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Great post - and spot on for me....

Stark has been portrayed very clearly as 'anit-establishment' from his first movie, yet in CW he tows the line without question.
Also, he's trying to reign Cap in because they cause too much damage - yet doesn't shy away from blowing the **** out of an international airport!
War Machine is useless... really, Rhodey would have had the armour taken off him and given to someone who could use it... there is zero need for him in the MCU.
Spiderman, while I liked how they played him very much - you're right he was shoe-horned in, and I found the fact that Tony Stark just so happened to know who he was, despite the fact he's never been mentioned in any MCU movie so far... yet people say that Lex knowing Superman's identity was terrible?!?
Also, the CGI of Spidey was truly awful - it's like they took the 80's animated series and spliced it into the movie.
Vision, again you are right - in AoU during the end fight he clearly showed that he was so powerful it rendered the rest of the Avengers pointless... but that is a MCU trait - the power of their heroes fluctuates - non moreso than Cap himself. He's gone toe-to-toe with Iron Man, Thor and Spiderman, in AoU physically threw a Motorbike and rider with ease - yet his fight with Strucker (who had no seeming powers) was an even contest!
Panther was a disappointment for me too... he's superbly fast and agile yet he was so slow to try and save his father (the scene chasing Bucky through the cars was poor... their feet were not moving at the speed they were. It was like the scene of a young Clark running throught the corn-field in Donner's Superman).
Ant-Man, again only added to show he can go giant... yet that made no sense either - his powers make no sense.
The only reason Thor and Hulk weren't in it is because the writers didn't know what to do with them.

Like i've said previously I acutally did enjoy the film, but in the sake of fairness the same level of critique needs to be aimed at this movie... and when it is, it doesn't stand up to the scrutiny.

P.S. Almost forgot - the Super Prision in the sea... Why??? The MCU hasn't produced a decent villain yet, who do they put in it?

Lmao.....wow. I'm sorry, but if you can't understand that the Stark from IM2 who gave his testimony to the U.S. security council and the Stark at the beginning of this movie are in completely different places mentally, then I don't know how much clearer it can be made. "Fairness" doesn't excuse a lack of knowledge in source material. Captain America never went "toe-to-toe" with Thor in the movie, he simply blocked Mjolnir with his shield, which he has done numerous times in the comic. Cap beat Iron Man in the Civil War comic in pretty much the same exact fashion at the end of the film. Cap has also gone "toe to toe" with Spiderman. Smdh. I also don't know what movie you watched where Cap was in an "even contest" with this guy:

View attachment 265285

I happen to remember the encounter was short and sweet.
 
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Lmao.....wow. I'm sorry, but if you can't understand that the Stark from IM2 who gave his testimony to the U.S. security council and the Stark at the beginning of this movie are in completely different places mentally, then I don't know how much clearer it can be made. "Fairness" doesn't excuse a lack of knowledge in source material. Captain America never went "toe-to-toe" with Thor in the movie, he simply blocked Mjolnir with his shield, which he has done numerous times in the comic. Cap beat Iron Man in the Civil War comic in pretty much the same exact fashion at the end of the film. Cap has also gone "toe to toe" with Spiderman. Smdh. I also don't know what movie you watched where Cap was in an "even contest" with this guy:

View attachment 265285

I happen to remember the encounter was short and sweet.

Cap and Strucker had a fight - if it were not maybe it wasn't exactly 'even', but judging by the strength levels Cap shows in other movies - one punch, one kick - the fight would be over. I didn't even bring up how ridiculous they've made his shield - is it sentient now? It returns to his arm when he holds it out?
Spidey saying "the shield doesn't obey the laws of physics" - sorry but that's lazy writing to try and pass off something so ridiculous as a joke.

As for Stark - I am supposed to assume that Stark's 'head' is in a different place? - Oh, sorry how do I assume that? What as made him change?
Is this the same Tony Stark who in CW says the Avenger's should be accountable for their actions, then to capture/stop Captain America doesn't think twice about blowing **** out of a major international airport..? Where was his head then? Car parks blown up, planes destroyed, fuel trucks etc. etc. –*not to mention the oh-so-convenient deserted terminus building... in a major airport??? So I had to assume his head was in a different place for CW... strange because BvS is criticised for having to assume things (that are actually explained).
 
Lmao.....wow. I'm sorry, but if you can't understand that the Stark from IM2 who gave his testimony to the U.S. security council and the Stark at the beginning of this movie are in completely different places mentally, then I don't know how much clearer it can be made. "Fairness" doesn't excuse a lack of knowledge in source material. Captain America never went "toe-to-toe" with Thor in the movie, he simply blocked Mjolnir with his shield, which he has done numerous times in the comic. Cap beat Iron Man in the Civil War comic in pretty much the same exact fashion at the end of the film. Cap has also gone "toe to toe" with Spiderman. Smdh. I also don't know what movie you watched where Cap was in an "even contest" with this guy:

View attachment 265285

I happen to remember the encounter was short and sweet.

I wouldn't waste your time trying to explain. Most of these comments are laughable.
 
Great post - and spot on for me....

Stark has been portrayed very clearly as 'anit-establishment' from his first movie, yet in CW he tows the line without question.
Also, he's trying to reign Cap in because they cause too much damage - yet doesn't shy away from blowing the **** out of an international airport!
War Machine is useless... really, Rhodey would have had the armour taken off him and given to someone who could use it... there is zero need for him in the MCU.
Spiderman, while I liked how they played him very much - you're right he was shoe-horned in, and I found the fact that Tony Stark just so happened to know who he was, despite the fact he's never been mentioned in any MCU movie so far... yet people say that Lex knowing Superman's identity was terrible?!?
Also, the CGI of Spidey was truly awful - it's like they took the 80's animated series and spliced it into the movie.
Vision, again you are right - in AoU during the end fight he clearly showed that he was so powerful it rendered the rest of the Avengers pointless... but that is a MCU trait - the power of their heroes fluctuates - non moreso than Cap himself. He's gone toe-to-toe with Iron Man, Thor and Spiderman, in AoU physically threw a Motorbike and rider with ease - yet his fight with Strucker (who had no seeming powers) was an even contest!
Panther was a disappointment for me too... he's superbly fast and agile yet he was so slow to try and save his father (the scene chasing Bucky through the cars was poor... their feet were not moving at the speed they were. It was like the scene of a young Clark running throught the corn-field in Donner's Superman).
Ant-Man, again only added to show he can go giant... yet that made no sense either - his powers make no sense.
The only reason Thor and Hulk weren't in it is because the writers didn't know what to do with them.

Like i've said previously I acutally did enjoy the film, but in the sake of fairness the same level of critique needs to be aimed at this movie... and when it is, it doesn't stand up to the scrutiny.

P.S. Almost forgot - the Super Prision in the sea... Why??? The MCU hasn't produced a decent villain yet, who do they put in it?

Let's see...

1. Stark "tows the line" because he's guilt-ridden about the damage done by Ultron. Also Stark knows that the government is going to force oversight on the Avengers one way or another so Stark decides it's better to acquiesce now and get a good deal. All of this was mentioned in the movie. You didn't even need to see Age of Ultron to get this.

2. It was an empty international airport. And they destroyed a plane and part of a hangar. They didn't knock down skyscrapers full of people and wreck half a city. Also Iron Man had no choice in damaging the airport because he was there to capture Cap and his people and Cap wasn't going to surrender. Come on. This criticism was silly.

3. The problem with Rhodey in the airport fight is that his weapons are all lethal--bullets and shells--and none of the combatants wanted to kill each other. So it's hard to get Rhodey fully into the action. The War Machine suit could use some non-lethal repulsors like Iron Man has.

4. Tony could have found out about Spider-Man by setting up surveillance in New York after the news reported his existence. Remember that Tony could hack any government computer network--any public surveillance equipment (like traffic light cameras for instance) could serve as Tony's eyes and ears. Not to mention satellites. He could have repurposed a satellite to keep its eye on New York, then had his computer watch it for sightings of Spider-Man and triangulate until they found him in Queens, narrow the search from there, and eventually, they would have video of Peter climbing through his bedroom window in his Spider-Man suit. I for one didn't think it was silly that Luthor knew who Superman was. I've always thought it was silly that more people don't know who he is considering his disguise is--*snort*--a pair of glasses. ("But wait! He constantly vibrates his head when he's in his Superman costume so no one ever really sees his face!" LOL.)

5. I thought Spidey looked great. Very John Romita.

6. Where to begin? Cap has never gone toe-to-toe with Thor. He blocked Thor's hammer the first time they met. That's it. Vision is hugely powerful but Scarlet Witch showed she can take control of his mind gem whenever she wants and incapacitate him. How was Cap versus Strucker a "contest?" Cap took him down with a single kick!

7. You're one of a vanishingly small group of people who didn't find the Panther/Cap/Bucky chase scene with the cars absolutely thrilling, and I'd bet that all of those people are angry Batman versus Superman fans.

8. Ant-man was added to give an outsider's perspective on the conflict, to add some fun, and how do you not understand his powers? He can change size. That's it. He can get small or he can get big. Do you need someone to explain the scientific theory behind it? If so, tell them to explain how Superman can fly. If it's because Earth's gravity is lighter, why isn't he floating all the time like an astronaut on the moon? Also, how does he manage to actually accelerate while he's flying? His powers make no sense either, in much more significant ways.

9. Thor and Hulk are not on the planet currently; they're in space dealing with Ragnarok.

10. You think Civil War doesn't stand up to scrutiny--compared to Batman versus Superman? LOL. If this was a drinking game where every time you said something silly I'd have to drink, I'd be seriously drunk by now.

11. The super-prison in the sea was designed to hold anyone who doesn't comply with the Sokovia Accords. it held Hawkeye, Ant-Man, Falcon and Scarlet Witch by the end. I'm assuming Emil Blonsky (Abomination) will go in there eventually. And do you really want to criticize Marvel's villains when Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor was so howlingly awful in Batman versus Superman?
 
Let's see...

1. Stark "tows the line" because he's guilt-ridden about the damage done by Ultron. Also Stark knows that the government is going to force oversight on the Avengers one way or another so Stark decides it's better to acquiesce now and get a good deal. All of this was mentioned in the movie. You didn't even need to see Age of Ultron to get this.

2. It was an empty international airport. And they destroyed a plane and part of a hangar. They didn't knock down skyscrapers full of people and wreck half a city. Also Iron Man had no choice in damaging the airport because he was there to capture Cap and his people and Cap wasn't going to surrender. Come on. This criticism was silly.

3. The problem with Rhodey in the airport fight is that his weapons are all lethal--bullets and shells--and none of the combatants wanted to kill each other. So it's hard to get Rhodey fully into the action. The War Machine suit could use some non-lethal repulsors like Iron Man has.

4. Tony could have found out about Spider-Man by setting up surveillance in New York after the news reported his existence. Remember that Tony could hack any government computer network--any public surveillance equipment (like traffic light cameras for instance) could serve as Tony's eyes and ears. Not to mention satellites. He could have repurposed a satellite to keep its eye on New York, then had his computer watch it for sightings of Spider-Man and triangulate until they found him in Queens, narrow the search from there, and eventually, they would have video of Peter climbing through his bedroom window in his Spider-Man suit. I for one didn't think it was silly that Luthor knew who Superman was. I've always thought it was silly that more people don't know who he is considering his disguise is--*snort*--a pair of glasses. ("But wait! He constantly vibrates his head when he's in his Superman costume so no one ever really sees his face!" LOL.)

5. I thought Spidey looked great. Very John Romita.

6. Where to begin? Cap has never gone toe-to-toe with Thor. He blocked Thor's hammer the first time they met. That's it. Vision is hugely powerful but Scarlet Witch showed she can take control of his mind gem whenever she wants and incapacitate him. How was Cap versus Strucker a "contest?" Cap took him down with a single kick!

7. You're one of a vanishingly small group of people who didn't find the Panther/Cap/Bucky chase scene with the cars absolutely thrilling, and I'd bet that all of those people are angry Batman versus Superman fans.

8. Ant-man was added to give an outsider's perspective on the conflict, to add some fun, and how do you not understand his powers? He can change size. That's it. He can get small or he can get big. Do you need someone to explain the scientific theory behind it? If so, tell them to explain how Superman can fly. If it's because Earth's gravity is lighter, why isn't he floating all the time like an astronaut on the moon? Also, how does he manage to actually accelerate while he's flying? His powers make no sense either, in much more significant ways.

9. Thor and Hulk are not on the planet currently; they're in space dealing with Ragnarok.

10. You think Civil War doesn't stand up to scrutiny--compared to Batman versus Superman? LOL. If this was a drinking game where every time you said something silly I'd have to drink, I'd be seriously drunk by now.

11. The super-prison in the sea was designed to hold anyone who doesn't comply with the Sokovia Accords. it held Hawkeye, Ant-Man, Falcon and Scarlet Witch by the end. I'm assuming Emil Blonsky (Abomination) will go in there eventually. And do you really want to criticize Marvel's villains when Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor was so howlingly awful in Batman versus Superman?

Great post - and good to see somebody articulately address the points. (i'm looking at you Starscream)
Like I have said many times I enjoyed the movie - I really did. But it does not excuse the fact that BvS is subjected to scrutiny that CW isn't –*you have answered all the points –*I don't agree with all of them, and some are just making excuses for the faults, but some points I can see your point. However the points raised about BvS have been as comprehensively answered as yours.
For example BvS has been slated for Lex knowing Superman's identity – yet you make an excuse for Stark knowing Spiderman - and for however good he was in the movie, it did feel like he was added at a later date, and offered nothing to the movie except to advertise a future movie. And also didn't say Spidey was bad, just the CGI.
And the Cap/Bucky/Panther chase - didn't say I didn't enjoy it, but the SFX were poorly executed for the running... watch again and you'll see what I mean
As for drinking game? Don't sink to that level pal - you spoiled your whole post with that remark. I can get even more picky - there are far more problems, I just picked a few that sprung to mind.


Oh and the Ant-Man point –*Hank Pym specifically states in the Ant-Man movie that the suit works by shrinking the space between atoms –*therefore for example if an item is made up for four atoms, the smallest it could go is the size of those 4 atoms combined. That means that it is impossible for his suit to make him sub-atomic, that isn't possible.
He is also told that when small his strength would remain the same as at normal size... therefore why is the opposite any different? To grow surely the technology adds space between the atoms - but by the same laws as shrinking, he should not be made stronger.
 
Cap and Strucker had a fight - if it were not maybe it wasn't exactly 'even', but judging by the strength levels Cap shows in other movies - one punch, one kick - the fight would be over. I didn't even bring up how ridiculous they've made his shield - is it sentient now? It returns to his arm when he holds it out?
Spidey saying "the shield doesn't obey the laws of physics" - sorry but that's lazy writing to try and pass off something so ridiculous as a joke.

As for Stark - I am supposed to assume that Stark's 'head' is in a different place? - Oh, sorry how do I assume that? What as made him change?
Is this the same Tony Stark who in CW says the Avenger's should be accountable for their actions, then to capture/stop Captain America doesn't think twice about blowing **** out of a major international airport..? Where was his head then? Car parks blown up, planes destroyed, fuel trucks etc. etc. –*not to mention the oh-so-convenient deserted terminus building... in a major airport??? So I had to assume his head was in a different place for CW... strange because BvS is criticised for having to assume things (that are actually explained).
Hey Dario, I see where you are coming from on some of these things. This is what I thought when I watched Civil War: Stark was just trying to subdue Strucker, not go toe to toe with him. It's the only reason I'm ok with Superman not destroying Batman at the very beginning of their fight. He was trying to subdue, not beat the crap out of him. I will agree that all of these movies play fast and loose with the power levels though. Caps shield has a magnetic devise on his suits arm that it returns to now. I think they show it a few times.
For me, it's not hard to accept Caps crazy Shield throwing when I can accept men that can fly and lift cars over their heads along with sticking to walls or growing to 5 times their size and mass and ropes that make people tell the truth.
I think Stark changed his views because he had footage of of all of the damage he helped cause over the years shoved in his face along with people confronting him personally for the deaths of their loved one's. That would shake me up. I thought he airport was already mostly evacuated because they already knew something was going to happen when they tried to apprehend Bucky. I might be wrong. But I don't feel stuff like this is really why BvS is being criticized so much. Fair or unfair, it's because they made some major changes to what some fans see as core traits of these characters. Batman kills and is overly brutal(although that didn't bug me like it did other people, he's always been dark). Wonder Woman is cold towards humanity and has turned her back on them. Superman is unsure, dour and borderline depressed and kills as well (that was the toughest thing for me to reconcile as a fan). Lex is a nervous, twitchy, paranoid trust fund kid who has no other grand plans other than hating heroes. And these might all actually be more realistic versions of these characters but they are big changes and for some, it turned their heroes into characters they don't like. Just for me personally, I read Batman and Superman to get a break from all the crappy stuff going on in the real world. It's people with impossible powers making things better. However, I get that some fans out there might want this new gritty, real world version. They like darker stuff, and that's just a difference in what you want out of entertainment. God lord, sorry for the novel. BTW, I'm still hyped for the new Batfleck figure. Out of everything in this movie, he made the most sense to me.
 
11. The super-prison in the sea was designed to hold anyone who doesn't comply with the Sokovia Accords. it held Hawkeye, Ant-Man, Falcon and Scarlet Witch by the end. I'm assuming Emil Blonsky (Abomination) will go in there eventually. And do you really want to criticize Marvel's villains when Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor was so howlingly awful in Batman versus Superman?

Lex Luthor actually successfully carried out his plan and got Superman killed, as well as killing an entire courtroom full of people... plus he's not superpowered.
Zod and his crew started to terra-form the planet, killing thousands. The villains from Suicide Squad are responsible for god knows how much death and destruction so far... Joker is most certainly responsible for a lot, and Croc's a bloody cannibal!!!
Blonsky, for all his strength/power didn't actually do that much in a film that is the b*****d forgotten child of the MCU. Add to that it's already been shown that Ross couldn't contain Hulk, so why would Abomination be different?

So in all the prison is built to house the Avengers - IF they should go rogue - that's what you're saying?
Hawkeye and BW have shown to be resourceful, but do Ant-Man and Falcon really justify being put in that prison? Ant-Man has already shown that without his suit/tech will not escape prison, and without his wings why is Falcon a high risk prisoner... they have no powers.
 
Hey Dario, I see where you are coming from on some of these things. This is what I thought when I watched Civil War: Stark was just trying to subdue Strucker, not go toe to toe with him. It's the only reason I'm ok with Superman not destroying Batman at the very beginning of their fight. He was trying to subdue, not beat the crap out of him. I will agree that all of these movies play fast and loose with the power levels though. Caps shield has a magnetic devise on his suits arm that it returns to now. I think they show it a few times.
For me, it's not hard to accept Caps crazy Shield throwing when I can accept men that can fly and lift cars over their heads along with sticking to walls or growing to 5 times their size and mass and ropes that make people tell the truth.
I think Stark changed his views because he had footage of of all of the damage he helped cause over the years shoved in his face along with people confronting him personally for the deaths of their loved one's. That would shake me up. I thought he airport was already mostly evacuated because they already knew something was going to happen when they tried to apprehend Bucky. I might be wrong. But I don't feel stuff like this is really why BvS is being criticized so much. Fair or unfair, it's because they made some major changes to what some fans see as core traits of these characters. Batman kills and is overly brutal(although that didn't bug me like it did other people, he's always been dark). Wonder Woman is cold towards humanity and has turned her back on them. Superman is unsure, dour and borderline depressed and kills as well (that was the toughest thing for me to reconcile as a fan). Lex is a nervous, twitchy, paranoid trust fund kid who has no other grand plans other than hating heroes. And these might all actually be more realistic versions of these characters but they are big changes and for some, it turned their heroes into characters they don't like. Just for me personally, I read Batman and Superman to get a break from all the crappy stuff going on in the real world. It's people with impossible powers making things better. However, I get that some fans out there might want this new gritty, real world version. They like darker stuff, and that's just a difference in what you want out of entertainment. God lord, sorry for the novel. BTW, I'm still hyped for the new Batfleck figure. Out of everything in this movie, he made the most sense to me.

Nice to see a civil reply :goodpost:

To be honest, that's probably the best post about BvS i've read, and I can see where you're coming from even if I don't agree.
 
After pages and pages of the same ***** over and over, all I have to say is:
Shatner.jpg
 
...
I read the post again, and nowhere in it does it single you or anyone else out directly.
...

Yes it does, in context as an answer to Sevreed who mentions me by name it cannot be anyone else and you know it.
I'm satisfied I've shown you for the hypocrite you are.
 
Good lord. Walls and walls of irrelevant, pointless discussions.

Yes, back on point to the figure.

So, anything new to report regarding it?

How does a discussion about a toy devolve into this?!

View attachment 265339

:lol

This is what usually happens when you get a room full of superhero fans who share differing opinions. Each one thinks they are "right".

Like Stuart on The Big Bang Theory once said: "You can't ask a question like that in here what are you trying to start a rumble!?" :lol

Or, to put it succinctly:

aDmW0WB_700b.jpg
 
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