1/6 Hot Toys - MMS 279 - Star Wars Episode IV: 1/6th scale Darth Vader

[TaliBane]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

Interesting...the darth madden vader helmet is clearly from the medicom vinyl collectible sculpt....

There are sculpts that are fairly distinct...the artfx vader (the one people complained about him in a potty stance) actually has a pretty good helmet sculpt, but because it is more of a model than a figure, no one notices how good it is...we've come to expect statues or model kits to look good, but we are forever skeptical about the "toys"

The lines are getting blurred now, and I for one am hopeful that as long as it is an improvement over the sideshow, I'll be satisfied as long as they don't screw up new obvious things...

I don't mind a symmetrical helmet as long as it is in favor of more ot angles ( like koto, marmit or even the kaiyodo 1/6 model which the Revoltech is based upon)

For me the helmet is most important since I've seen other products that look quite decent.....

and yes that includes the jakks pacific 31" figure...the dome stripe is a little thick but the overall shape is vaderesque ( this is from digital models I believe also used for the face on the Disney figure and the Star Wars weekends popcorn bucket) minor shapes are loft like the bridge of the nose, minor slices are simplified between facets on the mask, simplified, but the overall look is right....

With vader, there are cheats in order for the helmet to sit as screen accurate on the shoulders, if it includes the neck brace, because it is typically without the rear neck brace...it sits lower, making the domes flare look longer than it is. The neck brace literally lifts the whole helmet on top of the shoulders making the dome appear shorter. Correctly sculpted or not people will find fault in the helmet or it's position.

The cinemaquette vader helmet is a scan from an official helmet from the archive...
It even has the right warbles and idiosyncrasies as the screen used masks...
the dome sits just a little higher due to the sculpted cinemaquette connection,
but it is because of the neck brace that the helmet sits higher overall making the dome appear even shorter.

If they (Disney? LFL?) have a digital scan of the prop Vader helmet, shouldn't every company's Vader be exact?

 

[SwedishHeat]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

If they (Disney? LFL?) have a digital scan of the prop Vader helmet, shouldn't every company's Vader be exact?

If LFL couldn't re-create Vader perfectly each time, how do you expect manufacturers to do it?

Gentle Giant digital scans people all the time, and their stuff looks like ass. "Digital" isn't 100% accurate.

Realistically, there is always going to be distortion when you make molds and cast things.

 

[demorathis]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

If they (Disney? LFL?) have a digital scan of the prop Vader helmet, shouldn't every company's Vader be exact?

I guess it depends on the company...some have access to original molds like eFx, but they make props that need a certain amount of provenance.

Anovos used a fan molded helmet from another helmet....

Sideshow likes to sculpt everything as an artistic interpretation.

Hasbro, for what appears to be a first, has a Sith style vader with a screen accurate helmet from a possible scan.

Jakks just needs to look just enough like vader and since Disney has a certain quality control over products, I've noticed numerous products using this particular scan....or model. Actually it's similar to one particular rubies facemask....a cheap one, but I nice one.


Still, other companies want to tackle the likenesses and have more precision over accuracy...like the ss 1:1 bust...precise details, but far from accurate, though the facemask looks generations off.....

 

[demorathis]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

If LFL couldn't re-create Vader perfectly each time, how do you expect manufacturers to do it?

Gentle Giant digital scans people all the time, and their stuff looks like ass. "Digital" isn't 100% accurate.

Realistically, there is always going to be distortion when you make molds and cast things.

True...a lot of times, it's the way the scans are " cleaned up". Gentle giant can scan very accurately...they do it for movies all the time with great accuracy...but the creative groups in charge of the production each have their two cents and thus push and pull on designs, no matter how initially faithful the scanned info...look what happened to the subsequent stormtrooper statues from gg....

And almost all vader busts from gg are off especially the episode 3 Sith helmet....there's a candy toy bust that's far more episode 3 looking than any gg bust I own...I'm a vader fanatic so I'm always awaiting a great vader sculpt....if it's got provenance to originals I'm good , or a great interpretive sculpt, I'm as happy....as long as it's not "uneducated" or careless In its approach to recreate vader....madeup details irritate me when there's so much info. Especially with the new to costumes book that just came out.......

(Re made up details....I don't mind if it's intentional or supposed to be an original version-- like the concept figures )

 

[TaliBane]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

Yeah, you'd think with today's 3D scan and print technologies (and the engineering tolerances that go along with them,) it would be possible to scan an object like a Vader helmet and print out a perfect 1/6 version. You wonder what use these technologies really are (for manufacturing, engineering etc.) if they are that inaccurate.

The GG human scans you can understand being off - an actor's face could be quite different to how they appeared in a movie (weight gain/loss, bad night's sleep etc.) and there are all kinds of variables, but a hard object like Vader's helmet?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

I know the reason why they alter the Vader face mask. Anyone who has sold an accurate full scale Vader helmet knows this. It's the complaints from all those who really don't know how the prop actually looks and thinks the cast is warped or damaged.

I did this for a symmetry study where I showed how the RotS should have been made symmetrical instead of just taking one side or sections of one side and mirror it to the other side. The only way to do it is mirror the whole helmet, put it on top of the normal helmet and let the computer figure out the averaged symmetry between the two. As you can see, the picture on the left is how we see the prop, the middle picture is how we see the helmet in the mirror, which SHOCKS people who don't know that that is how it should actually look, and the right is the symmetrical version I created from the two in photoshop. Not perfect, but you get the idea.

And compared to the RotS, you can see how different the symmetrical helmet could have looked and still retained the basic Vader helmet idiosyncrasies, compared to that strange creation they ended up with.

 

[anwe]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

This is probably one of the best attitudes to adopt regarding these toys, yes I say toys. In the end they will always look like a 12" figure, no matter how good. There will always be things they miss or don't get right. And I am super picky, that is why I usually stick with 1:1 stuff. 1:6 and 1:4 just cant capture the same nuances as 1:1. The irony in my collection is although I am privileged to be in the know regarding Disney/HT/SW I don't own any 1:6 figures. I have seen pics of the upcoming HT Vader figure from different angles and I will tell you right now...it is not perfect, its damn close and a whole lot better than what has been offered thus far. But in the end it is a 1:6 toy and it looks like it and will never look like a 1:1.

That sound just perfect to me. And since a few months back every word from you is to be taken as gospel as far as I'm concerned.

I do think that it's very possible for a 12" figure too look like there is a tiny person running around there. I see pictures on this forum every day of figures some very modded and futzed and some not that if the figure had som sort of environment around it it would look exactly like a picture from the movie.

I'm probably one of the bigger whiners on every figure here, but I really don't think I have exceptionally unfair demands on these figures. For example the big glaring faults with the SSC Vaders are too many and obvious to not think about every time you see the figure. Another is the Sideshow stormies that are superior in every way technically to the Marmits except that it really doesn't look like the stormtroopers from the movie. The Marmits do, and even though they are soft and the included body isn't that good for posing even compared to the Sideshow body, if you put it up in a pose it looks like it could very well be an extra from the film. Change the body and cut out the feet and it's even more apparent. The Marmit Vader isn't perfect either but if I could get one of those I probably wouldn't need another Vader after that.

The Tamashii C-3PO is another good example. It's so good I don't feel the need to look for another. I wasn't interested in the droids before it came out. People have complained about it all along but none seemed to give concrete examples of what was wrong with it. Now there are actually a few comparisons in the SSC 3PO thread and I see the faults as well now didn't before. But still happy enough with it as it too can be posed and look like a spitting image of a scene from the movie. At least to me it can.

 

[Prime Clone]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

Gentle Giant digital scans people all the time, and their stuff looks like ass. "Digital" isn't 100% accurate.

Often it's just down to the paintjob ...

 

[ZE_501]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

[...] compared to the RotS, you can see how different the symmetrical helmet could have looked and still retained the basic Vader helmet idiosyncrasies, compared to that strange creation they ended up with.

Thanks for posting this; really interesting stuff! And you're right...the difference is obvious.

 

[demorathis]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

I know the reason why they alter the Vader face mask. Anyone who has sold an accurate full scale Vader helmet knows this. It's the complaints from all those who really don't know how the prop actually looks and thinks the cast is warped or damaged.

I did this for a symmetry study where I showed how the RotS should have been made symmetrical instead of just taking one side or sections of one side and mirror it to the other side. The only way to do it is mirror the whole helmet, put it on top of the normal helmet and let the computer figure out the averaged symmetry between the two. As you can see, the picture on the left is how we see the prop, the middle picture is how we see the helmet in the mirror, which SHOCKS people who don't know that that is how it should actually look, and the right is the symmetrical version I created from the two in photoshop. Not perfect, but you get the idea.

And compared to the RotS, you can see how different the symmetrical helmet could have looked and still retained the basic Vader helmet idiosyncrasies, compared to that strange creation they ended up with.

You hit the nail on the head.

I highly agree that this is how it could have been made to look "machined" and perfect! By averaging the sides, this is how we actually mentally process vader....to choose one side over another and simply mirror only forces us to see vader, well, in the mirror, which we are not used to, so it's almost as if the Sith vader is from the bizarro universe....Bizarro Vader....

I wonder if it ever crossed their minds in 2004, considering they did output a side from a c&c machine....they could've easily done it


Although, I just realized that they also had a smaller face compared to the dome, as Hayden is a smaller guy than Dave, and the proportions are actually different from mask to dome as well....

 

[Smudger9]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

We seriously need to see some pictures of this. Since the tease we've had the shadow stormie and ¼ Boba reveals with multiple pictures. Get on with it HT!!!!

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

I know the reason why they alter the Vader face mask. Anyone who has sold an accurate full scale Vader helmet knows this. It's the complaints from all those who really don't know how the prop actually looks and thinks the cast is warped or damaged.

I did this for a symmetry study where I showed how the RotS should have been made symmetrical instead of just taking one side or sections of one side and mirror it to the other side. The only way to do it is mirror the whole helmet, put it on top of the normal helmet and let the computer figure out the averaged symmetry between the two. As you can see, the picture on the left is how we see the prop, the middle picture is how we see the helmet in the mirror, which SHOCKS people who don't know that that is how it should actually look, and the right is the symmetrical version I created from the two in photoshop. Not perfect, but you get the idea.

And compared to the RotS, you can see how different the symmetrical helmet could have looked and still retained the basic Vader helmet idiosyncrasies, compared to that strange creation they ended up with.

Thanks for posting! Yea, the original prop is all sorts of messed up, isn't it? But you don't really notice it until you really focus on it and look at it straight on. And most of the time you're seeing a moving figure and can't really scrutinize the helmet as well as you can like here.

As far as the new ROTS helmet, the actual face doesn't seem so bad. I think the biggest offender is the oversized helmet with very softened features and that terrible neck! It really throws the entire thing off!

 

[demorathis]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

Thanks for posting! Yea, the original prop is all sorts of messed up, isn't it? But you don't really notice it until you really focus on it and look at it straight on. And most of the time you're seeing a moving figure and can't really scrutinize the helmet as well as you can like here.

As far as the new ROTS helmet, the actual face doesn't seem so bad. I think the biggest offender is the oversized helmet with very softened features and that terrible neck! It really throws the entire thing off!

When the dome is sitting correctly, and the neck is plugged in as onscreen, it looks great from the front...
The smaller nose seems less of a cute button type nose, the flat lenses reminiscent of aviator glasses makes him less humanized and serious as a motorcycle cop, and the softer lines on the domes crown only emphasizes the vertical stripe....it's all business , effective, but not reminiscent of the character face we've become familiar with....like taking one side of Harrison fords face and mirroring it!!

I'd like to see how weird that'd be! Like Sith version Han......
Or taking the average of both sides!

 

[abake]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

I don't really dislike the ROTS Vader.
It's different, more machine-like in its symmetry, and works well as a fresh off the press incarnation. Who knows how much battle damage Vader went through in all the years between order 66 and the Battle of Yavin. Makes perfect sense that his entire outfit would take a beating.

 

[Darthrazz]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

I always wondered if the Darth Vader suit was the galaxies standard life support suit that may patients had, or solely made just for him.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

I always wondered if the Darth Vader suit was the galaxies standard life support suit that may patients had, or solely made just for him.

Really?

You know its Sith style.

 

[dartball]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

ROTS Vader is my favourite Vader look.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

ROTS Vader is my favourite Vader look.

Ah ha! So you're who they made it for!

 

[YankeesFanboy]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

This and Boba PO going up around Christmas, huh?

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Hot Toys Darth Vader Sixth Scale Figure

So instead of Vader reveal, we got Shadowtrooper and BF tease so far.