Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Darth Snoopy]

View attachment 389697

O my GAWD! It's just a movie. A movie about space wizards. It is not that deep.

This.

 

[Spazz]

Ah who cares. What's the worst that's gonna happen? Not a damn thing. the next star wars movie won't make nearly as much money as the last few and you already got fans hating on this new franchise. So what if they push some agenda? let em. Not the first time this happened and won't be the last. The toys aren't selling the merch is dry so obviously it's not a big deal. Never was. it's a movie. Either they learn or they keep making it. Either way the damage is done and fans don't like it so who cares if they keep pushing the agenda. Fans don't appreciate it.

Who cares about Star Wars? Or who cares about chauvinistic propaganda? Nothing has intrinsic worth, but lots of people care about Star Wars because they love it, and lots of people care about chauvinistic propaganda because it grants power to bigots.

What's the worst that's going to happen to Star Wars? That already happened. TLJ was awful. What's the worst that can happen as a result of a chauvinistic philosophy? Authoritarianism. We're already seeing the beginnings of it.

Let's take a really obvious example: The #METOO movement, where we're told that all women should be believed when they make accusations toward someone, and a person's career should end as a result of public scrutiny. Cultural Maoism used to do the same thing to people. Right now, you could lose your job if you're successful, and a crazy person that you dated from your past accuses you of sexual misconduct. No burden of proof, no court of law... You're just done.

Is this a problem? Well, coincidentally Margret Atwood (who wrote The Handmaid's Tale, which was turned into a series, the director of which is being considered for a directing role of a Star Wars project) seems to think so:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/am-i-a-bad-feminist/article37591823/

Third wave feminism has gotten so out of hand, that even feminists are concerned. That should bother you, not as a man but as a human being. The feminism promoted within the subtext of TLJ was 3rd Wave identity-based Feminism. The Post-Modernist kind.

 

[Spazz]

This.

Says the moderator of a movie discussion thread? If movies aren't important, what are you doing with your time here?

 

[jye4ever]

Sounds like that horrible movie The 5th Wave.

Yes all those men that lost their careers were 100% innocent they all just decided not to fight it.

 

[Spazz]

Spazz says i’m weak because I can’t imagine a world where you obey no one.

Just wait until he has to hide a Hot Toys or Sideshow purchase from his wife lol

Nope. Again, I'm not weak so I found a partner who shares the same interests, who (like me) also isn't weak. We don't tell each other what to do, and we can be honest with each other. You hide things from your wife? Nope, no weakness there...

 

[jye4ever]

Nope. Again, I'm not weak so I found a partner who shares the same interests, who (like me) also isn't weak. We don't tell each other what to do, and we can be honest with each other. You hide things from your wife? Nope, no weakness there...

Not arguing this one you’re right lol

 

[Darth Snoopy]

Says the moderator of a movie discussion thread? If movies aren't important, what are you doing with your time here?

Well I'm not whining, bitching or moaning about a movie ad nauseam for one thing.

 

[Wor-Gar]

This thread reminds me of this...

Then this happens....

 

[Adolfo]

ITS ALL TLJs FAULT!...and its scum & Villainy masters who created it...bottom line

 

[Spazz]

Well I'm not whining, bitching or moaning about a movie ad nauseam for one thing.

Technically I'm whining, bitching and moaning about the subtext of a movie, because it's propaganda that leads to authoritarianism. Were it not for the propaganda within the film, I'd have stopped caring a couple of days after I watched it.

Authoritarian propaganda is worth the attention, particularly when it's shoe-horned into a cornerstone of popular culture by a large multinational corporation. Why? Read Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent. Disney is trying to indoctrinate people. That shouldn't even be controversial. You're a teacher, right? Don't teachers teach the same ideas over and over again, ad nauseam? I guess I need to find myself a captive audience...

 

[Adolfo]

Ghost Rider 2 > TLJ

 

[jye4ever]

Technically I'm whining, bitching and moaning about the subtext of a movie, because it's propaganda that leads to authoritarianism. Were it not for the propaganda within the film, I'd have stopped caring a couple of days after I watched it.

Authoritarian propaganda is worth the attention, particularly when it's shoe-horned into a cornerstone of popular culture by a large multinational corporation. Why? Read Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent. Disney is trying to indoctrinate people. That shouldn't even be controversial. You're a teacher, right? Don't teachers teach the same ideas over and over again, ad nauseam? I guess I need to find myself a captive audience...

Put the books down take off the tin foil hat and come out with your hands up.

 

[Spazz]

Put the books down take off the tin foil hat and come out with your hands up.

There's no conspiracy. It is a proven fact that there is editorial control over the cultural products of multinational corporations, for the sake of "public relations". Subservient people who don't read books assume that every criticism of authority is driven by paranoia. Why? Because they like being ruled. What's wrong with people telling you what to do all the time?

 

[Wor-Gar]

Jye dragging spazz back to the fray.

 

[jye4ever]

There's no conspiracy. It is a proven fact that there is editorial control over the cultural products of multinational corporations, for the sake of "public relations". Subservient people who don't read books assume that every criticism of authority is driven by paranoia. Why? Because they like being ruled. What's wrong with people telling you what to do all the time?

Actually i’m happy you pointed that out I was trying to come up with a good reason why I went to watch JL for a 2nd time now I can just claim I was forced to by the WB corporation.

Oh yeah and when I drink and drive and kill someone i’m going to say Sam Adams made me do it that should work!

Thank You!

 

[Spazz]

Jye dragging spazz back to the fray.

Story of my life...

 

[jye4ever]

Jye dragging spazz back to the fray.

I’m more like a Spider my posts are very sticky lol

That’s Khev with his Fox analogy dragging Snikt into the slaughterhouse.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I’m more like a Spider my posts are very sticky lol

*this post is for Green Goblin.

 

[Spazz]

Actually i’m happy you pointed that out I was trying to come up with a good reason why I went to watch JL for a 2nd time now I can just claim I was forced to by the WB corporation.

Oh yeah and when I drink and drive and kill someone i’m going to say Sam Adams made me do it that should work!

Thank You!

You went to see JL a 2nd time for the same reason you liked TLJ... A glutton for punishment? As for whether someone should be held accountable for persuading others to do things, I don't believe in "accountability", so much as "cause". There is no justice. When ideologues convince gullible people to do stupid things, do they "cause" the idiotic behavior? Partly. It's a relationship between the ideologue and those who subscribe to it.

However, while I disagree with feminists, I'm fond of freedom of speech specifically because you need to consider any idea in order to falsify it, and your own understanding of the world. If you care about thinking and knowledge, you should care about freedom of expression. So, while I dislike dumb ideas and the ideologues who spout them, I'd never punish an ideologue for convincing gullible people to do dumb things. It's the stupidity that we need to worry about.

When people say, "Why do you care that Star Wars was propaganda? So what if it's spreading an authoritarian philosophy?" that is the naive attitude of someone who's never experienced or witnessed systemic brutality. If everyone had that attitude, you would have no freedom. Then you'd care.

 

[ironwez20]

Who cares about Star Wars? Or who cares about chauvinistic propaganda? Nothing has intrinsic worth, but lots of people care about Star Wars because they love it, and lots of people care about chauvinistic propaganda because it grants power to bigots.

What's the worst that's going to happen to Star Wars? That already happened. TLJ was awful. What's the worst that can happen as a result of a chauvinistic philosophy? Authoritarianism. We're already seeing the beginnings of it.

Let's take a really obvious example: The #METOO movement, where we're told that all women should be believed when they make accusations toward someone, and a person's career should end as a result of public scrutiny. Cultural Maoism used to do the same thing to people. Right now, you could lose your job if you're successful, and a crazy person that you dated from your past accuses you of sexual misconduct. No burden of proof, no court of law... You're just done.

Is this a problem? Well, coincidentally Margret Atwood (who wrote The Handmaid's Tale, which was turned into a series, the director of which is being considered for a directing role of a Star Wars project) seems to think so:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/am-i-a-bad-feminist/article37591823/

Third wave feminism has gotten so out of hand, that even feminists are concerned. That should bother you, not as a man but as a human being. The feminism promoted within the subtext of TLJ was 3rd Wave identity-based Feminism. The Post-Modernist kind.

You got all this from a movie meant to sell toys? that's what it comes down to? Selling toys. I don't like the last jedi but one could look at revenge of the sith and say
"Hey. This movie seems like it's representing the desturction of christianity. A man in black robs who works with the devil killing an entire race of people who practice a religion. Seems like these asholes are trying to push there propaganda on me"
Now yea tlj has heavy feminist theme but I don't think they are freaking world ending like you claim.