Hot Toys: The Dark Knight: 1/4 The Joker

[TheBatman]

I'm just glad they decided to go with the mob scene for his look.

Same here. I have DX01 and looking to sell it for this.

 

[batfan08]

I remember you mentioned why not use a 3rd party sculptor in a previous post... Well, look at Prime1... they used the great Adam Gu who is notorious for amazing Joker sculpts, I think we can all agree with that. And look what he delivered for Prime1. Sure it looks like HL but doesn't capture any of the Joker's character. Looks sleepy or like he was just told his dog died. So even with an amazing sculptor like Adam, there's no guarantee that you'll still get a super awesome sculpt.

Now, do I think it would've been cool to have a laughing sculpt like the DX11? or a smiling, yellow teeth showing sculpt? heck yea! but for me, I am in no way disappointed with this release. Overall it looks great, the tailoring looks and will be better than EB, body will more than likely be better than EB along with overall production quality. Knowing these things makes me pretty happy with this release. I understand some disappointment but some of this as usual in a TDK Joker thread is outrageous and quote comical everyone always gets so worked up over these TDK releases more than anything I've ever seen on this or any other board

View attachment 355695

See, that's the thing, though. You're talking about how Adam's Joker sculpts can sometimes look sad, and I would agree with that. It's one of my biggest gripes with a ton of his earlier sculpts is that so many of them just have that blank look, but the thing is: they still looked like Ledger, and, on that note, I'd say that "sad" style has more to do with his paintwork than his sculpting ability. I don't even give a **** that they didn't get Adam, though, I think it's well within their capabilities and they clearly pay enough attention to the surrounding collecting community to pull stunts like hiring Kato for the DX 11. So, why is it that, in 10 years, they still haven't learned that Yulli just isn't cutting it?

That's not even a knock on her skills. It's just that some people are better at capturing certain likenesses than others, yet HT treats her like her area of expertise is in Ledger when it so clearly isn't. Then, they pull the whole "dual face" thing which makes it even more blatant because I truly believe that the whole reason so many of you find her sculpts "forgivable" or even "great" is because you have JC Hong doing a damn great job of masking inaccuracies behind paint.

My biggest issue is that this is a step backward in every sense of the word except scale. The package is nowhere near as comprehensive as the QS 001, nor is the likeness anywhere near as good (nor close to the forthcoming Begins version of Batman, either), and, frankly speaking? The DX 2.0 blows it out of the water. Now, am I saying I expect a 1/4 scale table? No, but the DX 11 at least had additional features to fall back on that sort of masked any inaccuracies (the expression, for instance), and a laughing sculpt.

I don't know. I just don't get it. I look at the QS 001, I look at the QS 009, and I think "now there's a Batman," I look at this and I'm just like "what happened? Your balls drop off?"

 

[Gipetto0812]

I would still take Prime's over this any day, this looks so close MJ's one, the scars are more like deep cuts in the face.

Not true, there doesn't seem to many complaints about the likeness of the Bale at the 1/4 BB thread. People mainly get worked up over HTs Ledger's Joker, because time and time again HT fails to deliver. I honestly can't believe they got Yulli do this sculpt again, after all of her failed attempts. Do they think because she has sculpted Ledger so many times, that she would be the best at it, since practice makes perfect?

different strokes for different folks. I don't want sad panda sculpt of HL just b/c it's done by Adam. It might look like HL, but it doesn't emote the character at all.

And when I mention ppl always getting worked up over TDK releases I mean historically speaking. Yes it's usually the Joker but there have been complaints with the 1/6 BB figures. TONS of complaints with all TDK suit releases. It's not just solely the Joker. It gets ridiculous for all the characters in the TDK universe but it's worse for HL's Joker and I find it comical to say the least.

 

[batfan08]

different strokes for different folks. I don't want sad panda sculpt of HL just b/c it's done by Adam. It might look like HL, but it doesn't emote the character at all.

And when I mention ppl always getting worked up over TDK releases I mean historically speaking. Yes it's usually the Joker but there have been complaints with the 1/6 BB figures. TONS of complaints with all TDK suit releases. It's not just solely the Joker. It gets ridiculous for all the characters in the TDK universe but it's worse for HL's Joker and I find it comical to say the least.

Here's my thing: it wouldn't just be Adam. It would be Adam with JC Hong. I've noticed that whenever Adam does the neutral Ledger sculpts, they do get that "sad panda" look you're talking about, but, I also have never seen a time when one of those sculpts wasn't painted by the dude, and, just like JC Hong can bring subpar Yulli sculpts to life, I fail to see why the same couldn't be said of him tackling an Adam Gu Ledger, albeit this time having a canvas to paint over that actually captured the likeness of the actor it was supposed to.

 

[Darkavatar]

different strokes for different folks. I don't want sad panda sculpt of HL just b/c it's done by Adam. It might look like HL, but it doesn't emote the character at all.

Agreed, not to mention the awful neat make up pattern paint job on the sculpt. However, Adam's latest sculpt has proven that he can capture the essence of the Joker while retaining the likeness of Heath.

And when I mention ppl always getting worked up over TDK releases I mean historically speaking. Yes it's usually the Joker but there have been complaints with the 1/6 BB figures.

Oh ok, but weren't the complaints about the BB figures mainly QC problems, not just the cowl?

TONS of complaints with all TDK suit releases. It's not just solely the Joker.

That's true I guess, I remember people drawing circles and stuff over the TDKRs suit.

It gets ridiculous for all the characters in the TDK universe but it's worse for HL's Joker and I find it comical to say the least.

Fair enough, it can get out of hand.

 

[xpl0sive]

Nice to finally see the official photos of this figure now to get a better look at it. The clothing looks better than I initially thought and as a package it looks pretty good (minus the garbage base), so that's a tick, but I still don't like the head sculpt. It looks realistic, as in, it looks like a real person, but I just don't see Heath Ledger as the Joker in it. It kind of looks like him, but it almost just looks like they sculpted a regular Heath and then added scars, if that makes sense. Doesn't look like how he did in the film.

For all the flack it copped, I actually like the Premium Format sculpt better. Whilst it also has it's flaws and certainly doesn't look as realistic is this, I see more of the character in it.

Anyway, I'm happy for those who like it, but I think I'll pass. I sold all my Hot Toys a long time ago and no longer collect figures, only statues now, but I might be tempted to grab one of these if Hot Toys modifies the sculpt, but I doubt they will, especially if there's enough people happy enough with it as it is to order it.

Despite the sad clown look, I still think Prime 1's sculpt is the best mass produced Heath Ledger sculpt.

 

[Gipetto0812]

See, that's the thing, though. You're talking about how Adam's Joker sculpts can sometimes look sad, and I would agree with that. It's one of my biggest gripes with a ton of his earlier sculpts is that so many of them just have that blank look, but the thing is: they still looked like Ledger, and, on that note, I'd say that "sad" style has more to do with his paintwork than his sculpting ability. I don't even give a **** that they didn't get Adam, though, I think it's well within their capabilities and they clearly pay enough attention to the surrounding collecting community to pull stunts like hiring Kato for the DX 11. So, why is it that, in 10 years, they still haven't learned that Yulli just isn't cutting it?

That's not even a knock on her skills. It's just that some people are better at capturing certain likenesses than others, yet HT treats her like her area of expertise is in Ledger when it so clearly isn't. Then, they pull the whole "dual face" thing which makes it even more blatant because I truly believe that the whole reason so many of you find her sculpts "forgivable" or even "great" is because you have JC Hong doing a damn great job of masking inaccuracies behind paint.

My biggest issue is that this is a step backward in every sense of the word except scale. The package is nowhere near as comprehensive as the QS 001, nor is the likeness anywhere near as good (nor close to the forthcoming Begins version of Batman, either), and, frankly speaking? The DX 2.0 blows it out of the water. Now, am I saying I expect a 1/4 scale table? No, but the DX 11 at least had additional features to fall back on that sort of masked any inaccuracies (the expression, for instance), and a laughing sculpt.

I don't know. I just don't get it. I look at the QS 001, I look at the QS 009, and I think "now there's a Batman," I look at this and I'm just like "what happened? Your balls drop off?"

It think it's safe to say we see it differently For me, I see the half flesh tone sculpt and see Ledger, no question. So for me, the paint isn't masking anything. You don't see the same and, well, fortunately for me, that's not my problem. And yes I agree that it's nice that Adam's looks like Ledger as well, but it's missing any emotion or character that Heath put into the Joker. So it's still a fail in my book.

With all that said, I will say that I COMPLETELY understand your position about Yulli and this character. I feel the same way about Kojun and Jack Sparrow. No one usually agrees with me but that's fine. I buy it and modify as I see fit. And maybe that's another reason I don't get so muffed about these things. I may not be the greatest painter, but I'm not too shy to same that I'm talented enough to "fix" or improve upon certain things myself such as the MoS and BvS Superman figures for example. I've been modding figures since Sideshow started the 1/6 LOTR line so alot of things don't bother me. If I see something wrong I can usually fix it to my liking. I understand some ppl don't have that and/or don't feel that they should have to.

But I think you as well as anyone else can agree, there's always room for improvement. I by no means think this is the end all be all Joker sculpt. I don't think there will ever be one. look how many custom ones have been produced over the years...every single one is usually the next big thing and arguably even better than the last. I honestly think it's a matter of everyone finding one that they are individually satisfied with and that can/probably is the BR Joker sculpt for some. Others it might be the DX01, or the Cop sculpt and so on and so forth. Hypothetically speaking, if you absolutely loved this sculpt you'd probably think other's were crazy for bashing it

Agreed, not to mention the awful neat make up pattern paint job on the sculpt. However, Adam's latest sculpt has proven that he can capture the essence of the Joker while retaining the likeness of Heath.
Oh ok, but weren't the complaints about the BB figures mainly QC problems, not just the cowl?
That's true I guess, I remember people drawing circles and stuff over the TDKRs suit.
Fair enough, it can get out of hand.

I know Adam can capture an expression What I was getting at was that the one time he's given the opportunity to do an officially licensed one, he chooses not to. Granted, that could've also been a P1 requirement and he had no choice in the matter. I admit that I don't know that info.

Complaints on the original BB were both the cowl and the mouth areas. The TF EX version was the one with the QC issues and dry looking suit where as the BB suit that was released under the TDK banner stayed nice and semi-shiney.

At the end of the day we all see things differently, and as nuts as it can get, it's part of what makes this community...unique Everyone can say what they want within reason and express themselves. I like it as is and will be happy purchasing it. If others don't well that sucks for them and maybe in another few years there will be a 2.0 and it may be better. Sometimes all the complaints roll out a better product or at least we think it does and that's cool too. However it has backfired in the passed before anyway, I'm done with this conversation and will go back to enjoying the official pics

 

[batfan08]

I just want Molecule8 to get the TDK license, just for the novelty of the announcement. "Our first figure will be a 1/4 scale Joker. He'll come with 5 different expressive headsculpts by Adam Gu, each with rooted hair, four outfits: bank robber, regular, nurse, and honor guard by Kato, and a full size interrogation room. Pre-orders start in an hour, he'll begin shipping next week, and he'all retail for $5."

 

[Darkavatar]

I know Adam can capture an expression What I was getting at was that the one time he's given the opportunity to do an officially licensed one, he chooses not to. Granted, that could've also been a P1 requirement and he had no choice in the matter. I admit that I don't know that info.

No my point wasn't to educate you that Adam can sculpt Ledger Jokers with expression, I am just saying like you its a shame he didn't do it for Prime, granted that he only released that smiley sculpt this year, so that would explain why Prime's doesn't capture the character. Having said that, even Adam's older sculpts had more expression to them. It seems as time went on he choose to just do neutral expressions, because I think he was afraid of reducing the likeness of the actor. Not to mention people were already paying him thousands for his neutral expression sculpts, so he probably thought why bother trying to capture the Joker as well as Heath.

Complaints on the original BB were both the cowl and the mouth areas.

That's what I figured.

The TF EX version was the one with the QC issues and dry looking suit where as the BB suit that was released under the TDK banner stayed nice and semi-shiney.

ok

At the end of the day we all see things differently, and as nuts as it can get, it's part of what makes this community...unique Everyone can say what they want within reason and express themselves. I like it as is and will be happy purchasing it. If others don't well that sucks for them and maybe in another few years there will be a 2.0 and it may be better. Sometimes all the complaints roll out a better product or at least we think it does and that's cool too.

I am sure it must have some impact, Hot Toys could not be that ignorant.

However it has backfired in the passed before anyway, I'm done with this conversation and will go back to enjoying the official pics

I know you did you are done with this conversation but I am curious, when has it ever backfired?

 

[Stanlore]

This is my take on some of the most heated debates:

When someone says the EB or the Adam Gu's are better (usually people that already own one or the other), or that this HT version isn't very good, some are taking it too personally. Its very understandable. For some members, this is some serious coin for a collectible and people need to feel excited to drop it for a doll. The fact that people are saying its not very good or another company did it better (constructively or not) makes one feel like... "people think this is ****, so in turn, they are saying I like ****". "I'm convinced its excellent and it will even look BETTER when I have it in hand, and BTW the one you were praising is not that great either, this will be better (it has to be.. cause i'm buying it!) so in that case... screw you", and that's when misunderstandings come at hand.

At least this is the way I see it.

 

[Thrustmaster]

Well, I've tried to play with two of the images which HT have released to see where the likeness is lacking (left picture is the modified, right the original). In the first picture the hair is untouched, i've actually don't know where to start, especially at the top it's just a mess. There is such a bulk in there, that i don't know which image they've used to catch that look. he never had that much of hair. So what i've changed is the chin (little shorter on the front, and wider on the side), the cheeks (make the face fuller), eyebrows (changed the form) and the eyes (also here the form). what i don't like is, that the sculpt looks too thin somehow, you can see a difference also in the neck.

Same changes went also on the next picture. Changes have been made on the chin, cheeks, thicker neck, thicker face, eyes (look at the right eye to see the edited shape), eyebrows and slightly wider forehead, and the mouth as it has something which looks weird to me, and also the nose. Here i've changed also a bit of the hairline, but just to match the new headshape. The 'puffy' hair style is still there...

Hope you can see the changes I've made. Those areas needs to be improved, but yet again, it's just my opinion and taste.

 

[GaryPool]

I think you're on the right track with some of those changes, but it's starting to come across as a chubby Joker - at the moment his face definitely looks a bit too elongated. However I have no Joker from Heath Ledger, and I won't pass this one up, I can't afford a Gu sculpted one, and in my pinion that looks the closest and best - and all the other I don't like, this will be it for me!

Overtoys made a great effort on rooted hair, its disappointing that HT didn't give it a go given their financial backing

I just really think this Overtoys one looks bad.

 

[Vortex]

Very good Thrustmaster!

lips are still wrong on half and half sculpt tho i think.

 

[hexad_2808]

I just really think this Overtoys one looks bad.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

[Darkavatar]

This is my take on some of the most heated debates:

When someone says the EB or the Adam Gu's are better (usually people that already own one or the other), or that this HT version isn't very good, some are taking it too personally. Its very understandable. For some members, this is some serious coin for a collectible and people need to feel excited to drop it for a doll. The fact that people are saying its not very good or another company did it better (constructively or not) makes one feel like... "people think this is ****, so in turn, they are saying I like ****". "I'm convinced its excellent and it will even look BETTER when I have it in hand, and BTW the one you were praising is not that great either, this will be better (it has to be.. cause i'm buying it!) so in that case... screw you", and that's when misunderstandings come at hand.

At least this is the way I see it.

A lot of sense in what you are saying there.

Well, I've tried to play with two of the images which HT have released to see where the likeness is lacking (left picture is the modified, right the original). In the first picture the hair is untouched, i've actually don't know where to start, especially at the top it's just a mess. There is such a bulk in there, that i don't know which image they've used to catch that look. he never had that much of hair. So what i've changed is the chin (little shorter on the front, and wider on the side), the cheeks (make the face fuller), eyebrows (changed the form) and the eyes (also here the form). what i don't like is, that the sculpt looks too thin somehow, you can see a difference also in the neck.

Same changes went also on the next picture. Changes have been made on the chin, cheeks, thicker neck, thicker face, eyes (look at the right eye to see the edited shape), eyebrows and slightly wider forehead, and the mouth as it has something which looks weird to me. Here i've changed also a bit of the hairline, but just to match the new headshape. The 'puffy' hair style is still there...

Hope you can see the changes I've made. Those areas needs to be improved, but yet again, it's just my opinion and taste.

Good job at widening the face and reducing the chin, the likeness looks better, actually reminds me of Creg's version two Joker with a smaller nose.

 

[Thrustmaster]

Very good Thrustmaster!

lips are still wrong on half and half sculpt tho i think.

yeah thought about it aswell, and so i've changed it a bit again. Also edited the nose, which you can see now on the upgraded pic above

 

[ShiftyMoccasins93]

This thread makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills! I don't have such an eye for minute detail that some of you guys do, which is somewhat of a blessing I suppose. Personally when I look at this I think it looks great.

 

[ShadowGuardian]

The 1/4th scale The Joker Collectible Figure specially features:
-Newly developed head sculpt with authentic and detailed likeness of Heath Ledger as The Joker in The Dark Knight
-Movie-accurate facial expression with highly detailed make-up, wrinkles and skin texture
-Approximately 47 cm tall
-Over 35 points of articulation and*
-Upper body parts with human skin like texture
-Detailed hair sculpture
-Each piece of head sculpt is specially hand-painted
-Fifteen (15) pieces of interchangeable hands including:
•One (1) pair of relaxed hands
•One (1) pair of gesturing hands
•One (1) pair of gloved fists
•One (1) pair of gloved open hands
•One (1) pair of gloved gesturing hands
•One (1) gloved left hand for holding accessories
•One (1) gloved right hand for holding gun
•One (1) gloved right hand for holding Joker cards
•One (1) gloved right hand for holding weapons
•One (1) gloved gesturing right hand

Specially Tailor-made Costume:
-One (1) purple overcoat
-One (1) grey blazer
-One (1) green vest
-One (1) patterned shirt and tie
-One (1) pair of suspenders
-One (1) pair of dark purple pants with stripes
-One (1) pair of socks
-One (1) pair of brown chamois leather shoes*

Weapons:
-One (1) machine gun
-One (1) shotgun
-One (1) revolver
-One (1) pistol
-One (1) detonator
-Five (5) grenades (attachable to the purple overcoat)
-One (1) metal knife
-One (1) metal blade (attachable to the shoes)
-One (1) iron bar
-One (1) pencil

Accessories:
-One (1) clown mask
-Fifteen (15) black and white-colored Joker cards
-Fifteen (15) colored Joker cards
-One (1) gold colored pocket watch chain*
-Three (3) safety pins
-6 stacks of money
-Specially designed figure stand with The Joker nameplate, the movie logo*

Exclusive Bonus Accessory for Special Edition:*
-One (1) interchangeable head sculpts, featuring gradient dual-faced – original Heath Ledger face and the Joker face (This Special Edition is for selected markets only.)

Artists:*
- Head Sculpted by Yulli
- 3D Designed by Hyeon-Jung, Kim
- Body Sculpted by Ha-Young, Kang
- Head Painted by JC. Hong
- Head Art Directed by JC. Hong

Release date: approximately Q1 – Q2, 2018

**Prototype shown, final product may be slightly different
**Product details could be subjected to change without further notice

I'm liking that target release date. Hopefully they can meet that though I would rather wait longer if they go and improve it.

 

[Vortex]

yeah thought about it aswell, and so i've changed it a bit again. Also edited the nose, which you can see now on the upgraded pic above

I'd probably buy that.

No doubt about it if it were 1/6.

 

[sj2106]

The 1/4th scale The Joker Collectible Figure specially features:
-Newly developed head sculpt with authentic and detailed likeness of Heath Ledger as The Joker in The Dark Knight
-Movie-accurate facial expression with highly detailed make-up, wrinkles and skin texture
-Approximately 47 cm tall
-Over 35 points of articulation and*
-Upper body parts with human skin like texture
-Detailed hair sculpture
-Each piece of head sculpt is specially hand-painted
-Fifteen (15) pieces of interchangeable hands including:
•One (1) pair of relaxed hands
•One (1) pair of gesturing hands
•One (1) pair of gloved fists
•One (1) pair of gloved open hands
•One (1) pair of gloved gesturing hands
•One (1) gloved left hand for holding accessories
•One (1) gloved right hand for holding gun
•One (1) gloved right hand for holding Joker cards
•One (1) gloved right hand for holding weapons
•One (1) gloved gesturing right hand

Specially Tailor-made Costume:
-One (1) purple overcoat
-One (1) grey blazer
-One (1) green vest
-One (1) patterned shirt and tie
-One (1) pair of suspenders
-One (1) pair of dark purple pants with stripes
-One (1) pair of socks
-One (1) pair of brown chamois leather shoes*

Weapons:
-One (1) machine gun
-One (1) shotgun
-One (1) revolver
-One (1) pistol
-One (1) detonator
-Five (5) grenades (attachable to the purple overcoat)
-One (1) metal knife
-One (1) metal blade (attachable to the shoes)
-One (1) iron bar
-One (1) pencil

Accessories:
-One (1) clown mask
-Fifteen (15) black and white-colored Joker cards
-Fifteen (15) colored Joker cards
-One (1) gold colored pocket watch chain*
-Three (3) safety pins
-6 stacks of money
-Specially designed figure stand with The Joker nameplate, the movie logo*

Exclusive Bonus Accessory for Special Edition:*
-One (1) interchangeable head sculpts, featuring gradient dual-faced – original Heath Ledger face and the Joker face (This Special Edition is for selected markets only.)

Artists:*
- Head Sculpted by Yulli
- 3D Designed by Hyeon-Jung, Kim
- Body Sculpted by Ha-Young, Kang
- Head Painted by JC. Hong
- Head Art Directed by JC. Hong

Release date: approximately Q1 – Q2, 2018

**Prototype shown, final product may be slightly different
**Product details could be subjected to change without further notice

I'm liking that target release date. Hopefully they can meet that though I would rather wait longer if they go and improve it.

Has it gone up for pre-order now?

That release date is way earlier than I imagined. Was expected late 2018 at the earliest.