Those who disliked TLJ, are you still buying toys from it?

[Reefer Shark]

Come on over, we will throw back some (many) beers and I'll tell you everything I dislike about TLJ

Haha Im always down for many beers!

 

[ajp4mgs]

My question too when I’m reading all the complaints here lol

Funny enough, I only seem to hear all the negative stuff online from the uber fans. Out of all the people I’ve spoken to in person, only one has expressed dissapointkent in the new movie. Everyone else has told me they loved it (and I’m in that camp as well). Not saying its a perfect movie, none of the Star Wars movies are. But honestly, thats certainly not what attracted everyone to these movies in the first place right?

With every day that goes by, I'm sympathizing more and more with the point of view that you're expressing here. But to be fair, the uber fans weren't as brutal with Force Awakens as with Last Jedi, so I think TLJ just pushed too many buttons for the same fans to accept it (with flaws and all) the way FA was accepted in spite of its own flaws.

I do think some of the criticism can be a bit hard to understand, though. Especially when the criticism could just as easily apply to the movies in the OT that we all love nearly unanimously. When a complaint is posted asking why Hux or Kylo didn't just destroy the Resistance ships in a more expeditious manner, I can't help but wonder why the answer isn't the same one as to the question of why Vader wanted to board the blockade runner in ANH instead of just having the Star Destroyer blow it to pieces (and the Death Star plans right along with it): it would have made for a really short movie. I think it's that simple. I don't mind that Vader chose to "tear this ship apart" until they "found those plans." If he had just used the Star Destroyer to destroy Leia's ship, we get no rest of the movie.

It's Star Wars, so we'll always want more (and better) than what we get, but I concede your point that many less-hardcore fans seem to be enjoying it without getting caught up in the flaws. The more hardcore fans just have a deeper understanding of the SW universe, and hold each new movie to that standard. I think Episode 9 can still make most people happy. It's not over yet. Fingers crossed.

 

[medicomsucks]

With every day that goes by, I'm sympathizing more and more with the point of view that you're expressing here. But to be fair, the uber fans weren't as brutal with Force Awakens as with Last Jedi, so I think TLJ just pushed too many buttons for the same fans to accept it (with flaws and all) the way FA was accepted in spite of its own flaws.

I do think some of the criticism can be a bit hard to understand, though. Especially when the criticism could just as easily apply to the movies in the OT that we all love nearly unanimously. When a complaint is posted asking why Hux or Kylo didn't just destroy the Resistance ships in a more expeditious manner, I can't help but wonder why the answer isn't the same one as to the question of why Vader wanted to board the blockade runner in ANH instead of just having the Star Destroyer blow it to pieces (and the Death Star plans right along with it): it would have made for a really short movie. I think it's that simple. I don't mind that Vader chose to "tear this ship apart" until they "found those plans." If he had just used the Star Destroyer to destroy Leia's ship, we get no rest of the movie.

It's Star Wars, so we'll always want more (and better) than what we get, but I concede your point that many less-hardcore fans seem to be enjoying it without getting caught up in the flaws. The more hardcore fans just have a deeper understanding of the SW universe, and hold each new movie to that standard. I think Episode 9 can still make most people happy. It's not over yet. Fingers crossed.

I'm not an uber fan, my thinking may be flawed, but at the time in ANH that I think you are alluding too, the senate is apparenly still relevant, and with Leia being a senator, it may have been ill advised to just blow her up. Later on, Tarkin reports the imperial senate has been disolved by the emporer, leaving regional governors in command.

I'm not clear how rogue one has changed things. If you follow that path, vader clearly knows the plans made it onto the blockade runner. If you disregard rogue one, I'm not sure it's explained how vader knows they are on that ship. I seem to remember the novel offering an explanation but I don't remember what it was. However, rebel BLOCKADE runner may offer some insight.

Don't think I helped but I tried.

 

[screamingmetal]

So now all of a sudden we should be worried about realistic tactics in the Last Jedi? Not disputing the ridiculous plot elements in some parts, but Star Wars has never used realistic tactics in any of the movies. Stormtroopers have awful room clearing technique, etc etc. Point is, from a military standpoint, Star Wars is a complete mess WAY before TLJ. But that doesn’t stop us from enjoying it, so why start now?

No one mentioned realistic tactics, just that TLJ is inconstant with what has been shown in the other SW films and within TLJ itself.
The OT had issues that I even noticed as a kid, but they can be overlooked for the quality of the whole movie, TLJ was a s--- movie from top to bottom in every aspect, not just the tactics of a few scenes.

 

[Reefer Shark]

With every day that goes by, I'm sympathizing more and more with the point of view that you're expressing here. But to be fair, the uber fans weren't as brutal with Force Awakens as with Last Jedi, so I think TLJ just pushed too many buttons for the same fans to accept it (with flaws and all) the way FA was accepted in spite of its own flaws.

I do think some of the criticism can be a bit hard to understand, though. Especially when the criticism could just as easily apply to the movies in the OT that we all love nearly unanimously. When a complaint is posted asking why Hux or Kylo didn't just destroy the Resistance ships in a more expeditious manner, I can't help but wonder why the answer isn't the same one as to the question of why Vader wanted to board the blockade runner in ANH instead of just having the Star Destroyer blow it to pieces (and the Death Star plans right along with it): it would have made for a really short movie. I think it's that simple. I don't mind that Vader chose to "tear this ship apart" until they "found those plans." If he had just used the Star Destroyer to destroy Leia's ship, we get no rest of the movie.

It's Star Wars, so we'll always want more (and better) than what we get, but I concede your point that many less-hardcore fans seem to be enjoying it without getting caught up in the flaws. The more hardcore fans just have a deeper understanding of the SW universe, and hold each new movie to that standard. I think Episode 9 can still make most people happy. It's not over yet. Fingers crossed.

You make a good point (and medicomsucks makes a good counter point lol).

The one thing thats for sure is that this is the most polarizing sw flick yet. I really think that it caught everyone off their toes, and the reactions are fairly extreme.

It’ll be interesting to see what people think after the movie has sunk in for a few years.

 

[medicomsucks]

You make a good point (and medicomsucks makes a good counter point lol).

The one thing thats for sure is that this is the most polarizing sw flick yet. I really think that it caught everyone off their toes, and the reactions are fairly extreme.

It’ll be interesting to see what people think after the movie has sunk in for a few years.

Yes I can't remember a movie that incited passion on this level...maybe the male lead being cast in 50 shades of...oh my god!

 

[Reefer Shark]

Yes I can't remember a movie that incited passion on this level...maybe the male lead being cast in 50 shades of...oh my god!

 

[Spazz]

I love Star Wars. But it's a bit like family or friends that visit every few years - some visits are better than others. Right now it's visiting frequently and trying just a bit too damn hard to please everyone.

Ease up Disney/LFL. Marvel figured it out with Deadpool - when you're making multiple Superhero movies it's OK for them to target a specific audience sometimes. If I knew the game plan was the "episodes" are all ages slanting towards younger viewers and the "Stories" were for older fans like us... I think we'd all relax a bit.

I think you're absolutely right. If Star Wars compartmentalized, and aimed their "Story" films at older audiences explicitly, fans of the original trilogy would likely be more open-minded toward some of the changes being made within the new trilogy. I really liked Rogue One, myself.

All of the original characters should have been relegated to the "Story" line. The new characters should have been given their own series, so that there was emphasis on character development instead of relying on nostalgia, which disappointed older audiences when the characters were handled frivolously. I still think that TLJ wasn't a very good movie, but it wouldn't evoke the contempt I have for the film, were it not:

- chauvinistically politicizing a mythology I grew up with, at me
- undermining the internal logic of the franchise,
- doing away with the subtext and thematic consistency of the original films,
- disregarding sensible character development for aging characters

Remove all that, and you have a benign, big budget film with bad dialogue and no plot. It wouldn't be worth commenting on, and I doubt I'd have bothered paying to see it. That's the issue though. Kathleen Kennedy wanted to benefit from nostalgia, while not feeling the need to cater to the demographic she was advertising to. It's honestly the most bizarre leadership I've ever seen for a franchise.

 

[medicomsucks]

I think you're absolutely right. If Star Wars compartmentalized, and aimed their "Story" films at older audiences explicitly, fans of the original trilogy would likely be more open-minded toward some of the changes being made within the new trilogy. I really liked Rogue One, myself.

All of the original characters should have been relegated to the "Story" line. The new characters should have been given their own series, so that there was emphasis on character development instead of relying on nostalgia, which disappointed older audiences when the characters were handled frivolously. I still think that TLJ wasn't a very good movie, but it wouldn't evoke the contempt I have for the film, were it not:

- chauvinistically politicizing a mythology I grew up with, at me
- undermining the internal logic of the franchise,
- doing away with the subtext and thematic consistency of the original films,
- disregarding sensible character development for aging characters

Remove all that, and you have a benign, big budget film with bad dialogue and no plot. It wouldn't be worth commenting on, and I doubt I'd have bothered paying to see it. That's the issue though. Kathleen Kennedy wanted to benefit from nostalgia, while not feeling the need to cater to the demographic she was advertising to. It's honestly the most bizarre leadership I've ever seen for a franchise.

I can't speak for the motivations of Kathleen Kennedy, but if what you wrote is true, then It's also a big gamble. Who do they think is buying the majority of star wars toys? I doubt it's children, maybe, but my suspicion is over 40 white men probably make up the bulk of consumers. Maybe that's why Lucas decided to sell it while he could still get something for it.

 

[Spazz]

I can't speak for the motivations of Kathleen Kennedy, but if what you wrote is true, then It's also a big gamble. Who do they think is buying the majority of star wars toys? I doubt it's children, maybe, but my suspicion is over 40 white men probably make up the bulk of consumers. Maybe that's why Lucas decided to sell it while he could still get something for it.

I've been really hard on TLJ, and people often assume it's because I'm opposed to a diversified cast. That's not true. I think it's a good idea to create movies that reflect a society of different races and ethnicity, sex and sexuality etc. I want the children in my family to grow up around people different from them, without constantly focusing on differences that have nothing to do with one's character. As i mentioned, I think Rogue One was a good Star Wars film.

However, chauvinism is irrational. The Last Jedi was the most chauvinistic mainstream film I have seen, in recent memory. It was pathetic. In that sense you're right, I don't think very many middle aged men will be purchasing high end collectibles, or very many toys for their children. Meanwhile, toys are as large an industry as the movies themselves. The business model is puzzling.

 

[ShadowX81]

Yeah I agree with that. I’m just saying it’s intellectually dishonest for someone to complain about the tactics in TLJ but seemingly be fine with the tactics in previous movies. All Star Wars movies have horrible tactics and aren’t the best written movies, but they’re still fun.

Yes and no. You are correct that military tactics in Star Wars have always been a mess from day one.

However I think there is a difference between movies containing information that is factually incorrect in real life but makes the story work, and a character making a dumb decision to make the plot go in the direction the writer wants it to. Audiences respect a smart character, and project themselves onto a one they can respect and relate to. Whenever a character does something really dumb that we would never do ourselves, we as the audience suddenly cant relate to them and it takes us right out of the story.

Our brain picks up on this stuff. Anytime something happens and you catch yourself thinking "What?" or "Why did they do that?" its a bad thing.

 

[acesh007]

I actually am getting rid of all the Force Awakens stuff I had purchased. I agree with a lot of people here on TLJ being a mess. As a minority I think that LFL/Disney pushing minority characters, for the sake of marketing, is just bad and transparent. I believe if someone is good in a role, they should be cast, not the other way around.

I think the only figure I may think about getting is Poe but other than that, I began my new trilogy purge. I didn't really like TFA and TLJ (I thought) was a hot mess. I can separate the Science from the Sci-Fi (even for being an engineer) and the military tactics for what they are (being in the Army for 5yrs) but TLJ was just bad overall.

 

[sithlord13]

The original trilogy has some massive plot holes and parts that are regrettable. The difference is that things change and the average film goers expectations with them. What people would accept then isn’t the same as now. The internet has led to a culture of dissecting films and as a result things need to be better written. The prequels struggled with this and it’s why they are such a mixed bag but the sequels needed to be better and Disney just haven’t bothered. It’s being made up on the fly and it shows.
And Disney are capable. The mcu shows that largely a film series can work.
And that’s the shame to be too lazy to care enough to write for the current fans and current expectations

 

[phobicsquirrel]

I won't be supporting any figures from TLJ. Sadly though, no matter what SW stuff I buy Disney gets some of it so either way it probably doesn't matter. I hated TLJ with a passion and haven't really liked any of the new characters enough to buy them. I was hoping to get an older luke but after seeing his horrible protrayle in the film I'll pass. Luckily HT has a ROTJ Luke coming so that'll do.

 

[phobicsquirrel]

F these new movies. Will never buy anything Disney/Star Wars.

I agree but Disney OWNS SW so anything we buy SW they'll be getting some kickback I'm sure.

 

[Darth Fok]

If they release a Crait Luke everything else will be forgiven

 

[Nailz]

I liked the force awaken , bought zero figures

I hated the last jedi, i wouldnt display any of them if the wife bought me one as a surpise gift

 

[koonfasa]

Loot crates are like gambling.

 

[Matner77]

I came away underwhelmed on first viewing, although there was a good deal I enjoyed about the film.
As far as figures I had planned to get (if released) Holdo, Rose & DJ, however none of these characters are worth 200+ quid as a figure. Benicio del Toro was wasted I thought.
Already planned on TFA Luke, but after seeing the released figure I'll defer to the TLJ version. Poe I've been waiting for since TFA and I like the Leia although it does need some tweeking.
Already have Rey, Finn & Kylo and see no need to duplicate them.
So it's only Luke, Leia, Poe and a Praetorian guard for me from this film

 

[CrankbaitJon]

If they release a Crait Luke everything else will be forgiven

That figure has to come, no way HTs will pass on that!