1/6 Hot Toys - BvS: Dawn of Justice - Batman

[dario2739]

No film is flawless, true. But some are more flawed than others, and BvS is right up there. You can like a film in spite of it's flaws, but yeah... It still has flaws.

I'm not saying at all that the only reason people who didn't like BvS didn't understand it... i've seen plenty of reasoned arguments from people who didn't like it... but the comment I replied to, clearly hadn't understood, and unfortunately most posts that dislike the movie are from people misunderstanding the simplest things – and trashing it for 'flaws' that certain other franchise get away with.

No film is, or ever will be, perfect – maybe it's my tastes in movies, I loved MoS and Watchmen (Rorschach for me personally is the best comic page to screen transition so far... though WW and Batfleck come verrrry close). Maybe it's that I like that the DCEU is different to the MCU, and gives a more realistic approach... or maybe it's just the DC fan in me... I'm emotionally attached to those characters - I grew up with them. BvS held more emotion for me than any CBM i've ever seen.

I also think that, even if you didn't like the movie, you'd have to agree that some of the scenes are spectacular... I also think that Batman fighting the Mercs in the warehouse is the best fight/action scene in CBMs to date... it's just brutal and unlike the choreographed martial arts fare we're used to being dished up... though the Daredevil corridor fight is a verrry close second.
Also loved the opening scene – Bruce driving through the streets, the Kryptonian ship crashing, the fight between Supes and Zod, the heat vision ripping through the building, Bruce's reaction... perfect.

 

[dario2739]

Every film is flawed. Those that love this film, such as myself, even acknowledge its flaws. And mainly it's about its pacing.

And yes, people's complaints are all about the things Dario explained away. It's true, if they're complaining about things like that, then they were CLEARLY not paying attention.

You make a good point – for example on these very boards, somebody asked if it was Lex who sent Bruce the uncashed cheques with the messages on and the newspaper cover. When pointed out to them that it was and that Lex even told Superman that he did on the roof of Lexcorp, the answer was "well I didn't catch it because he was speaking too fast"! ...which you could say was reasonable enough... except when I saw the movie again after reading the comments I actually took notice during that scene... Lex speaks normally when he confesses to Superman... not fast, normal. To not hear it you would have to be deaf or not paying attention. Unfortunately for some, BvS requires you pay attention.

 

[dario2739]

One thing I did forget to say... and the most important considering the thread - is that Affleck's Batman is by far the best live-action Batman on screen so far, and I loved the suit design, and as such this figure was a must-buy before Hot Toys announced it! In fact the trinity are must-buys and the rest of the JL when they come out too.

 

[BrooklynWolf X]

Re: Possible Hot Toys DC TV license?

I'm not saying at all that the only reason people who didn't like BvS didn't understand it... i've seen plenty of reasoned arguments from people who didn't like it... but the comment I replied to, clearly hadn't understood, and unfortunately most posts that dislike the movie are from people misunderstanding the simplest things – and trashing it for 'flaws' that certain other franchise get away with.

No film is, or ever will be, perfect – maybe it's my tastes in movies, I loved MoS and Watchmen (Rorschach for me personally is the best comic page to screen transition so far... though WW and Batfleck come verrrry close). Maybe it's that I like that the DCEU is different to the MCU, and gives a more realistic approach... or maybe it's just the DC fan in me... I'm emotionally attached to those characters - I grew up with them. BvS held more emotion for me than any CBM i've ever seen.

I also think that, even if you didn't like the movie, you'd have to agree that some of the scenes are spectacular... I also think that Batman fighting the Mercs in the warehouse is the best fight/action scene in CBMs to date... it's just brutal and unlike the choreographed martial arts fare we're used to being dished up... though the Daredevil corridor fight is a verrry close second.
Also loved the opening scene – Bruce driving through the streets, the Kryptonian ship crashing, the fight between Supes and Zod, the heat vision ripping through the building, Bruce's reaction... perfect.

Here, I'll channel those that hate the film for you. This is the echo chamber:

The warehouse scene? He was too brutal. Why does he kill? Not muh batman!

The opening scene? Ugh, just more of snyders h@£d on for destruction pr0n. And why was Gotham so close to metropolis? Speaking of...MARTHA!

THIS is the narrative most BvS discussions degenerate into. We give logical explanations to certain scenes people disliked, and they repeat the same incoherent crap "...yeah well it's stupid...and so are you"

It's tiring.

 

[BrooklynWolf X]

Honestly Dario, it's pointless arguing with certain members. They hated the movie since its inception. As far as I'm concerned, they never gave it a chance. They were convinced, no matter what, that the movie will suck. Even having seen it, even if there was a little bit of the movie that tickled their fancy, it's still "nope! NOpe! It's crap! Nothing will change my mind!"

It's like this scene:

Family guy Stubborn Donkey - YouTube

 

[DiFabio]

I hated Batman v Superman and thought it was an awful movie, but I don't see how anyone couldn't like the warehouse scene where he beats the **** out of all those guys and saves Martha in that hostage situation. He kills? So what, atleast he actually looked effective for a change. Who doesn't like how he's growling and huffing and puffing in pain after taking a few shots to the head and a knife to the chest? He was great.

When this comes out on blu ray, I guarantee that's one of the first things people put up on youtube along with his fight against Superman and the Mad Max Batman sequence. It'll be nice for people like me who hated the movie but liked parts of it so it's just one click away without having to endure the entire thing.

 

[SilverStar17]

I hated Batman v Superman and thought it was an awful movie, but I don't see how anyone couldn't like the warehouse scene where he beats the **** out of all those guys and saves Martha in that hostage situation. He kills? So what, atleast he actually looked effective for a change. Who doesn't like how he's growling and huffing and puffing in pain after taking a few shots to the head and a knife to the chest? He was great.

When this comes out on blu ray, I guarantee that's one of the first things people put up on youtube along with his fight against Superman and the Mad Max Batman sequence. It'll be nice for people like me who hated the movie but liked parts of it so it's just one click away without having to endure the entire thing.

Agreed. I'd be willing to wager the first four YouTube videos from this movie will likely be (in no order):

- Batman derelict warehouse beat down
- Superman's death
- Batman vs. Superman fight
- WW's first appearance during end battle

I personally love the movie as an aggregate whole, but there are indeed several parts that make me wonder how anyone can despise as a stand alone part, even if they didn't like the movie as a whole.

 

[EVILFACE]

Are people srsly mad because some liked or didn't like a movie. wgaf

Gimme my damn batman doll hot toys. And the gizmo helmet thingy that I'll never use.

 

[DiFabio]

Gimme my damn batman doll hot toys. And the gizmo helmet thingy that I'll never use.

Got any pets? Give it to them as a chew toy.

 

[BrooklynWolf X]

Are people srsly mad because some liked or didn't like a movie. wgaf

Gimme my damn batman doll hot toys. And the gizmo helmet thingy that I'll never use.

I ain't mad, i just don't see why some people keep regurgitating the same thing over and over again. It's boring as ****.

The BvS MMS threads in general are more positive about the film so I stay here. This thread is about the goddamn batman (toy), and discussions from the movie thread somehow managed to find its way over. Given its a toy based off of the character that appeared in the movie, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise...but I don't find myself arguing or trying to convince people why it's a good movie in the movie thread. I wanna stick to talking about the figure.

 

[Tourist]

Honestly Dario, it's pointless arguing with certain members. They hated the movie since its inception. As far as I'm concerned, they never gave it a chance. They were convinced, no matter what, that the movie will suck. Even having seen it, even if there was a little bit of the movie that tickled their fancy, it's still "nope! NOpe! It's crap! Nothing will change my mind!"

Most of those who claim the movie sucked are unable to argue their point, instead they borrow the same vocabulary from one or two critics to spread the dumb mantra.
Their dislike of BVS is not even their own opinion, it's something they feel compelled to say because it fits the little boxes in their heads.
Fanboyism at its worst.

 

[SilverStar17]

I ain't mad, i just don't see why some people keep regurgitating the same thing over and over again. It's boring as ****.

The BvS MMS threads in general are more positive about the film so I stay here. This thread is about the goddamn batman (toy), and discussions from the movie thread somehow managed to find its way over. Given its a toy based off of the character that appeared in the movie, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise...but I don't find myself arguing or trying to convince people why it's a good movie in the movie thread. I wanna stick to talking about the figure.

The MMS threads seem to be more positive than the film section in general about anything. I ventured into the film section once and never went back. It seemed the majority of users in that section merely sit down at their computers and spew bile for the sake of having somewhere to complain about something, from what I gleaned.

 

[BrooklynWolf X]

I hated Batman v Superman and thought it was an awful movie, but I don't see how anyone couldn't like the warehouse scene where he beats the **** out of all those guys and saves Martha in that hostage situation. He kills? So what, atleast he actually looked effective for a change. Who doesn't like how he's growling and huffing and puffing in pain after taking a few shots to the head and a knife to the chest? He was great.

When this comes out on blu ray, I guarantee that's one of the first things people put up on youtube along with his fight against Superman and the Mad Max Batman sequence. It'll be nice for people like me who hated the movie but liked parts of it so it's just one click away without having to endure the entire thing.

My friends opinion is pretty much in line with yours. He didn't hate the movie though, but felt it was a sloppily put together movie. He loved what was in the movie, the action scenes and emotional beats...but as a movie itself, he felt it was poorly put together.

I've acknowledged BvS has pacing issues and am confident the ultimate cut will change my friends, as well as those that felt the same, opinion around.

 

[BrooklynWolf X]

Most of those who claim the movie sucked are unable to argue their point, instead they borrow the same vocabulary from one or two critics to spread the dumb mantra.
Their dislike of BVS is not even their own opinion, it's something they feel compelled to say because it fits the little boxes in their heads.
Fanboyism at its worst.

The MMS threads seem to be more positive than the film section in general about anything. I ventured into the film section once and never went back. It seemed the majority of users in that section merely sit down at their computers and spew bile for the sake of having somewhere to complain about something, from what I gleaned.

Exactly! And that's why I had to respond to evilface. We ain't mad. We just annoyed yo

I too am waiting for the figure....and that's it. The FIGURE. I wanna stick to talking about the figure and criticize HT for not giving us a BW HS. But every other post is criticisms about the movie or debating about the idea of opinions...wtf??

I even encouraged you, silver, to let it be...but I understand how you feel. It gets to a point where you lose control and just have to respond.

I'm done talking about the movie. If Starscream wishes to continue, go on ahead. I'm gonna stick to talking about the toy itself.

 

[SilverStar17]

Exactly! And that's why I had to respond to evilface. We ain't mad. We just annoyed yo

I too am waiting for the figure....and that's it. The FIGURE. I wanna stick to talking about the figure and criticize HT for not giving us a BW HS. But every other post is criticisms about the movie or debating about the idea of opinions...wtf??

I even encouraged you, silver, to let it be...but I understand how you feel. It gets to a point where you lose control and just have to respond.

I'm done talking about the movie. If Starscream wishes to continue, go on ahead. I'm gonna stick to talking about the toy itself.

Some people have genuinely convinced themselves that their mere opinions are indeed fact, and they adamantly believe that. I suppose for some, the general anonymity of the Internet gives them a platform for these "facts" to be "heard", because I would venture to guess that if they went around in person voicing their opinion unsolicited, they would likely be met with a resounding:

 

[Remy]

Exactly! And that's why I had to respond to evilface. We ain't mad. We just annoyed yo

I too am waiting for the figure....and that's it. The FIGURE. I wanna stick to talking about the figure and criticize HT for not giving us a BW HS. But every other post is criticisms about the movie or debating about the idea of opinions...wtf??

I even encouraged you, silver, to let it be...but I understand how you feel. It gets to a point where you lose control and just have to respond.

I'm done talking about the movie. If Starscream wishes to continue, go on ahead. I'm gonna stick to talking about the toy itself.

Lol...I actually wrote a long response yesterday on another one of those negative posts here, but I ended up feeling the way you did.
That is just gonna be another wasted space of debating about the movie. I ended up just deleting it.

It just seems like the topic just keeps going back in circles.
Man, think this has been the most polarizing movie I can think of, its like each side cant understand why they like/dislike the movie.
Had a long conversation with a coworker yesterday, cause he felt the same I did, and confused how people can not like the movie. He really loved it a lot.
But then, I talked to my best friend the other day to see if he's seen it yet, and he hasnt cause aside from me, every person he has talked to said they didnt like the movie. So he kinda didnt feel the need to rush and see the movie. Fortunately though, he said it hasnt deter him from still seeing the movie, cause he liked MOS, so he has a feeling he'll probably like the movie.

 

[SilverStar17]

Lol...I actually wrote a long response yesterday on another one of those negative posts here, but I ended up feeling the way you did.
That is just gonna be another wasted space of debating about the movie. I ended up just deleting it.

It just seems like the topic just keeps going back in circles.
Man, think this has been the most polarizing movie I can think of, its like each side cant understand why they like/dislike the movie.
Had a long conversation with a coworker yesterday, cause he felt the same I did, and confused how people can not like the movie. He really loved it a lot.
But then, I talked to my best friend the other day to see if he's seen it yet, and he hasnt cause aside from me, every person he has talked to said they didnt like the movie. So he kinda didnt feel the need to rush and see the movie. Fortunately though, he said it hasnt deter him from still seeing the movie, cause he liked MOS, so he has a feeling he'll probably like the movie.

I'm with you there.

With MoS for instance, I don't feel the urge to go into detail anymore in explaining to individuals who may have not really understood something. I feel it's kind of water under the bridge and is pretty much moot at this point. I feel I can't say anything more than what I already have in the past and I feel it now just bogs the threads down with useless, irrelevant discussion as it pertains to the figures.

BvS is starting to get to that point also, if it hasn't already. I've spoken to people also who haven't seen it and they seem reluctant to because they see it hasn't been getting favorable reviews. I always tell them that I of course loved it, and that my advice to them is to go see it for yourself and then form your OWN opinion about it based on what YOU saw; don't form an opinion about it based on the opinions of others.

Just as those who didn't like it can't fathom why people do like it, I can't fathom why anyone would utterly detest it. I personally saw a really good film both times I see it, even more so the second time. Sure it has its flaws, as any film does, but I personally see absolutely no reason to despise it the way some people do.

The biggest issue I have though is not when people despise something that I like, but when they genuinely believe that their opinion is "fact" and that just because their opinion about something is negative, then to them that means everyone else is liking something that is intrinsically "bad". Vice versa also. I can respect dissenting opinions when people have genuinely given something thought and they keep arriving to the same conclusion after careful consideration, but I can't respect opinions when people give something little to no effort in thought, and they just simply go along with what other people are saying or doing without coming to any sort of logical nor rational conclusion of their own.

 

[Sevreed]

"Did you actually watch the movie? Sorry, not trying to be condescending but I can't understand people 'not getting it!'
Firstly, not listening to reason? Who's reason exactly? Batman/Bruce has been protecting Gotham for twenty years – fighting to keep all kinds of wackos off the streets - then in a few minutes he wastches a handful of Super-powered aliens destroy a large part of one of America's largest cities, killing thousands (including a lot of Wayne employees)... a city that is only 5miles across the harbour from Gotham."

How about investigating what happened? He would find out Superman grew up here and tried his best to save every living being on the planet. Could he have been better at containing the loss of life and damage, yes, but he did help save the planet. Oh, and Metropolis and Gotham being together is so stupid and goes against every version of the DC universe that has come before. If that's true Clark would have confronted the Batman a long time ago. Wouldn't Clark be spending most of his time saving people in Gotham? Why wouldn't Bruce have shown up to protect Metropolis as Batman when the aliens first announced themselves in MOS before crap hits the fan? There was plenty of time considering they are right next to each other.

Seems very logical to me that a battle-weary Batman faced with this new threat would want to do something about it... look at the Tower of Babel storyline in th Justice League - he had plans to take down every JL member.

Yes, he has a contengency plan in case they go bad, he doesn't attack them just because there is a "1% chance" that they might go bad. It's a last resort, not a first response.

Secondly - the out of control bit... well that also ties in with the previous point, because it is clearly pointed out in the movie that Luthor is manipulating both Batman and Superman into fighting. He really knows which buttons to push on Batman, and I like the fact that in the movie Superman doesn't want to fight.

How dumb is this version of Batman to fall for this? The comic version of Batman would see this crap coming a mile away. You know, after actually trying to figure things out. This Batman can't even use google. Oh, and this Clark is fine with killing if you threaten Lois.

Also have to remember that at this point Bruce sees Superman as a villain, would you moan that Batman was acting out of character if he fought Croc or Clayface like he did Superman...?

No, I wouldn't moan If Superman was a known criminal who kills innocent people, that would be fine, yes. But he's not, he's a hero who helped save the entire planet! But oddly enough, in this new universe the only people Batman doesn't kill are the known super villains, like Croc, Harley and Joker.

We all know Bruce is a driven individual to get to where he is, and it has been hinted many times in comic and film that his mental state isn't exactly 'healthy' anyway.

Yep, in the comics he's so driven and mentally unstable that he refuses to use guns, because it's what killed his parents, and he won't kill because in his crazy point of view it would bring him down to the criminals level.

Lastly the nightmare scene – again I liked that... it's part of the subplot that Bruce is having these nightmarish visions of the future, which also shows a rougue Superman (again you wonder why he beats him up later?) - as for Gun Crazy... well yeah he does use a gun there, but did you not notice that it's a future where a Superior and malignant Alien dictator had taken over the Earth... that the survivors were at War, fighting for their very lives against flying Alien soldiers? Sure let's have Batman just punching and kicking people in that situation, just like Captain America did in WW2... oh wait..!

So if I have nightmares about Trump taking over the world is it all right to attack him then? No, It would be completely wrong and idiotic.
And Captain America never swore off guns like past versions of Batman but in a war I could see him giving in. That's one thing that I could look over.

Oh, almost forgot... the Martha moment! Wow, how is this hard for people to comprehend? Bruce dedicated his life to fighting crime because of Thomas and Martha's murder in front of his very eyes... his whole life is a dedicated to their memory. So put yourself in his position... if somebody shouted out your murdered mother's name and said "save her", how would you react? Bruce didn't know Clark's mum was called Martha, and at that moment all that registers was "how does he know my mum's name? Why is he talking about my mum?" ...it's visibly a body-blow, simultaneously makes him realise that Clark is just a man, no matter how super-powered, and also makes him realise that he's gone off the rails, knowing that his mother would be disappointed if she were still alive... it's all there in the comics to be honest, Bruce never get's over the loss of his parents!

Bruce has never heard anyone else say the name Martha? Does he just automatically give anyone a pass if they do? Does the Joker know this? Is this why he's still alive even though he killed Robin? If this is the same guy that's wiling to execute someone on a chance that they could go bad he's not stopping because Superman says "Save Martha". He would jam that spear right through his chest.
I am not going to give this movie a pass just because We get to see Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman together. But I'm also not going to say you are "not getting it" if you don't agree with me. People are allowed to like or dislike different things.

 

[Remy]

I'm with you there.

With MoS for instance, I don't feel the urge to go into detail anymore in explaining to individuals who may have not really understood something. I feel it's kind of water under the bridge and is pretty much moot at this point. I feel I can't say anything more than what I already have in the past and I feel it now just bogs the threads down with useless, irrelevant discussion as it pertains to the figures.

BvS is starting to get to that point also, if it hasn't already. I've spoken to people also who haven't seen it and they seem reluctant to because they see it hasn't been getting favorable reviews. I always tell them that I of course loved it, and that my advice to them is to go see it for yourself and then form your OWN opinion about it based on what YOU saw; don't form an opinion about it based on the opinions of others.

Just as those who didn't like it can't fathom why people do like it, I can't fathom why anyone would utterly detest it. I personally saw a really good film both times I see it, even more so the second time. Sure it has its flaws, as any film does, but I personally see absolutely no reason to despise it the way some people do.

The biggest issue I have though is not when people despise something that I like, but when they genuinely believe that their opinion is "fact" and that just because their opinion about something is negative, then to them that means everyone else is liking something that is intrinsically "bad". Vice versa also. I can respect dissenting opinions when people have genuinely given something thought and they keep arriving to the same conclusion after careful consideration, but I can't respect opinions when people give something little to no effort in thought, and they just simply go along with what other people are saying or doing without coming to any sort of logical nor rational conclusion of their own.

Yeah, that's usually what provokes me many times to reply to a post.
The biggest thing that frustrates me...I understand that at some point, it can be compared to other superhero genre...particulary...even marvel movies.
But what irritates me is when I read that it should have been like Marvel movie.
No...marvel has its own tone, and DC has always had a darker tone.
When you take points off the movie because of bias opinion of another movie, instead of judging it by its own merits, then that's when I have issues
with the negative feedback.

I wholeheartedly understand if someone doesnt like this tone of movie.
Just like the movie, the Crow...Love the movie a lot. I remember discussing the movie to other people who stated that they dont like the movie at all. They said it was just too dark for them. Not only in story, but visual aspect was too dreary. And that most of the scenes were at night.
I can respect that.
But its like saying you dont like it cause its not like Spiderman movie.

 

[SilverStar17]

Yeah, that's usually what provokes me many times to reply to a post.
The biggest thing that frustrates me...I understand that at some point, it can be compared to other superhero genre...particulary...even marvel movies.
But what irritates me is when I read that it should have been like Marvel movie.
No...marvel has its own tone, and DC has always had a darker tone.
When you take points off the movie because of bias opinion of another movie, instead of judging it by its own merits, then that's when I have issues
with the negative feedback.

I wholeheartedly understand if someone doesnt like this tone of movie.
Just like the movie, the Crow...Love the movie a lot. I remember discussing the movie to other people who stated that they dont like the movie at all. They said it was just too dark for them. Not only in story, but visual aspect was too dreary. And that most of the scenes were at night.
I can respect that.
But its like saying you dont like it cause its not like Spiderman movie.