1/6 Hot Toys - BvS: Dawn of Justice - Batman

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Sevreed said:
You know what's funny? Seeing the movie has made me not want the other two versions of Batman. When he is in either costume he's acting very out of character. The Nightmare scene is a mess that didn't need to be included (where he goes all gun crazy) and the armored version is an a$$ that won't listen to reason or common sense. And then makes 180 degree turnaround because of a name? It's a shame cause I was liking the look of the armored version.
Click to expand...

Ah, well I feel it was much deeper than simply being a name that caused him to have an epiphany. Although I'm sure having the same name helped. :lol

I'll likely be getting all three though.
 
You can buy (or not buy) figures for whatever reasons you like. I hated the film and don't even really like the suit designs but I might still get one of them to go with Supes.
 
Sevreed said:
You know what's funny? Seeing the movie has made me not want the other two versions of Batman. When he is in either costume he's acting very out of character. The Nightmare scene is a mess that didn't need to be included (where he goes all gun crazy) and the armored version is an a$$ that won't listen to reason or common sense. And then makes 180 degree turnaround because of a name? It's a shame cause I was liking the look of the armored version.
Click to expand...

Did you actually watch the movie? Sorry, not trying to be condescending but I can't understand people 'not getting it!'

Firstly, not listening to reason? Who's reason exactly? Batman/Bruce has been protecting Gotham for twenty years – fighting to keep all kinds of wackos off the streets - then in a few minutes he wastches a handful of Super-powered aliens destroy a large part of one of America's largest cities, killing thousands (including a lot of Wayne employees)... a city that is only 5miles across the harbour from Gotham. Seems very logical to me that a battle-weary Batman faced with this new threat would want to do something about it... look at the Tower of Babel storyline in th Justice League - he had plans to take down every JL member.
Secondly - the out of control bit... well that also ties in with the previous point, because it is clearly pointed out in the movie that Luthor is manipulating both Batman and Superman into fighting. He really knows which buttons to push on Batman, and I like the fact that in the movie Superman doesn't want to fight. Also have to remember that at this point Bruce sees Superman as a villain, would you moan that Batman was acting out of character if he fought Croc or Clayface like he did Superman...? We all know Bruce is a driven individual to get to where he is, and it has been hinted many times in comic and film that his mental state isn't exactly 'healthy' anyway.
Lastly the nightmare scene – again I liked that... it's part of the subplot that Bruce is having these nightmarish visions of the future, which also shows a rougue Superman (again you wonder why he beats him up later?) - as for Gun Crazy... well yeah he does use a gun there, but did you not notice that it's a future where a Superior and malignant Alien dictator had taken over the Earth... that the survivors were at War, fighting for their very lives against flying Alien soldiers? Sure let's have Batman just punching and kicking people in that situation, just like Captain America did in WW2... oh wait..!

Oh, almost forgot... the Martha moment! Wow, how is this hard for people to comprehend? Bruce dedicated his life to fighting crime because of Thomas and Martha's murder in front of his very eyes... his whole life is a dedicated to their memory. So put yourself in his position... if somebody shouted out your murdered mother's name and said "save her", how would you react? Bruce didn't know Clark's mum was called Martha, and at that moment all that registers was "how does he know my mum's name? Why is he talking about my mum?" ...it's visibly a body-blow, simultaneously makes him realise that Clark is just a man, no matter how super-powered, and also makes him realise that he's gone off the rails, knowing that his mother would be disappointed if she were still alive... it's all there in the comics to be honest, Bruce never get's over the loss of his parents!
 
SilverStar17 said:
Christopher Reeves' Superman was a different Superman; I felt his version is actually stronger and more powerful than the MoS version. The manner in which Jonathan Kent died was perfect for that particular rendition of Superman given how powerful he is supposed to be, being that it put things into perspective for him. The manner in which Jonathan Kent died fit this current version perfectly, in my opinion. Given the theme of the film and the theme for this particular version of Supes, I personally felt "maybe" was good script writing.
Click to expand...

I agree with BJW1072 in as much as I didn't like how they killed Jonathon off in MoS, but SilverStar17 you are spot on with the script –*I loved the part where Jonathon said "Maybe" - it was a very powerful moment, as proven by everyone still talking about it - but it made perfect sense... it's what any parent would say while trying to protect their child.
 
:exactly:
dario2739 said:
Did you actually watch the movie? Sorry, not trying to be condescending but I can't understand people 'not getting it!'

Firstly, not listening to reason? Who's reason exactly? Batman/Bruce has been protecting Gotham for twenty years – fighting to keep all kinds of wackos off the streets - then in a few minutes he wastches a handful of Super-powered aliens destroy a large part of one of America's largest cities, killing thousands (including a lot of Wayne employees)... a city that is only 5miles across the harbour from Gotham. Seems very logical to me that a battle-weary Batman faced with this new threat would want to do something about it... look at the Tower of Babel storyline in th Justice League - he had plans to take down every JL member.
Secondly - the out of control bit... well that also ties in with the previous point, because it is clearly pointed out in the movie that Luthor is manipulating both Batman and Superman into fighting. He really knows which buttons to push on Batman, and I like the fact that in the movie Superman doesn't want to fight. Also have to remember that at this point Bruce sees Superman as a villain, would you moan that Batman was acting out of character if he fought Croc or Clayface like he did Superman...? We all know Bruce is a driven individual to get to where he is, and it has been hinted many times in comic and film that his mental state isn't exactly 'healthy' anyway.
Lastly the nightmare scene – again I liked that... it's part of the subplot that Bruce is having these nightmarish visions of the future, which also shows a rougue Superman (again you wonder why he beats him up later?) - as for Gun Crazy... well yeah he does use a gun there, but did you not notice that it's a future where a Superior and malignant Alien dictator had taken over the Earth... that the survivors were at War, fighting for their very lives against flying Alien soldiers? Sure let's have Batman just punching and kicking people in that situation, just like Captain America did in WW2... oh wait..!

Oh, almost forgot... the Martha moment! Wow, how is this hard for people to comprehend? Bruce dedicated his life to fighting crime because of Thomas and Martha's murder in front of his very eyes... his whole life is a dedicated to their memory. So put yourself in his position... if somebody shouted out your murdered mother's name and said "save her", how would you react? Bruce didn't know Clark's mum was called Martha, and at that moment all that registers was "how does he know my mum's name? Why is he talking about my mum?" ...it's visibly a body-blow, simultaneously makes him realise that Clark is just a man, no matter how super-powered, and also makes him realise that he's gone off the rails, knowing that his mother would be disappointed if she were still alive... it's all there in the comics to be honest, Bruce never get's over the loss of his parents!
Click to expand...

Great insights!:goodpost:
 
dario2739 said:
Did you actually watch the movie? Sorry, not trying to be condescending but I can't understand people 'not getting it!'

Firstly, not listening to reason? Who's reason exactly? Batman/Bruce has been protecting Gotham for twenty years – fighting to keep all kinds of wackos off the streets - then in a few minutes he wastches a handful of Super-powered aliens destroy a large part of one of America's largest cities, killing thousands (including a lot of Wayne employees)... a city that is only 5miles across the harbour from Gotham. Seems very logical to me that a battle-weary Batman faced with this new threat would want to do something about it... look at the Tower of Babel storyline in th Justice League - he had plans to take down every JL member.
Secondly - the out of control bit... well that also ties in with the previous point, because it is clearly pointed out in the movie that Luthor is manipulating both Batman and Superman into fighting. He really knows which buttons to push on Batman, and I like the fact that in the movie Superman doesn't want to fight. Also have to remember that at this point Bruce sees Superman as a villain, would you moan that Batman was acting out of character if he fought Croc or Clayface like he did Superman...? We all know Bruce is a driven individual to get to where he is, and it has been hinted many times in comic and film that his mental state isn't exactly 'healthy' anyway.
Lastly the nightmare scene – again I liked that... it's part of the subplot that Bruce is having these nightmarish visions of the future, which also shows a rougue Superman (again you wonder why he beats him up later?) - as for Gun Crazy... well yeah he does use a gun there, but did you not notice that it's a future where a Superior and malignant Alien dictator had taken over the Earth... that the survivors were at War, fighting for their very lives against flying Alien soldiers? Sure let's have Batman just punching and kicking people in that situation, just like Captain America did in WW2... oh wait..!

Oh, almost forgot... the Martha moment! Wow, how is this hard for people to comprehend? Bruce dedicated his life to fighting crime because of Thomas and Martha's murder in front of his very eyes... his whole life is a dedicated to their memory. So put yourself in his position... if somebody shouted out your murdered mother's name and said "save her", how would you react? Bruce didn't know Clark's mum was called Martha, and at that moment all that registers was "how does he know my mum's name? Why is he talking about my mum?" ...it's visibly a body-blow, simultaneously makes him realise that Clark is just a man, no matter how super-powered, and also makes him realise that he's gone off the rails, knowing that his mother would be disappointed if she were still alive... it's all there in the comics to be honest, Bruce never get's over the loss of his parents!
Click to expand...

(Listens intently)....pffft! but whatever man, he said MARTHA and all of a sudden they became BFFs...whatever man!!!


In all seriousness, this is a great post. These are the exact things people complain about in an echo chamber of overblown hate. It's almost as if they didn't pay attention or refuse to listen to ANYTHING that puts this movie in a more positive light.
 
Starscream Soundwave said:
Ah yeah, that classic. If you didn't like it, it's because you didn't understand it... Film was full of flaws.
Click to expand...

Every film is flawed. Those that love this film, such as myself, even acknowledge its flaws. And mainly it's about its pacing.

And yes, people's complaints are all about the things Dario explained away. It's true, if they're complaining about things like that, then they were CLEARLY not paying attention.
 
I liked the 'Maybe...' response. Most of us want our heroes to be absolutely resolute in their decisions. The truth is that even the best among us simply try to do what they feel is right. I haven't met many people I consider to be great who would say they are always certain if they are doing the right/best thing. I think Zack Snyder's take on Superman makes him much more human and relatable.

Having said that, I didn't like MoS when I first saw it. I did the whole 'This isn't Christopher Reeve!' thing. Once I realized that it's not trying to be, I watched the film for what it was and I really enjoyed it.
 
dario2739 said:
Did you actually watch the movie? Sorry, not trying to be condescending but I can't understand people 'not getting it!'

Firstly, not listening to reason? Who's reason exactly? Batman/Bruce has been protecting Gotham for twenty years – fighting to keep all kinds of wackos off the streets - then in a few minutes he wastches a handful of Super-powered aliens destroy a large part of one of America's largest cities, killing thousands (including a lot of Wayne employees)... a city that is only 5miles across the harbour from Gotham. Seems very logical to me that a battle-weary Batman faced with this new threat would want to do something about it... look at the Tower of Babel storyline in th Justice League - he had plans to take down every JL member.
Secondly - the out of control bit... well that also ties in with the previous point, because it is clearly pointed out in the movie that Luthor is manipulating both Batman and Superman into fighting. He really knows which buttons to push on Batman, and I like the fact that in the movie Superman doesn't want to fight. Also have to remember that at this point Bruce sees Superman as a villain, would you moan that Batman was acting out of character if he fought Croc or Clayface like he did Superman...? We all know Bruce is a driven individual to get to where he is, and it has been hinted many times in comic and film that his mental state isn't exactly 'healthy' anyway.
Lastly the nightmare scene – again I liked that... it's part of the subplot that Bruce is having these nightmarish visions of the future, which also shows a rougue Superman (again you wonder why he beats him up later?) - as for Gun Crazy... well yeah he does use a gun there, but did you not notice that it's a future where a Superior and malignant Alien dictator had taken over the Earth... that the survivors were at War, fighting for their very lives against flying Alien soldiers? Sure let's have Batman just punching and kicking people in that situation, just like Captain America did in WW2... oh wait..!

Oh, almost forgot... the Martha moment! Wow, how is this hard for people to comprehend? Bruce dedicated his life to fighting crime because of Thomas and Martha's murder in front of his very eyes... his whole life is a dedicated to their memory. So put yourself in his position... if somebody shouted out your murdered mother's name and said "save her", how would you react? Bruce didn't know Clark's mum was called Martha, and at that moment all that registers was "how does he know my mum's name? Why is he talking about my mum?" ...it's visibly a body-blow, simultaneously makes him realise that Clark is just a man, no matter how super-powered, and also makes him realise that he's gone off the rails, knowing that his mother would be disappointed if she were still alive... it's all there in the comics to be honest, Bruce never get's over the loss of his parents!
Click to expand...

:goodpost:

Great in-depth analysis of what that meaning of that scene was seemingly intended to be. While undoubtedly Superman's mother sharing a common name as Batman's helped, there was a lot more emotion in it than just simply hey your mom has the same name as mine? Cool, let's be friends now.

dario2739 said:
I agree with BJW1072 in as much as I didn't like how they killed Jonathon off in MoS, but SilverStar17 you are spot on with the script –*I loved the part where Jonathon said "Maybe" - it was a very powerful moment, as proven by everyone still talking about it - but it made perfect sense... it's what any parent would say while trying to protect their child.
Click to expand...

I thought so too. Actually, what spoke more volumes to me than the "maybe" response was the body language of Kevin Costner in that particular scene. I feel that in many scenes in films, the actor's body language speaks just as loud (if not louder) as the dialogue when it comes to interpreting and deciphering the meaning of and the feeling behind a particular scene.

Starscream Soundwave said:
Ah yeah, that classic. If you didn't like it, it's because you didn't understand it... Film was full of flaws.
Click to expand...

I don't think he's saying that. For some people, it may very well be the case that they don't like a certain thing simply because they didn't particularly understand something. Helping them understand something they may have been otherwise confused about doesn't mean their opinion is wrong, it's just perhaps giving them a new perspective on what they apparently may have missed or were confused about. If they decide to change their mind after now being given that new perspective, then they're free to. However, after having that new perspective given to them and they still don't really like it because they saw it differently, that's perfectly fine too. I don't think anyone is saying that if one didn't like it, it must invariably mean it's because they didn't understand it. That would be somewhat myopic.

Just as myopic as the people who state that just because in their opinion they don't like something, it by default means that it's a fact that it's horrible. That's usually classic also.
 
No film is flawless, true. But some are more flawed than others, and BvS is right up there. You can like a film in spite of it's flaws, but yeah... It still has flaws.
 
To say it is entirely subjective would be to say that there are no good or bad films, which would be a little disrespectful to filmmaking as a form of art.
 
Starscream Soundwave said:
To say it is entirely subjective would be to say that there are no good or bad films, which would be a little disrespectful to filmmaking as a form of art.
Click to expand...

I agree that there ARE bad films out there. Subjective or not, there are movies out in the world that are pure garbage and have no reason to exist other than to drive us to insanity. And those are the films that prove there is such a thing called uneducated or bad opinion.

BvS is not one of those films. You say subjectivity to good or bad films is an insult to the art of films...ok, to say BvS is amongst the worst, Uwe Boll tier film, is an insult to not only the cast and crew, but fans that genuinely loved the film.

So what's your end goal here? To prove how much you hated it? Ok, job well done. What next? To change someone else's opinion? Hey, I'm open to the idea, just as long as you are as well...

And after post after post after post...it appears to me no ones opinion is changing. If you wanna continue crapping on the film, go to the movie thread. There you'll find the same dozen or so members in an echo chamber of hate towards BvS. Let us, the ones that enjoyed the film, be. We are excited for these figures, we are excited for the next series of films set in this universe. Why the **** should it matter to you? You don't like it, good for you. You wanna share that hatred? There's another thread for exactly that.

You're not going to convince anyone as much as we aren't going to convince you. So my suggestion is: let it go. I hated age of ultron...so you won't find me in there. I sure as hell love BvS, and guess what, I'm here.
 

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