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Personally, they are killing the hobby for me. People Collect because their is a chance their values may go up and its an enjoyable at the same time. Raising the price is making it less enjoyable and open ES is cutting into resale potential.

Resale potential for collectors isn't their concern and it shouldn't be. For one, the market and flippers determine those values. Two, resales don't bring them money, sales do. Resale potential is really a byproduct of several factors which would be more important to evaluate in business sense.

About open ES, that's usually on the highest priced collectibles, like LSFs. Those highest valued items will have more limited ownership regardless, because they are expensive. The average middle class collector cant reasonably spend $1000+ on a statue when bills need to still be paid, so having an open ES isn't as much of a big deal. Most of you will never own them, and at those prices most people who buy will probably not buy with the intention to flip. In reality many will express interest and want but ultimately won't buy, no matter what they say, open ES or not, most can't reasonably afford it.
 
does anyone know if they are going to tone the body of this hulk up and give it muscular defenition like the HULK PF'S? it looks too flabby and looks like its got water retention.... like arnold shawz______ now, all them roids bulked him up and now his skin is looose and hanging like a old womans V..Jay Jay that hangs like a wizards sleeve ... ERRRRRRRRRR lmao
 
The paint job should be top notch given that, when all is said and done, is a sculpt of a green guy with pants.

The accuracy police will fight you on trying to "tone up" the sculpt itself.
 
Resale potential for collectors isn't their concern and it shouldn't be. For one, the market and flippers determine those values. Two, resales don't bring them money, sales do. Resale potential is really a byproduct of several factors which would be more important to evaluate in business sense.

About open ES, that's usually on the highest priced collectibles, like LSFs. Those highest valued items will have more limited ownership regardless, because they are expensive. The average middle class collector cant reasonably spend $1000+ on a statue when bills need to still be paid, so having an open ES isn't as much of a big deal. Most of you will never own them, and at those prices most people who buy will probably not buy with the intention to flip. In reality many will express interest and want but ultimately won't buy, no matter what they say, open ES or not, most can't reasonably afford it.

Having extensive experience with the [non-Barbie] fashion doll world, I have seen this issue play out quite a bit. There are fashion doll manufacturers who INTENTIONALLY keep issues tiny and prices high. This means there are 100,000 collectors out there jostling for an edition of 150 worldwide, staying up all night on release-date with thier fingers on the "refresh" icon. You simply canNOT believe how stressful this is when you really, really just have to have an item. O.M.G.

THEN on top of that, one person will snag say.... 5 out of that precious and scarce 150, for the specific purpose of trying to make a killing on EvilBay with the other 4. Oh the resentment this causes!! I honestly think its a bad-karma thing and I would never do it. I would much prefer to let someone else who loves the item as much as I do, have a shot at getting one.

So I would much rather see a large or unlimited edition, than chance missing out on the item. It really, really hurts when I cant own something I want so much that it keeps me awake at night; and judging from the raging arguments on fashion-doll boards every time this happens, I know I am not alone on this issue.

With that said, this Hulk maquette[?] is a magnificent piece, even though I am not a fan of the character. Don't kid yourselves, if that thing ever hits the market it is going to command $1000+ out of the gate. I am just glad it concerns a character who is not one of my favorites: temptation removed, lol.
 
does anyone know if they are going to tone the body of this hulk up and give it muscular defenition like the HULK PF'S?

Why would they, the Avengers Hulk wasn't overly toned

They intentionally wanted him to just be mover massive and not as muscularly defined as the 2008 CGI Hulk.
 
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Resale potential for collectors isn't their concern and it shouldn't be. For one, the market and flippers determine those values. Two, resales don't bring them money, sales do. Resale potential is really a byproduct of several factors which would be more important to evaluate in business sense.

About open ES, that's usually on the highest priced collectibles, like LSFs. Those highest valued items will have more limited ownership regardless, because they are expensive. The average middle class collector cant reasonably spend $1000+ on a statue when bills need to still be paid, so having an open ES isn't as much of a big deal. Most of you will never own them, and at those prices most people who buy will probably not buy with the intention to flip. In reality many will express interest and want but ultimately won't buy, no matter what they say, open ES or not, most can't reasonably afford it.

I collect alot of different mediums outside of the this, private art, original art, vases, antiques, books, even applies to cars. ES is everything, the more in price you command the more exclusive the item needs to be. Its like that in everything, no one will pay top dollar for an item in abundant quantity ie beanie babies or gi joes or comics in the 90's. Floud the market and you kill it. Im not a fllipper but if I start to conclude this collectible hobby is getting watered down I will sell it all. Been there, seen it happen. I can buy a bowen on ebay at 50% off retail if I want a cool statue. I pay this price for exclusive ownership in a fine item.
 
Hey Everyone,

I have been looking at some old pages on this thread and just thought I would share some light on why most people (not me) prefer hot toys over statues or PFs. That being said I do collect hot toys.

I've never really 'got' Hottoys. The detail is amazing but as said they are toys, like action men when I was a kid. Mighty damn expensive plastic IMO. I prefer mighty damn expensive polystone. :wink1:

Yes I prefer polystone or resin not PVC or plastic junk. Also what is with the all the accessories they come with and all those multiple hands? That kind of stuff makes them like action men (like you said) and is stuff I would want if I was a kid not an adult.

HT fans are die hard, brothers. I am not among them, but I respect their opinions. I can see why they love them, as they are mostly of a very high quality with great details and likenesses. Personally, I prefer statues, but that's just me.

Now what I have highlighted in bold is the main reason that people prefer hot toys over sideshow statues/PFs and that is because hot toys figures usually have better likeness than sideshow statues or PFs, which I am sorry to say :( This is why I feel forced to buy these hot toys dolls because they have such really good likeness (most of the time).

The hot toys Terminator figures have better likeness to any sideshow PFs or statues ever made, yet look more like toys. Whereas sideshow ones look like works art (due to the better material used) with less likeness. I prefer likeness to the character than works of art with less likeness to the character, even if it is a doll :(

Hopefully, this is now starting to change around, since the Black Widow has really good likeness and does not look like a barbie doll that the hot toys one does. :pray:

Not to mention the new Hulk PF, which is the sole topic for this thread, I do not care how much it cost that is something I will be getting!

:yess:
 
I collect alot of different mediums outside of the this, private art, original art, vases, antiques, books, even applies to cars. ES is everything, the more in price you command the more exclusive the item needs to be. Its like that in everything, no one will pay top dollar for an item in abundant quantity ie beanie babies or gi joes or comics in the 90's. Flood the market and you kill it. Im not a fllipper but if I start to conclude this collectible hobby is getting watered down I will sell it all. Been there, seen it happen. I can buy a bowen on ebay at 50% off retail if I want a cool statue. I pay this price for exclusive ownership in a fine item.

Your problem is that a given vendor can make a lot more money selling 10,000 of a given thing, rather than ten "exclusive" $1000 things. Most vendors are not really interested in enhancing the secondary market - why would they be? They don't get a piece of that.

If purchasing for investment value, really this type of collectible is a total crapshoot; 99 out of a hundred collectibles, if you try to sell them you are not even going to recoup your original price.

You are much safer purchasing items that you truly love and plan to keep forever. I can't TELL you the teeth-gnashing I have seen over "I paid $200 for this, and I can't sell it for $20 on EvilBay now, wtf!!" That's how the market rolls.
 
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Your problem is that a given vendor can make a lot more money selling 10,000 of a given thing, rather than ten "exclusive" $1000 things. Most vendors are not really interested in enhancing the secondary market - why would they be? They don't get a piece of that.

If purchasing for investment value, really this type of collectible is a total crapshoot; 99 out of a hundred collectibles, if you try to sell them you are not even going to recoup your original price.

You are much safer purchasing items that you truly love and plan to keep forever. I can't TELL you the teeth-gnashing I have seen over "I paid $200 for this, and I can't sell it for $20 on EvilBay now, wtf!!" That's how the market rolls.


I think it is beneficial to a vendor to have their products increase in value on the secondary market. It entices new customers (like me) to justify spending a significant amount of money on a non-essential item. Collectibles do not get "used"..they just sit there. Therefore they should not depreciate IMO. I don't purchase with the intent to resell, I just hope the price/edition size are such that each piece at least holds it's original retail value.
 
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All of this talk about secondary market value makes my head spin. I myself got into this hobby with no thought what so ever about what the value might be down the road. This is a hobby for fans IMO. They are mass produced replicas of pop culture icons. Sure it's nice to know that perhaps something I buy might increase in value down the road. But I don't buy something and hope it goes up in value. It is a crap shoot as someone said. If I decide to sell because I need funds for something else I am happy if the value is the same as when I first bought it.

Flippers have ruined this hobby a bit. And imo they should GTFO but hey it's a free country.

But I personally don't care if they make 15 or 10,000 Hulks as long as I get one. If it goes up in value...Great. If it goes down in value....Great. As long as I have it and love it I really don't care.

When I bought my JAWS NTT limited edition of 75. I did not buy it because I thought it might shoot up in value. No I bought it because I love JAWS and it was the best Jaws related product out there. If it ends up being worth only 10.00 tomorrow I don't care. I have no plans to ever sell it. Yes it is cool that I am one of 75 who own it. But I really would not care if there where a 1000 of them out there.

If selling the items was the first thing on my mind I would never have gotten into this hobby in the first place.

People who get into this just to flip really kind of suck IMO.
 
You guys are going have to wait until after the Skaar PF statue has shipped. SSC will not release this for order until that happens.
 
But I personally don't care if they make 15 or 10,000 Hulks as long as I get one. If it goes up in value...Great. If it goes down in value....Great. As long as I have it and love it I really don't care.

Great minds think alike, heh.

I really don't care about aftermarket values, when I buy something it is probably here to stay. I buy what I love, and you cannot go wrong doing that. Flipping is incredibly risky, for every time a flipper makes a killing on the secondary market, there are 75 times they end up losing their shirts or being forced to "sit" on an item for years, hoping against hope that prices will someday rise. I've seen it happen a million times, and when they start posting on a board about how awful a time they are having, I just smile to myself and say nothing.

I'm evil like that.
 
I collect alot of different mediums outside of the this, private art, original art, vases, antiques, books, even applies to cars. ES is everything, the more in price you command the more exclusive the item needs to be. Its like that in everything, no one will pay top dollar for an item in abundant quantity ie beanie babies or gi joes or comics in the 90's. Floud the market and you kill it. Im not a fllipper but if I start to conclude this collectible hobby is getting watered down I will sell it all. Been there, seen it happen. I can buy a bowen on ebay at 50% off retail if I want a cool statue. I pay this price for exclusive ownership in a fine item.

I think generally this is true. That's why SS releses certain characters sparingly, and even the saturated characters appear in different formats to prevent oversaturation. If Bowen releases Wolverine, you can pass and wait for the next one. If SS releases him, you know it will probably be a while before there's another one in the same format.

But I mentioned LSFs because it's an exception to the ES and price "rule". Those higher priced items can have open ES (and I'm not saying they shouldn't or should, I'm just looking at what is) because most people won't afford one anyway. The fact that they cost so much yet continuosly have open ES is enough proof. They're made to afford, and most in the market are out priced already, which will limit ownership without the need of establishing a preset number.

I wouldn't tell anybody the proper way of collecting, some do collect for value. But if there were thousands of Gambit PFs, everyone had one and it didn't go for the value it goes for now, it'd still be one of my favorite peices in my collection and I'd keep it because I value the actual product, its aftermarket value is just icing on the cake.

Your problem is that a given vendor can make a lot more money selling 10,000 of a given thing, rather than ten "exclusive" $1000 things. Most vendors are not really interested in enhancing the secondary market - why would they be? They don't get a piece of that.

If purchasing for investment value, really this type of collectible is a total crapshoot; 99 out of a hundred collectibles, if you try to sell them you are not even going to recoup your original price.

You are much safer purchasing items that you truly love and plan to keep forever. I can't TELL you the teeth-gnashing I have seen over "I paid $200 for this, and I can't sell it for $20 on EvilBay now, wtf!!" That's how the market rolls.

:goodpost:
Like I said before the vendor isn't ineterested in after market values, but I think they are interested in some factors that would affect the after market value, such as the limited nature and appearance of the product. After market values are products of those and other factors. A product can be limited all it wants, but if people think it's ugly or uncool they won't want it anyway (although this is one of the few hobbies where people will complain yet still buy something they think is ugly...Cyclops EX).

All of this talk about secondary market value makes my head spin. I myself got into this hobby with no thought what so ever about what the value might be down the road. This is a hobby for fans IMO. They are mass produced replicas of pop culture icons. Sure it's nice to know that perhaps something I buy might increase in value down the road. But I don't buy something and hope it goes up in value. It is a crap shoot as someone said. If I decide to sell because I need funds for something else I am happy if the value is the same as when I first bought it.

Flippers have ruined this hobby a bit. And imo they should GTFO but hey it's a free country.

But I personally don't care if they make 15 or 10,000 Hulks as long as I get one. If it goes up in value...Great. If it goes down in value....Great. As long as I have it and love it I really don't care.

When I bought my JAWS NTT limited edition of 75. I did not buy it because I thought it might shoot up in value. No I bought it because I love JAWS and it was the best Jaws related product out there. If it ends up being worth only 10.00 tomorrow I don't care. I have no plans to ever sell it. Yes it is cool that I am one of 75 who own it. But I really would not care if there where a 1000 of them out there.

If selling the items was the first thing on my mind I would never have gotten into this hobby in the first place.

People who get into this just to flip really kind of suck IMO.

:exactly:
Nothing we can do about it so I don't let it bother me, but I agree.
 
Part of the reason these pieces cost hundreds is because they are limited in nature. It's the definition of something being collectible. Terms that we often use like "exclusive" are meant by definition to "exclude" a large amount of people from owning something. Edition sizes serve the same purpose. Unlimited supply would kill the hobby as easy as a pack of scalpers. Ignoring Sideshow's new business model of super secret edition sizes (open edition) items is a mistake. Regardless of whatever apathy some feel about edition sizes and it not affecting their personal way of collecting, it does affect the hobby. How long before all PFs are open edition? Every collector should have a shot to get what makes them happy, right?

Again, you are paying HUNDREDS of dollars to own cool toys. It is a little bit more serious than just "buy what you like" for a majority of collectors. Questions like "how long will this be available?" or "perhaps I should wait for the upcoming version and pass on this??" are things that most ask before simply "buying what they like". Try unloading an inferior piece when a new/better one comes out right around the corner from the same or a different company.

I know some here claim to have evolved beyond caring about aftermarket prices, but it certainly is one of the realities that help us decide what to buy now or wait to purchase later. This hobby that seems to have exploded in popularity in the past few years came from collectible items that looked amazing AND were limited in nature. Take that away and some people may just wake up one morning and ask: Why the heck am I buying all this expensive stuff that won't even hold it's value???
 
I think generally this is true. That's why SS releses certain characters sparingly, and even the saturated characters appear in different formats to prevent oversaturation. If Bowen releases Wolverine, you can pass and wait for the next one. If SS releases him, you know it will probably be a while before there's another one in the same format.

But I mentioned LSFs because it's an exception to the ES and price "rule". Those higher priced items can have open ES (and I'm not saying they shouldn't or should, I'm just looking at what is) because most people won't afford one anyway. The fact that they cost so much yet continuosly have open ES is enough proof. They're made to afford, and most in the market are out priced already, which will limit ownership without the need of establishing a preset number.

I wouldn't tell anybody the proper way of collecting, some do collect for value. But if there were thousands of Gambit PFs, everyone had one and it didn't go for the value it goes for now, it'd still be one of my favorite peices in my collection and I'd keep it because I value the actual product, its aftermarket value is just icing on the cake.



:goodpost:
Like I said before the vendor isn't ineterested in after market values, but I think they are interested in some factors that would affect the after market value, such as the limited nature and appearance of the product. After market values are products of those and other factors. A product can be limited all it wants, but if people think it's ugly or uncool they won't want it anyway (although this is one of the few hobbies where people will complain yet still buy something they think is ugly...Cyclops EX).



:exactly:
Nothing we can do about it so I don't let it bother me, but I agree.

No i will get the hulk due to me liking him. And not because of reselling later on. I want something that will never be made again in that pose and ssc provides that. Example is doom pf they'll never make that again but will instead make another one of him in pf but a different pose and that will make that pf unique. That is what i like. Hot toys and 12 inch figures milk the same figure over and over and it is the same thing again. Statues or maquettes you can mold to a different pose and that is what i like. I can buy different poses and no matter if the same character, it will be unique. And ssc is the one of a few that does this. This is why i don't buy much of the 1/6 line and go more for statues.
 
Why the heck am I buying all this expensive stuff that won't even hold it's value???

Because I buy what I love. Now my collection has been ever changing in the quest for the perfect set up (for me).

Now I have bought pieces and kept them for a while and something better has come along and I sold it. I have bought items that I have had for a few days and sold it because it just did not have that "it" factor when I got it in hand. Now I would not take those chances if I did not feel I could not a least get my money back so that is the one nice thing about this hobby. I have not really lost anything (must be I have great taste :) )

But if you are getting into this hobby for profit I would try and find something else. Not enough items go up in value.
 
Now I would not take those chances if I did not feel I could not a least get my money back so that is the one nice thing about this hobby.

I think that is largely his point. Open Edition Sizes of thousands upon thousands diminish the need to buy certain pieces at retail. I like looking at my collection of pieces that I never plan to sell and knowing that I wasn't duped into paying top dollar for something that plummeted in price on the aftermarket.
 
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