Headplay recast Rainman's monkey sculpt again!

[armysoldier74b]

I don't think that would stop things, but it could slow things down. For guys like Rainman though, it would make it that much harder to pick up any of his stuff though, because the demand for full figures would go up. And the unintended consequence would be higher demand for recast heads (since none would be created by the man himself).

Demand would go up, but its not like everyone can buy a FS or DX in the first place. If anything RM can increase the number of figures he makes available. Maybe offer a FS/DX version, painted by the Iminimi team that is priced lower. Have owners register their figures on his website so it can be tracked and applied toward VIP points. A certain amount of points gain you VIP status and if you sell your figure and someone registers that COA number onto his website than the previous owner loses those VIP points.Gaining or losing points can either put you in or take you out of VIP status.

Current VIP are grandfathered in of course. Just an idea.

 

[Jimmy C]

I notice for both Fight club heads and the monkey head it says material: resin (being the medium of a typical grassroots caster or recaster).
Would'nt a Headplay product be made in vynl ?
I see no ohter recognizable legit headplay products for sale by this seller.
I have seen names of big companies like HT or SSC or BBI attached to auctions of products that are not their's just to attract attention to the auction

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Demand would go up, but its not like everyone can buy a FS or DX in the first place. If anything RM can increase the number of figures he makes available. Maybe offer a FS/DX version, painted by the Iminimi team that is priced lower. Have owners register their figures on his website so it can be tracked and applied toward VIP points. A certain amount of points gain you VIP status and if you sell your figure and someone registers that COA number onto his website than the previous owner loses those VIP points.Gaining or losing points can either put you in or take you out of VIP status.

Current VIP are grandfathered in of course. Just an idea.

Those are really great ideas.

 

[armysoldier74b]

Those are really great ideas.

Thank you.

I swear I came up with it all by myself.

Must be the Italian wine

 

[karamazov80]

An interesting suggestion there, and I like the VIP status being revokable (though I think it should apply retroactively to those VIPs that sold off a large chunk of their old Rainman collection already, if evidence to that effect could be determined). But I'm not sure that would slow down the potential recasting of those heads. HP could either become a VIP (and sell without listing COAs, or not sell those at all since making a recast doesn't mean you have to sell the original figure), or buy those second hand, then recast the heads for sale all the same.

I just don't think there is a great solution to this, apart from limiting edition sizes to a very small handful of hardcore faithfuls. If folks want to recast for sale, they will find a way to do it.

 

[armysoldier74b]

An interesting suggestion there, and I like the VIP status being revokable (though I think it should apply retroactively to those VIPs that sold off a large chunk of their old Rainman collection already, if evidence to that effect could be determined). But I'm not sure that would slow down the potential recasting of those heads. HP could either become a VIP (and sell without listing COAs, or not sell those at all since making a recast doesn't mean you have to sell the original figure), or buy those second hand, then recast the heads for sale all the same.

I just don't think there is a great solution to this, apart from limiting edition sizes to a very small handful of hardcore faithfuls. If folks want to recast for sale, they will find a way to do it.

They will always find a way but the best way to find the culprit is through accountability. If the mole is a VIP than I am sure he can be caught easily. I wonder where the culprit is? My first assumption is some in Korea or a customer somewhere in Asia, but this is only the first thought that crosses my mind.

I just don't see someone in the US or Europe contacting someone in China to have these recasted,

 

[breakersrevenge]

I can give a head to a caster, once cast, the original head comes back. track and trace a customer won't do anything to stop the recasting.

 

[armysoldier74b]

I can give a head to a caster, once cast, the original head comes back. track and trace a customer won't do anything to stop the recasting.

implant small GPS devices inside each HS

I see your point though. If someone really wants it casted, they will find a way.

 

[Darklord Dave]

The seller is not claiming they are 'original' Rainman pieces.

And again, you get back to the argument of stealing from a thief. If Rainman had paid license fees for these things, I might feel bad for him, but he didn't, so I don't. He profited off the hard work of Fincher, Palahniuk, Pitt and Norton without paying them, so when someone steals from a thief, I can't find it in my heart to feel bad about it.

Just to clarify - these are completely different things. Yes, it is technically wrong to create an unlicensed product of someone else's Intellectual Property. Comic book artists shouldn't be doing Batgirl sketches at cons and selling them. That is exactly the same thing as a 3D artist sculpting a portrait and then selling it. Copyright law says this is a no-no.

But it is a completely different thing for someone to take a sculpt that an artist has invested many hours in and simply copy it and sell it without compensating the artist. That is if someone took that comic book artist's sketch, photocopied and then sold it as an original.

 

[KingGrayskull]

Wasnt Diver4 banned for recasting? Cant we just kick headplay? I mean they just use this platform to promote their stuff. They do not add anything to the discussion. No loss.

 

[karamazov80]

They really haven't popped up since their thread was deleted that I've noticed. Not to defend themselves nor to promote "their" stuff. So I'm not sure if banishment would have any practical effect.

 

[peterparkernypd]

I just get in this thread, and want to understand:

Make a unlicensed Head Sculp and make a lot of money: RIGHT

Make a recast of a unlicensed Head Sculp and make money: WRONG

Is that correct?

 

[El Calvo]

I don't think this has anything to do with licensed or unlicensed. It has to do with the work of artiest that do the work out of love of doing it and for us fan that the big company's don't do. Why should they (Headplay) make money on other peoples work? That's what this is about for me anyway. If a real fan wants one hey get in line like the rest of us. I miss my chance to get Rainmans "The Dude" but I still would not buy a knockoff.
that's just me anyway.

 

[KingGrayskull]

I just get in this thread, and want to understand:

Make a unlicensed Head Sculp and make a lot of money: RIGHT

Make a recast of a unlicensed Head Sculp and make money: WRONG

Is that correct?

Its a lttle simplified but correct.

Just to explain it a little: companies like Hot Toys and Enterbay did the same when they were young promising companies.
Also their employees did the same. They have offered sculpts or even full unlicenced customs. For example Hot Toys hired a new sculptor for their Hellboy who was doing a hell of a custom HB that he has even sold. Summed up the company seems to at least put up with those sculptors. Why not? Its a great way to aquire new talent and if you keepman eye on the market you can easily find products people are interested in and aquire a licence. Or do you really think it happens by accident that many custom projects are followed by an official release (Nicholson Joker, Indy, BTTF, Hell Boy, just to name a few). Unlicenced sculpts are also nothing new. Some time back there were the so called Garage Kits. Unlicenced kits that were quite often followed by an official release, sometimes with the same sculptor. In my eyes the success of 1/6 as high end collectible did kill the garage kit scene. Anyway both scenes kind of toleratedmthe unofficalmproductions as long as they were not reaching higher numbers. They did sometimes even benefit as already explained. Headplay was on a godd way but became greedy. No room for these people.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Just to clarify - these are completely different things. Yes, it is technically wrong to create an unlicensed product of someone else's Intellectual Property. Comic book artists shouldn't be doing Batgirl sketches at cons and selling them. That is exactly the same thing as a 3D artist sculpting a portrait and then selling it. Copyright law says this is a no-no.

But it is a completely different thing for someone to take a sculpt that an artist has invested many hours in and simply copy it and sell it without compensating the artist. That is if someone took that comic book artist's sketch, photocopied and then sold it as an original.

Well, the recaster must have purchased the sculpt from Rainman, correct?? How else would he have obtained it?? So Rainman must have been compensated for it at some point in the chain.

If anything the recaster put SOME effort into it, as far as the painting goes. If I commissioned Adam Hughes to sketch me a Batgirl, and I took the sketch home and scanned it and digitally colored it and sold prints. . . am I stealing from Adam Hughes?? I think DC would come after me before Adam Hughes did.

There's more work in casting and painting a sculpt than there is in photocopying a piece of art.

I'm pretty sure I've said this before in this debate, but what it really comes down to, and what irks me about it is that we tolerate recasts if someone has recasted a company's product, but we do not tolerate if someone recast an 'individual's' work. People buy from 7Toys7 and IronCrossHunter and all the other recasters on eBay that recast Hot Toys stuff and all other companies stuff and that goes on all the time, and nobody starts threads about it, but when someone recasts Rainman's stuff. . . this is the 3rd or 4th thread about it. Shoot, I think even Elvis bought a recast HT Wolverine head so he could do a bash, but nobody shunned him for buying a recast. I mean, if Kojun did a custom Wolverine figure and someone recast it, there'd be a big to-do about it, but when Kojun sculpts a Wolverine for Hot Toys and it's recast, sure there's a big to-do about it, but then people buy it anyways because they want a Wolverine and don't want to pay for an original.

 

[Tekkaman Blade]

Well, the recaster must have purchased the sculpt from Rainman, correct?? How else would he have obtained it?? So Rainman must have been compensated for it at some point in the chain.

If anything the recaster put SOME effort into it, as far as the painting goes. If I commissioned Adam Hughes to sketch me a Batgirl, and I took the sketch home and scanned it and digitally colored it and sold prints. . . am I stealing from Adam Hughes?? I think DC would come after me before Adam Hughes did.

There's more work in casting and painting a sculpt than there is in photocopying a piece of art.

I'm pretty sure I've said this before in this debate, but what it really comes down to, and what irks me about it is that we tolerate recasts if someone has recasted a company's product, but we do not tolerate if someone recast an 'individual's' work. People buy from 7Toys7 and IronCrossHunter and all the other recasters on eBay that recast Hot Toys stuff and all other companies stuff and that goes on all the time, and nobody starts threads about it, but when someone recasts Rainman's stuff. . . this is the 3rd or 4th thread about it. Shoot, I think even Elvis bought a recast HT Wolverine head so he could do a bash, but nobody shunned him for buying a recast. I mean, if Kojun did a custom Wolverine figure and someone recast it, there'd be a big to-do about it, but when Kojun sculpts a Wolverine for Hot Toys and it's recast, sure there's a big to-do about it, but then people buy it anyways because they want a Wolverine and don't want to pay for an original.

The difference is HT could go after them if they wanted, they have the money to and the copyright on the sculpt. HT makes so much it isn't worth it for them to worry about recasts. But after some of the recent ones by headplay I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Rainman doesn't make as much money as HT and someone is basically making a lot of money off his work. But he isn't a big company, he's a single person. If this were to continue he may get fed up and stop offering sculpts, which would be bad. This is how we lost Z
https://web.mac.com/mic_luv/mic-luv/[店]Shop/[店]Shop.html
He had some great sculpts, but then they were all getting recast on e-bay and he couldn't get it to stop, so he stopped making custom sculpts.
It would be a crime if we lost Rainman for similar reasons, his sculpts are awesome. I've always enjoyed painting them.

 

[cokebabies]

I can give a head to a caster, once cast, the original head comes back. track and trace a customer won't do anything to stop the recasting.

Each sculpt should have a serial number carved in the forehead.

 

[aesthetics]

If money was the only thing your are after, the smartest thing would be to sell a very limited number of heads, say 20 pcs, and then release a mass produced version of the same sculpt under a different name, and then claim that it is a pirated re-cast.

We dont know what is going on behind the scene, and probably never will.

 

[Raymond F.]

If money was the only thing your are after, the smartest thing would be to sell a very limited number of heads, say 20 pcs, and then release a mass produced version of the same sculpt under a different name, and then claim that it is a pirated re-cast.

We don't know what is going on behind the scene, and probably never will.

True but I don't think that's the case here. Rainman was not aware that Headplay took his fight Club sculpts. This is unlike the case with Feng's bond and the Gestapo TTL figure. Feng sold the head to them and they credited him. Feng also sold a limited number of hand painted/ hand casted sculpts.

If Rainman did this intentionally he would have not thrown headplay under the bus.

 

[karamazov80]

Unless it was the most elaborate ruse we've ever seen on the boards.