Blade Runner 2049 (October 6th, 2017) *SPOILERS*

[Khev]

Was it ever established where K got Joi? I've been wondering if it's something he sought out or does the police department essentially issue them to replicants to keep them stable.

It's implied that he purchased her from Wallace Corporation himself and that virtual companions are not provided to all blade runners. When his emanator went off in front of the hooker she said "ah you don't like real girls" suggesting that not all blade runners have such an affinity for them.

 

[crows]

Ooo I wish I had caught this discussion earlier.

I kept thinking in circles about the eminator. Does she really want to go with him? Or is it a subtle way of pushing product? She tells him she wants to go with him but he had to purchase it, right? Thus investing further in the company that made her.



I think the rain scene could be interpreted to show how advanced the programming is. Almost everyone in a relationship can agree that it gives them pleasure to see their partner happy. Knowing that being in the rain is a "new experience" she reacts the way all romantic ladies do in the rain in movies for K.



I think this could also be programming. Most partners feel appreciated when a partner can become jealous so it makes sense Joi would have this built in. An extension of that "emotion" is how Joi kicks the hooker out as a way to make sure that K is only paying attention to her (brand loyalty). Her being rude to the hooker would enforce the idea that she does not want her coming around again and to not try to.

feeling jealousy would serve no purpose and could actually complicate your life,
why would i buy a hologram girl if shes gonna be rude to any female guest i bring? seriously what company would add this?

you guys are missing the entire point of this franchise.... the entire reason for blade runners to exist. this is a universe where robots learn too much and go against their creators or disobey, robots that escape their purpose and run free.... jesus christ guys. the entire reason for blade runners to exist is because AI in this universe get too advanced

why is it so hard to imagine that Joi can do the same? why do you think she was added to a story about a baby born from a robot.... Omg..... why do you think he was written?
what purpose does she serve the story if she didnt evolve feelings? jesus you guys are dense

ask yourselves, what is the purpose of the character or why was she added to the story? You guys think shes just a Sidekick?

In a movie as deep as this??????????

 

[Khev]

ask yourselves, what is the purpose of the character or why was she added to the story?

Joi is a Turing Test of sorts for everyone in the audience. We all get to decide if she has real emotions or is just going through the motions according to her programming. Having a preference one way or the other doesn't make anyone dense. You and I consider her to have real emotions and a heightened level of sentience but why give a hard time to those who see her a different way? Ava in Ex Machina was play acting the whole time so I can see how some people would be equally fascinated if the same held true for Joi. There's no right or wrong.

 

[vortex1310]

feeling jealousy would serve no purpose and could actually complicate your life,
why would i buy a hologram girl if shes gonna be rude to any female guest i bring? seriously what company would add this?

I didn't mean she is *supposed* to be rude to other women. I don't think they'd make a "Fatal Attraction" model, lol. But that a little hint of jealousy is attractive to most people and would make her appear more "human". If your partner never cared about how much time you spent with potential rival then they probably don't care much about keeping you.

you guys are missing the entire point of this franchise.... the entire reason for blade runners to exist. this is a universe where robots learn too much and go against their creators or disobey, robots that escape their purpose and run free.... jesus christ guys. the entire reason for blade runners to exist is because AI in this universe get too advanced

Then Wallace missed the memo along with everyone else because it's implied that there are a ton more replicants now and not only living off-world anymore. K is only hunting the old models, implying the new models are doing fine.

why is it so hard to imagine that Joi can do the same? why do you think she was added to a story about a baby born from a robot.... Omg..... why do you think he was written?
what purpose does she serve the story if she didnt evolve feelings? jesus you guys are dense

I don't appreciate the attitude but I understand you think my previous comments are my only viewpoint on the movie. I feel both ways about the characters. It's a really cool thing that there is so much to digest, like the bridge scene.

ask yourselves, what is the purpose of the character or why was she added to the story? You guys think shes just a Sidekick?

In a movie as deep as this??????????

I think her purpose is exactly this. Generating discussion can be a really fun thing.

 

[crows]

you can choose to believe Joi was nothing but a program. Just like some people believe that Jurassic Park dinos were robots (Thats a real theory)
just like some people choose to believe that there were never real ghosts in ghostbusters but the characters were hallucinating from handling radioactive materials.
Just like people believe that the Real world in the Matrix is a second matrix and humans were never freed. A matrix within the matrix. Zion is just another matrix program.
Or like some people believe that Batman died at the end of the Dark Knight Rises.

You can basically believe anything you want, you are free to believe anything you want of course. I mean, sure, you dont have to believe that K or Joi developed real feelings, they are both just walking laptops no different than your IPhone.

But the movie has enough bread crumbs to show the audience something different. It is not even a matter or right or wrong, Khev is correct. it is a matter of interpreting the movie based on what the plot and the script gives you. I can easily say that Ferris Bueller is not a real person and the entire Ferris Bueller movie is made up in the head of Cameron before he kills himself.

doesnt mean i interpreted the movie the way they intended. but It would be MY interpretation. so you guys are correct that in your interpretation of the movie, Joi and K never went beyond being an advanced version of Windows 10 lol.
but the rest of us were discussing the bread crumbs provided by the movie.

I have nothing against you vortex1310, but we were all talking about joi and snoop comes in the middle of the convo and goes "I Just CANT believe ANYONE would think joi had a soul!!" i mean....dude snoop was implying we are crazy or something.

 

[snoop101]

Those analogies suck. Somebodys butt hurt.

There are the same amount of "bread crumbs" that suggest Joi doesn't have a soul.

 

[xipotec]

I think I feel most sorry for K, his desire to be real felt the most genuine. While Joi knew what she was, and accepted it as her reality.

K on the other hand, tasted it....he held that horse and believe he was the lost son. He believed it so much his baselines went crazy.... which ironically was when he became a human with a soul to me. It’s a wonderful idea. L gains a soul and humanity because he believed he could.

It gets back to Sapper, who says, you don’t believe because you have never seen a miracle.

K is the tragic figure here. He did not really get what he wanted , but died in pursuit of it. He did sacrifice himself , but in the end . He does alone...
Which was the thing Roy was most afraid of in the original.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[crows]

Those analogies suck. Somebodys butt hurt.

There are the same amount of "bread crumbs" that suggest Joi doesn't have a soul.

post them. im serious. post every bread crumb for joi being windows 10, put your money where your mouth is. im serious i CHALLENGE you to post them

you have vaguely argued shes not real
and you have given examples why my bread crumbs are wrong, but i challenge you to post your bread crumbs and make a good compelling case as to why shes not evolving
if you cant Or Wont then i will consider that you didnt have a strong case, and have failed the thread and your fellow boardies

ok, Go:

 

[crows]

I think I feel most sorry for K, his desire to be real felt the most genuine. While Joi knew what she was, and accepted it as her reality.

K on the other hand, tasted it....he held that horse and believe he was the lost son. He believed it so much his baselines went crazy.... which ironically was when he became a human with a soul to me. It’s a wonderful idea. L gains a soul and humanity because he believed he could.

It gets back to Sapper, who says, you don’t believe because you have never seen a miracle.

K is the tragic figure here. He did not really get what he wanted , but died in pursuit of it. He did sacrifice himself , but in the end . He does alone...
Which was the thing Roy was most afraid of in the original.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it crushed my heart when he found out he wasnt the kid or that he was a nobody. that was truly sad and crushing. MORE than his death. his death was not as sad as to realize he didnt meet his dad because he had no dad,

 

[snoop101]

post them. im serious. post every bread crumb for joi being windows 10, put your money where your mouth is. im serious i CHALLENGE you to post them

you have vaguely argued shes not real
and you have given examples why my bread crumbs are wrong, but i challenge you to post your bread crumbs and make a good compelling case as to why shes not evolving
if you cant Or Wont then i will consider that you didnt have a strong case, and have failed the thread and your fellow boardies

ok, Go:

You're one of those guys. So I'm guessing you didn't read any of my previous posts then? I clearly explained why I felt that way, but yeah you're right, it's completely RIDICULOUS to think that Joi might be just a program. Blade Runner and Blade Runner 2049 have never been about ambiguity, it's always been clear cut straight forward answers. For someone to have a differing view point is just plain wrong.

The first and most obvious reason she doesn't IN MY WRONG OPINION (lmao) is the entire bridge scene. Why even show this scene at all if the intention is for Joi to have a soul? Out of all the names Joi could've said, she calls him JOE! She even tells K that it's "been a day" which is exactly what they said to each other in the beginning of the film. That scene to me was meant to be the final revelation of how fu*ked K's relationship with her really was. Another scene as I've mentioned in a previous post was the rooftop scene. She tells K that she's "so happy when she's with him" and he simply replys with "you don't have to say that." As if there's a part of him that knows it's all BS. Her advertisment slogan being the most obvious, "everything you want to see/hear." It's shown very early on in the film. It's showed again about 3 or four times if I'm not mistaken. When the prostitute tells Joi that she's "been inside, and there's not much to see" Is also a subtle clue that Joi isn't as real as even she believes she is.

 

[Username]

post them. im serious. post every bread crumb for joi being windows 10, put your money where your mouth is. im serious i CHALLENGE you to post them

you have vaguely argued shes not real
and you have given examples why my bread crumbs are wrong, but i challenge you to post your bread crumbs and make a good compelling case as to why shes not evolving
if you cant Or Wont then i will consider that you didnt have a strong case, and have failed the thread and your fellow boardies

ok, Go:

Dude, it's hardly possible to read your posts as anything except you shouting at the screen like a little child. "Failed the thread"?
Do you realise that we, as adults, can have two different opinions and it doesn't "hurt" either of us to express them?
Your constant posts demanding people to "prove" Joi was more than the sum of her programming is the reason i seldom participate in threads like this. A few pages back, we got into a really nice harmonic flow of people putting across their arguments either way for why they thought Joi was/wasn't more than she appeared to be.
But you are just ruining it. You are getting upset by people's posts when what you SHOULD be doing is either reading the post and saying: "I never considered that, what an amazing alternate viewpoint! It doesn't change my own mind, but it does make me think about other possibilities! Wow, this movie is DEEP!", or words to that effect.
Instead, you are belittling everyone who hold an differing opinion than your own with a "That's not true! That's impossible!" type of rant.

Please.
Realise, every post about Joi being just a hologram with no way to move beyond her program isn't an attack on you. In the same way that i accept every post about Joi evolving isn't an attack on me.
We should all be allowed to post our opinion without being attacked.
It's all civil discourse, because we all love the movie.
But if you are going to wade in and smash everyone over the head with a frying pan who holds a differing opinion from your own, then that goes against the very spirit of the movie.
It's MEANT to be talked about, MEANT to be argued and discussed.
But not violently. It should be debated with reasoned points. You can't say "I believe X and everyone who believes otherwise is wrong". Please tell me you don't live your life assuming you are always correct. We should always be open to changing our minds, even(Especially), on our most cherished beliefs!
I myself believe Joi is merely software, but there are a few people in this thread who have made compelling arguments for her being more than the sum of her programming. And each time i have read one of those, my heart has rejoiced for the fact there is a new facet of this movie i never saw before!
Having your notions challenged is a good thing!
Re-examine your ideas and if you can see they still hold true, then you will feel good.
But if, on occasion, you can re-examine something you have always held to be true, and see the truth of another viewpoint, then you have grown as a person.
Be formless, shapeless, like Water.

 

[greygoose]

There is no right or wrong view. The reason the film is so good is because each individual takes from it what they want and believe to be true.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

I want to believe she is 'real' and her emotions and responses are so as, being a softie, it adds more weight to that part of the story for me however I strongly believe she was just going through her programming, AI developing dependent on circumstance.

I.e. K buying the emanator sets her programming on the path that she 'chooses' to solely be on that device when K has to leave, as he wants her with him ideally. The AI is merely learning and adapting.


The last billboard Joi we see certainly supports this as she calls him 'joe' etc as others have mentioned.

 

[punisher1974]

Everything everyone says about Joi and K is definetly thought provoking. I like the open discussion and how easily this movies follows suit of the original with the whole is Deckard a replicant. I never thought of Deckard as one and I feel Joi wanted to help K be the man he wanted to be so she did what she could. The more I watch the movie the more details I think I perceive but then that could be my own transference of what I want to see. Love how this movie can still get people to think outside the box in this day and age even though many didn't go see it. Visually stunning and very thought provoking. My favorite movie of last year.

 

[RIDDICK]

Guys, please. Stop talkin' about all these subtle things put into this cinematic equivalent of horse tranquilizer. A turd is still a turd.

 

[crows]

Jurassic Park: the Dinosaurs are not real Dinosaurs



Here is why the Dinos in Jurassic Park are NOT real: In the first movie before the sequels a lot of people thought the dinos were animatronics because of what John Hammond said about his flea Circus and how his business was to trick people, that was the bread crumb that gave the theory weight. why add this scene?
There was no real way to clone dinosaurs so he created an illusion.

The second theory was about how he DID clone animals but it was a mixture of reptiles from our time, NEVER dinosaurs. It is literally Impossible to extract viable DNA from a mosquito like that, it cannot be done. Also DNA decades after hundreds of years. there is no real possible way he got any of the Dinosaur DNA from those mosquitos.
What he did was combine the DNA of a lot of reptiles to create something that "Looked similar to a dinosaur" but was not a dinosaur.
The bread crumb for this is how different the Raptors looked from real raptors. Real raptors were never as big as in the movie, that never happened. Also Dinosaurs had feathers which John Hammond never added.
So Jurassic Park is STILL an illusion like the flea circus. all he did was create creatures he could touch, but they were still a lie.
Thats why the dinosaurs looked so different from real dinosaurs, from the records we have of fossils. the dinosaurs in Jurassic park were created in how we THINK dinosaurs looked like, not how they really looked like
thats why the T Rex didnt have feathers, because John Hammond was creating another fake flea circus, but this time with creatures he could see and touch. Jurassic park is an illusion. those creatures are not cloned from millions of years ago. they are clones of animals from our time.

 

[crows]

The Matrix: Zion is not real

The reason Zion, the real world is not a real place is as simple as knowing that Neo had powers in Zion that were never explained. There is no real reason for Neo to be able to stop the centinels with his mind in the real world. that was the bread crumb that led to hundreds of people to think that zion was never real. people were still plugged to those cocoons but the machines let them believe they were freed.
The machines would never let the humans escape or try to destroy them, that was the whole point of the movie. About how the machines tricked people into believe they could be free but they couldnt'

Another bread crumb for this was that Neo was never anything special, he was never meant to free the world, the Prophecy was a lie, another form of control.
Neo was never meant to free Zion and humanity. he was only meant to reboot the matrix and start over.
That led people to believe that even Zion was fake and the machines were only giving people the illusion of choice, the Architect at the end of RELOADED even talked about this. about the illusion of choice. about how there were levels of survival they were ready to accept. Neo was just a pawn. he never freed himself.
Thats why he could see even when he was blind, no one was ever free.

There was even a theory that even the machines and the programs in the matrix like the Merovingian were not even free, that the machines had their OWN Matrix where they trapped the machines into thinking they had a city but there was no real machine city, there was no real sentinels. that was all also part of the control for energy. they needed to give humans a reason to fight, an enemy to fight so that they would not question the reality of Zion. the machine city was part of the illusion. nothing in the matrix was ever real. everyone was just playing a part in the illusion

 

[ZaCHw117]

Guys, please. Stop talkin' about all these subtle things put into this cinematic equivalent of horse tranquilizer. A turd is still a turd.

 

[punisher1974]

Guys, please. Stop talkin' about all these subtle things put into this cinematic equivalent of horse tranquilizer. A turd is still a turd.

I know you didn't the movie but most of us in here do like it. Its a great movie but not for everyone.

 

[greygoose]

I know you didn't the movie but most of us in here do like it. Its a great movie but not for everyone.

It's above some people.

Movie is a masterpiece.