting? Homecoming still became a successful franchise and was well received. Bvs was expected to hit a billion. Iron man 3 was the middle of the mcu and tdkr was the end of the Nolan era. Also that movie wasn’t that well received compared to its counterpart. A Batman and Superman crossover movie was anticipated for a long time. People wanted that for years. Like come on man what are you even saying right now . Do you even know the characters you are fanboying about? A Batman Superman crossover movie is what people wanted for years and should have made a billion. It was a vs movie but ended up being a bloated mess of a film causing many people to lose faith in the brand

 

[T8OO]

My guy whst aren’t you getting? Homecoming still became a successful franchise and was well received. Bvs was expected to hit a billion. Iron man 3 was the middle of the mcu and tdkr was the end of the Nolan era. Also that movie wasn’t that well received compared to its counterpart. A Batman and Superman crossover movie was anticipated for a long time. People wanted that for years. Like come on man what are you even saying right now . Do you even know the characters you are fanboying about? A Batman Superman crossover movie is what people wanted for years and should have made a billion. It was a vs movie but ended up being a bloated mess of a film causing many people to lose faith in the brand

I'm getting it fine, I'm asking you to back up your statements which don't seem to be able to do without contradicting yourself.

You mean it became a successful franchise when they didn't change course after a 73% 2nd week drop and only making 880m? But what about not getting a billion? The MCU getting it's own Spider-Man was a big thing at the time in the biggest franchise of all time.

So is the MCU being in the middle of its stride something or not? It doesn't count for BvS/Civil War but does IM3/TDKR?

What does the end of Nolan era mean, it's not worth as much? But it's the iconic Batman!! A sequel to The Dark Knight!

No formula yet?

 

[jye4ever]

Holy crap did everyone read Gunn’s comments from 14 years ago on Burton, Keaton and Nolan!

WOW!

Let me break it down:

Burton sucks
89 sucks
Keaton sucks
BB is not good

lulz

 

[Khev]

Holy crap did everyone read Gunn’s comments from 15 years ago on Burton, Keaton and Nolan!

WOW!

Let me break it down:

Burton’s Batman sucks
89 sucks
Keaton sucks
BB is not good

lulz

WB read those comments and were all "check, check, check, check--you're hired!"

 

[a-dev]

Holy crap did everyone read Gunn’s comments from 14 years ago on Burton, Keaton and Nolan!

WOW!

Let me break it down:

Burton sucks
89 sucks
Keaton sucks
BB is not good

lulz

I could take his paedophile jokes but here he crossed the line!

 

[Wor-Gar]

Burton sucks
89 sucks
Keaton sucks
BB is not good

lulz

I don't know, he has a point with all except Keaton sucking. Keaton did a surprisingly good job. But BB is over-rated, and we've all talked about Burton being a poor filmmaker from a narrative POV. 89 is visually interesting but a drag to sit thru.

 

[ironwez20]

I'm getting it fine, I'm asking you to back up your statements which don't seem to be able to do without contradicting yourself.

You mean it became a successful franchise when they didn't change course after a 73% 2nd week drop and only making 880m? But what about not getting a billion? The MCU getting it's own Spider-Man was a big thing at the time in the biggest franchise of all time.

So is the MCU being in the middle of its stride something or not? It doesn't count for BvS/Civil War but does IM3/TDKR?

What does the end of Nolan era mean, it's not worth as much? But it's the iconic Batman!! A sequel to The Dark Knight!

No formula yet?

I don’t think you understand and want to pick and choose what you want to hear which is what the cult does. So let me explain it to you in a way you understand

Ahem

Mcu c list heroes . Was still getting its stride. Cap and iron man … not big as Superman .. ok? At that time

Spider-Man homecoming…. 3rd Spider-Man reboot. Asm was not well received. Homecoming was the first movie in a new reboot and people were already tired of rebooting Spider-Man at that point.

Batman meeting Superman . Hasn’t been done before.
Kick starting a mcu like dc universe. Immense hype since Superman and Batman were popular films and characters. In the making for years before the mcu was even a thing

Two icons finally meeting on the big screen for the FIRST time. Should have been an immense hit and easily crossed a billion. But… movie sucked causing divide among fans. Guess what? The franchise is now on fire.

Now course correcting begins.
Meanwhile people are embrace the new Spider-Man and despite people not liking everything it still made a billion in his next films thanks to his increased popularity in other films.

Again it’s not hard to understand why it failed. It’s not hard to see why Spider-Man succeeded and bvs failed. You are comparing a movie that was trying to kick start a universe while putting two iconic characters on screen for the first time to a third reboot on a franchise that was on uneven ground cause of asm2.

I don’t know why Snyder Stans can’t see that. You can see it as a gem to cinema but for the rest of the world it sucked

 

[ironwez20]

Holy crap did everyone read Gunn’s comments from 14 years ago on Burton, Keaton and Nolan!

WOW!

Let me break it down:

Burton sucks
89 sucks
Keaton sucks
BB is not good

lulz

Oh no does this mean Gunn will do a 60s Batman type movie? Erasing all dark aspects of the character.

Nvm t800! Gunn has to go ! Screw that guy. Bring Snyder back! I akways knew he was the blueprint! Love his work!

 

[punisher1974]

So what was the overall opinion on The Flash from everyone here? Whenever I'd bounce into this thread prior to seeing it the vibe that I got was that people were unimpressed and thought the CGI was horrendous and that overall it was just another lame DCEU entry.

After watching Black Adam at home a few months back I wasn't in a charitable mood for DC and since my son wasn't interested in seeing Flash on the big screen I stayed home as well.

But after seeing it this week I now wish that I had gone. Sure it was deeply derivative of recent films with all the talk of timelines/alternate universes, the Kara "Weapon X" style rescue, more talk of Back to the Future and Kevin Bacon (is it in his contract to be mentioned in *every* superhero movie??) but for me most of the derivative stuff was as good or better than the films it borrowed from. Keaton's send-off was WAY better than Bruce in TDKR for instance, and the Kara rescue was a hundred times cooler than derpy Wolverine running off into the snow, lol. I thought that Keaton looked and acted much better than the majority of recent "legacy old characters" that have been returning to the big screen (Maverick is still the best but I'm inclined to give Flash's Batman the number two spot and that includes the returning Spider-Men.)

Yeah the babies looked inexplicably horrendous but at least most of their sequences were in slo-mo "Speed Force" land so I can sort of write them off as being Barry's distorted vision when he's in that mode (thought the "real time" cartoon baby in the microwave gets no such pass, yuck.) But they were just a quick throw-away gag at the beginning of the film and ultimately unimportant. I thought the majority of the other visual effects were pretty solid save for a dodgy frame here and there.

I'm just very curious because even after a second viewing I thought it was just a solid all around film with a good story, likable characters to root for, cool action, cinematography and music, it even has my finger hovering over the "preorder" button for HT Batman, Flash, and Kara which I haven't done in a while.

I just watched it and overall it was an enjoyable movie. Keaton was the stand out for me but I am a huge 89 Batman fan. Ezra Miller did a great job playing 2 different versions of the Flash and making them unique. Some of the CGI is bad but no worse than some of the original Black Panther.

 

[Khev]

I just watched it and overall it was an enjoyable movie. Keaton was the stand out for me but I am a huge 89 Batman fan. Ezra Miller did a great job playing 2 different versions of the Flash and making them unique. Some of the CGI is bad but no worse than some of the original Black Panther.

Exactly!

I think this movie was judged more for it's baggage than the end result because it was just solid entertainment that did a great job showcasing a legacy character. I know a ton of big movies bombed this summer but I think it's too bad that this one didn't do better.

Bought the 4K disc today and am looking forward to much improved sound for my third viewing, lol.

 

[T8OO]

I don’t think you understand and want to pick and choose what you want to hear which is what the cult does. So let me explain it to you in a way you understand

Ahem

Mcu c list heroes . Was still getting its stride. Cap and iron man … not big as Superman .. ok? At that time

Spider-Man homecoming…. 3rd Spider-Man reboot. Asm was not well received. Homecoming was the first movie in a new reboot and people were already tired of rebooting Spider-Man at that point.

Batman meeting Superman . Hasn’t been done before.
Kick starting a mcu like dc universe. Immense hype since Superman and Batman were popular films and characters. In the making for years before the mcu was even a thing

Two icons finally meeting on the big screen for the FIRST time. Should have been an immense hit and easily crossed a billion. But… movie sucked causing divide among fans. Guess what? The franchise is now on fire.

Now course correcting begins.
Meanwhile people are embrace the new Spider-Man and despite people not liking everything it still made a billion in his next films thanks to his increased popularity in other films.

Again it’s not hard to understand why it failed. It’s not hard to see why Spider-Man succeeded and bvs failed. You are comparing a movie that was trying to kick start a universe while putting two iconic characters on screen for the first time to a third reboot on a franchise that was on uneven ground cause of asm2.

I don’t know why Snyder Stans can’t see that. You can see it as a gem to cinema but for the rest of the world it sucked

Iron Man and Captain America were C-list heroes in 2016? Not on planet Earth they weren't.

We've been down this road. You think I'm deluded, I think you are. People don't want to read everything we have to say to each other so I'll drop it.

 

[T8OO]

Exactly!

I think this movie was judged more for it's baggage than the end result because it was just solid entertainment that did a great job showcasing a legacy character. I know a ton of big movies bombed this summer but I think it's too bad that this one didn't do better.

Bought the 4K disc today and am looking forward to much improved sound for my third viewing, lol.

It definitely had baggage. I only went to see it for my kid's sake and I did enjoy it, on a similar level to Aquaman. It wasn't what I wanted but it was a fun time with some good moments.

Granted I like having the better sound, but I always got more from the picture on a 4K disc.

 

[ironwez20]

Iron Man and Captain America were C-list heroes in 2016? Not on planet Earth they weren't.

We've been down this road. You think I'm deluded, I think you are. People don't want to read everything we have to say to each other so I'll drop it.

Compared to Batman and Superman? Who never been in the same film before for the first time? Yes. It’s not hard to grasp and yes I think you are heavily deluded but that’s ok I still love ya

 

[Captain Clown]

True. I guess since he still kills Batman anyway that I'm fine with a little artistic inconsistency in his power level to give Keaton a few extra cool moments.

Yeah, I know it doesn't weaken them like being around real Kryptonite per se but I couldn't recall Kryptonian metal being able to hurt them while they were on Earth. If that's something that turns out to be a retcon as well then it's a welcome one in my mind, I've never loved the fact that true Kryptonite is the only thing that can hurt them physically. Good call on mentioning Doomsday's bone spikes.

I think Doomsday’s spike punctured Superman due to the close proximity of the kryptonite spear. Near the beginning of BvS they needed kryptonite tools to operate on Zod’s body.

Also, as someone who loves Snyder’s DC movies and Affleck’s Batman, The Flash broke my heart. I left that movie with a similar feeling to the one I had walking out of Pacific Rim 2.

 

[Khev]

I've watched it three times now and the fates of Kara and Keaton hit hard every time. Compared to NWH where it's a shock when Tobey Maguire gets stabbed by Goblin and then that scene has absolutely zero impact for every viewing going forward.

I watched all the deleted scenes on the 4K disc. They definitely made a good call with removing every single one IMO and that's just further evidence to me that the director knew what he was doing in making the best film possible.

I read that the original ending had Keaton and Kara showing up at the court house instead of Clooney. That would have been lame IMO. Not only would it have taken the BTTF parallels to a ridiculous level but it's not like those would have been the same characters from the other universe anyway so still not technically a happy ending for them.

Lots of clever little bits in the film. Like Iris West telling original Barry that thinking you can go back in time will drive you insane. Early in the movie it feels like a throw-away line that any normal person who doesn't believe in time travel would say but it turns out to literally foreshadow what happens to young Barry later on. Very cool.

When Barry tells Keaton "I can't bring you back can I?" he thinks it's because Keaton is "fated" to die when in reality it's only because you literally can't change anything in any given timeline, you can only create new ones. So *that* Keaton can never be saved, nor could that Kara or the previous one. This movie is kind of disturbing and sad in a way that I'm still not sure that I like (lol) but I can't deny that it's thoroughly entertaining throughout regardless and absolutely packs a punch.