Bioshock: Infinite

[The Josh]

I think I will play on easy next and then try 1999 mode.

 

[The Josh]

That's an interesting idea.

Spoiler:

So I guess in the end the circle can not be broken because somewhere and in some other time there is a similar cycle happening.....Columbia, Rapture....a man, a utopian city that becomes anything but...and a daughter that needs to be saved. Where will Bioshock take us next? I can't wait to see.

Spoiler:

Just talking with her it makes sense to me. lol It seems like with what everyone has said and how the end could be taken its a never ending cycle. I have no idea but I am excited to see. These games are so damn fun.

 

[VASith]

Started this yesterday. Only about an hour in and it seems I'm on quite the adventure.

 

[Darth Vader]

Jen

Spoiler:

exactly like josh said if u want the long explanation he can pm everything I typed but yes everything's connected "recycled" information but Booker Dewitt/ Comstock is also Andrew Ryan as in beggining of game a lady and cop are doing a police sketch of you aka false Shepard but its a drawing of Andrew Ryan only Andrew Ryan or people with his DNA can use bathysphere when locked down but remember Comstock and Elisabeth use it in endgame. It's infinite the circle will never be broken no matter what.

 

[SwedishHeat]

That's pretty cool.

That makes wonder something though:

Spoiler:

If Elizabeth kills you before you become comstock/Dewitt then how are you related to Ryan? Is it through Elizabeth then? How does Sofia and Eleanor lamb come into the works then? Trying to figure out if Elizabeth was the "lamb" and as someone brought up the last name for Sofia/Eleanor.

I'm pretty sure that

Spoiler:

the Bioshock "universe" operates in a similar fashion to The Matrix. There will always be The One, and in Bioshock Infinite, The One is DeWitt, in Bioshock 1, it's Jack.

I think the whole point of the game was being SUPER meta and saying that even something like Super Mario Bros is Bioshock, any time you have protagonist trying to rescue girl from a castle. . . it's just someone playing their role. The story of the game is just trying to rationalize that cliche.

 

[BadMoon]

Get ready for the battle from hell Keith. . That last one is a pain in the ***.

Tried it once. Need a break and then back at it.

 

[CultofSkaro]

Jen

Spoiler:

exactly like josh said if u want the long explanation he can pm everything I typed but yes everything's connected "recycled" information but Booker Dewitt/ Comstock is also Andrew Ryan as in beggining of game a lady and cop are doing a police sketch of you aka false Shepard but its a drawing of Andrew Ryan only Andrew Ryan or people with his DNA can use bathysphere when locked down but remember Comstock and Elisabeth use it in endgame. It's infinite the circle will never be broken no matter what.

Spoiler:

I really don't think you can say for definite that Comstock/Booker is also Andrew Ryan, and I don't recall them sketching you as Andrew Ryan - that wouldn't make any sense, since, as far as they know, you don't look like Ryan.

They ARE the same piece in each of their respective puzzles, though. And perhaps Ryan is a descendant of the Comstock/Booker of his universe (to explain the Bathysphere thing), and plays a similar role - but isn't the same person. The difference is kind of difficult to communicate lol, but hopefully you get what I'm saying. Either way, it's not explicitly spelt out or explained, so to say that he is DEFINITELY Ryan is misleading, because the game doesn't necessarily say that.

I mean, it could be that, as far as Ryan understands, it operates according the DNA - but, in the bigger picture, it operates for a particular puzzle piece/pieces of that universe. So, when Booker arrives, he's able to use it because he's the same 'piece' as Jack - but ISN'T Jack or Ryan and may not be related in any way, OTHER than him being the same role in the story.

Also a couple of things. How does Booker drowning himself at the end save the day? Surely there are still universes where he DOESN'T drown himself and does become Comstock? Unless him becoming Comstock simply repeats events up to the point where THAT Booker/Comstock drowns himself and so on until they're all wiped out. Or perhaps the fact that the Elizabeths force his head down means that under no circumstances would he have had the option not to do it.

Also, the second thing, really quite minor - the music in the game. God Only Knows, Girls Just Want To Have Fun, Shiny Happy People.....am I right in assuming that knowledge of these songs leaked through tears? 'Cause you hear Girls Just Want To Have Fun, the modern version, coming through a tear in a house. Or are they just included for the fun on it? It's funny how I'm fine with a flying city existing in 1912 but not fine with modern songs existing, lol.

 

[The Josh]

I'm pretty sure that

Spoiler:

the Bioshock "universe" operates in a similar fashion to The Matrix. There will always be The One, and in Bioshock Infinite, The One is DeWitt, in Bioshock 1, it's Jack.

I think the whole point of the game was being SUPER meta and saying that even something like Super Mario Bros is Bioshock, any time you have protagonist trying to rescue girl from a castle. . . it's just someone playing their role. The story of the game is just trying to rationalize that cliche.

Spoiler:

the way this universe is designed it could be the case. It's one giant mystery right now and that's kind of fun.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Spoiler:

Also, the second thing, really quite minor - the music in the game. God Only Knows, Girls Just Want To Have Fun, Shiny Happy People.....am I right in assuming that knowledge of these songs leaked through tears? 'Cause you hear Girls Just Want To Have Fun, the modern version, coming through a tear in a house. Or are they just included for the fun on it? It's funny how I'm fine with a flying city existing in 1912 but not fine with modern songs existing, lol.

Spoiler:

There's a voxophone in that house that talks about how the composer found that tear and heard the songs and was "inspired" by all those songs. So it's pretty much like how Marty McFly ripped off Chuck Berry from BTTF.

 

[Jen]

Jen

Spoiler:

exactly like josh said if u want the long explanation he can pm everything I typed but yes everything's connected "recycled" information but Booker Dewitt/ Comstock is also Andrew Ryan as in beggining of game a lady and cop are doing a police sketch of you aka false Shepard but its a drawing of Andrew Ryan only Andrew Ryan or people with his DNA can use bathysphere when locked down but remember Comstock and Elisabeth use it in endgame. It's infinite the circle will never be broken no matter what.

Yes please...I would enjoy reading your view on this.

Tried it once. Need a break and then back at it.

It took me several tries....on normal.

Spoiler:

I really don't think you can say for definite that Comstock/Booker is also Andrew Ryan, and I don't recall them sketching you as Andrew Ryan - that wouldn't make any sense, since, as far as they know, you don't look like Ryan.

They ARE the same piece in each of their respective puzzles, though. And perhaps Ryan is a descendant of the Comstock/Booker of his universe (to explain the Bathysphere thing), and plays a similar role - but isn't the same person. The difference is kind of difficult to communicate lol, but hopefully you get what I'm saying. Either way, it's not explicitly spelt out or explained, so to say that he is DEFINITELY Ryan is misleading, because the game doesn't necessarily say that.

I mean, it could be that, as far as Ryan understands, it operates according the DNA - but, in the bigger picture, it operates for a particular puzzle piece/pieces of that universe. So, when Booker arrives, he's able to use it because he's the same 'piece' as Jack - but ISN'T Jack or Ryan and may not be related in any way, OTHER than him being the same role in the story.

Also a couple of things. How does Booker drowning himself at the end save the day? Surely there are still universes where he DOESN'T drown himself and does become Comstock? Unless him becoming Comstock simply repeats events up to the point where THAT Booker/Comstock drowns himself and so on until they're all wiped out. Or perhaps the fact that the Elizabeths force his head down means that under no circumstances would he have had the option not to do it.

Also, the second thing, really quite minor - the music in the game. God Only Knows, Girls Just Want To Have Fun, Shiny Happy People.....am I right in assuming that knowledge of these songs leaked through tears? 'Cause you hear Girls Just Want To Have Fun, the modern version, coming through a tear in a house. Or are they just included for the fun on it? It's funny how I'm fine with a flying city existing in 1912 but not fine with modern songs existing, lol.

Spoiler:

In one of the voxophones they talk of hearing music through tears....and how one composer will be Columbia's Mozart..or something like that...so he is hearing contemporary music through tears and basically doing a cover of it and calling it his own in 1918.

 

[Deckard]

Spoiler:

I really don't think you can say for definite that Comstock/Booker is also Andrew Ryan, and I don't recall them sketching you as Andrew Ryan - that wouldn't make any sense, since, as far as they know, you don't look like Ryan.

They ARE the same piece in each of their respective puzzles, though. And perhaps Ryan is a descendant of the Comstock/Booker of his universe (to explain the Bathysphere thing), and plays a similar role - but isn't the same person. The difference is kind of difficult to communicate lol, but hopefully you get what I'm saying. Either way, it's not explicitly spelt out or explained, so to say that he is DEFINITELY Ryan is misleading, because the game doesn't necessarily say that.

I mean, it could be that, as far as Ryan understands, it operates according the DNA - but, in the bigger picture, it operates for a particular puzzle piece/pieces of that universe. So, when Booker arrives, he's able to use it because he's the same 'piece' as Jack - but ISN'T Jack or Ryan and may not be related in any way, OTHER than him being the same role in the story.

Also a couple of things. How does Booker drowning himself at the end save the day? Surely there are still universes where he DOESN'T drown himself and does become Comstock? Unless him becoming Comstock simply repeats events up to the point where THAT Booker/Comstock drowns himself and so on until they're all wiped out. Or perhaps the fact that the Elizabeths force his head down means that under no circumstances would he have had the option not to do it.

Also, the second thing, really quite minor - the music in the game. God Only Knows, Girls Just Want To Have Fun, Shiny Happy People.....am I right in assuming that knowledge of these songs leaked through tears? 'Cause you hear Girls Just Want To Have Fun, the modern version, coming through a tear in a house. Or are they just included for the fun on it? It's funny how I'm fine with a flying city existing in 1912 but not fine with modern songs existing, lol.

Spoiler:

You need to explore more. There is indeed a hidden area where a woman from the raffle is giving a police sketch artist your description but the artist has drawn a picture of a man that resembles Ryan to which she replies it looks right.

And the music comes through the tears, correct. THis is explained in the music store across from Liz's mother's graveyard. It's actually Jerimiah Fink's brother Albert who is taking the music and giving it slight rewrites to make it current. I love the Tears for Fears song Everybody wants to Rule the World when she opens the tear in her tower to the 80s.

Theres no other universes where Comstock exist now unless its a loop. Booker was Booker in infinite universes before the game started, the implication is we all exist in countless universe the way there was Evil Kirk on Star Trek etc. We can be differant people in these as indicated by Comstock or the fact that Lutece is a man in one, woman in another. In the Prime universe we and our actual real history exist in, Booker also lives. Here he makes a decisioun that creates a paradox and several new universes are also created for his new persona Comstock. The end possibilites are :

1. Killing himself created yet another paradox and time, in order to correct itself, essentially respawned him at a place where he would be back to normal as if the Comstock paradox never occured. He lives on as Booker with Anna and is happy.

2. Booker is caught in a time loop and everytime he kills himself it resets time and he keeps playing out the same events that lead in a circle back to Columbia. Will the circle be unbroken? Kinda you know, like a video game..

3. "The mind of the subject will struggle desperately to create memories where none exist." - Lutece (the game opens with this quote along with Liz asking Booker if he fears God. He says no, he fears Liz.

a. Anna has "inceptioned" Booker by putting the idea that everything is ok, so when the loop resets he is now out.

b. Booker is having a lobotomy

c. Booker has woken up from a dream

Another possibilty dealing with that quote is with Rapture

It's possible that Rapture is a "wish" created by Elizabeth in a moment of need. She needs to stop Songbird, she knows water harms him. She simply thought to herself, same city, same people, ideas, but underwater, and as a result Rapture was created specifcally by her in that moment to drown Songbird. However this is another paradox like Booker created, a new universe that didn't exist before, as a result of that place now physically existing, it fills itself with a history or memories. That explains the similar story of a man and his child, plasmids and vigors etc, and in this universe the "Booker" has become Andrew Ryan where as Elizabeth was fractured into Little Sisters etc. So Ryan is simply another universe version of Booker but not like Booker/Comstock, more like the Luteces.

Either way it existing creates part of a new loop as well, because even though it's in some version of the future, Fink has somehow aquired tech from Rapture regarding big daddies that allowed him to build the Songbird.

 

[BadMoon]

Is this even possible on hard? I mean I have fought about 5 waves of patriots. This is ****ing impossible. I literally run out of ammo.

 

[Deckard]

Yea the last patriots are tough, what vigors do you have upgraded, and do you have all the hats/gear? I can give you some really good combos that will help.

 

[HPGR_Thrawn]

Finished the game tonight after playing through in 3 days. I gotta say, this thing blows Bioshock 1 & 2 literally out of the water (and into the air)!

Loved the story, even if it is taking me a while to figure out all of the twists and details. I'll take stuff like this over COD every day.

 

[BadMoon]

Yea the last patriots are tough, what vigors do you have upgraded, and do you have all the hats/gear? I can give you some really good combos that will help.

I appreciate that. I'm taking a break until tomorrow. Tought I would polish this one up tonight. Yeah Jen was right. Ending is tough.

 

[Deckard]

Spoiler:

Possession will really help if you have it advanced and coupled with blood to salt. You can put down possession traps where the patriots land/come aboard and work there way twoards the power cell. This will posess upto 3 guys at a time, 1 patriot and 2 guys, the 2 normal guys will immediately kill themselves while the patriots distract each other. Take some potshots with the sniper rifle from the observation deck until you drop one, move down on the skyline take his chain gun, wipe out the others and reset your traps. Remember to keep the Songbird hitting the Zepplins asap too. Don't waste him on the patriots.

Return to Sender is also good to keep handy to defend yourself against the patriots if you start to run low on ammo. If you have enough salts, you can put down Murder of Crow traps in addition to the Possesion traps to really create havok. If they're upgraded all the way, they keep forming new crow traps from the dead enemies so they recycle themselves and you get maximum bang for your salt. Just not very effective against the patriots.

And remember to aim for the gears, it really does make a differance.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Does anyone have either the Limited Guide and/or the "Art of" book? And are they worthwhile purchases? I'm mostly just interested in diving headfirst into reference and whatnot.

 

[Jen]

I have the limited guide. I like it...has some beautiful artwork in it and is a good guide for finding things and strategizing against certain enemies. It's a great book for that....if you want more art, I would get the art book. The strategy guide has some...but mostly it's still shots from the game.

 

[Jen]

I appreciate that. I'm taking a break until tomorrow. Tought I would polish this one up tonight. Yeah Jen was right. Ending is tough.

Sorry you weren't able to finish tonight. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the ending.

Deckard gave some great advice tips.

Spoiler:

And utilize the Song bird. I used it on the zeppelins but also had it help me on the ground when it was getting too crazy for me. Those attacking on the ground directly at the battery thing are your biggest threat, according to the guide. Also, if you haven't destroyed all the zeppelins you can target for the Song bird, they will keep sending down more patriots and Vox for you to fight. Might be worth having Songbird attack on the ground while you hop on the zipline And make sure you got all the zeppelins you need to take out. I think there is a white one that comes up on the right side ( if you are facing the bow of Comstock's zeppelin) that you can only see from certain vantage points...don't think you can see it from the ground.

 

[SwedishHeat]

I have the limited guide. I like it...has some beautiful artwork in it and is a good guide for finding things and strategizing against certain enemies. It's a great book for that....if you want more art, I would get the art book. The strategy guide has some...but mostly it's still shots from the game.

Cool, thanks for the tip. I am just trying to gauge whether the book is a cash grab or if it's actually useful, but I guess that would all depend on how into the property you are. But, I'll probably just end up buying both cuz I'm a sucker.

My task at hand is to make my own Elizabeth figure, so I'm in research mode right now.