Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[pturtle]

From twitter.

Theres a nice Hayter vs Kiefer debate going on in the comments section thats giving me a good laugh.

 

[Jameson Rook]

Great commentary, especially on Ground Zeroes and the state of the canon for the past twelve years. MGS 4 was an ugly child of sorts, but regardless, it tied up all loose ends and actually gave Kojima a golden opportunity to leave the series and work on some other games.

I still hope for some good things to come out of TPP (eg. retconing Big Boss's heroic status from MGS 4, and returning him to the villain that he was supposed to be). But, there's definitely a decline in the quality of writing, and aberrant lack of breaking fourth walls that haven't been present since MGS 2. The whole revenge spiel is grossly overplayed in MGS V, since Big Boss already has enough premise to become a monster at this point in time; from being screwed over so many times by the government, being betrayed by Zero, and having his cells used for gene experimentations in Les Enfants Terribles - all of which, took place before the events of Peace Walker.

It's absurdities like these that really prevent MGS from being taken as serious gaming literature. I know that a lot of people like to rip on the convolution of MGS 2. But, in comparison, MGS 4 and every game that followed from it, added considerably more convolution to the series canon.

Which was why Rising worked so well. It broke free of the continuity constraints and is now the Ghost Babel of MGS games. Ghost Babel was kinda sorta canon but at the same time it was also a "what if?" sequel to Metal Gear 2.

Like I said before though, I just don't dwell into canon as much post-MGS3. Kojima should be commended trying to literally deconstruct the canon of the series in MGS2 to give way for a bigger message but now he's doing a 180 by trying way too hard to adhere to an already shaky series mythology as it is.

George Weidman of SuperBunnyHop is definitely a talent to keep an eye on. I can't imagine trying to come up with intelligible sentences in a Revengeance playtrough, let alone an honest analysis of the state of the series.

 

[Solidus]

Which was why Rising worked so well. It broke free of the continuity constraints and is now the Ghost Babel of MGS games. Ghost Babel was kinda sorta canon but at the same time it was also a "what if?" sequel to Metal Gear 2.

Like I said before though, I just don't dwell into canon as much post-MGS3. Kojima should be commended trying to literally deconstruct the canon of the series in MGS2 to give way for a bigger message but now he's doing a 180 by trying way too hard to adhere to an already shaky series mythology as it is.

George Weidman of SuperBunnyHop is definitely a talent to keep an eye on. I can't imagine trying to come up with intelligible sentences in a Revengeance playtrough, let alone an honest analysis of the state of the series.

It's apparent that Kojima's philosophy to MGS has changed drastically over the course of the past six years, since the release of MGS 4. Like you've said, we're now looking at a game that's striving toward a strange, story-based entry, rather than breaking the fourth wall that Kojima has been renowned for. That's not to say that there won't be any surprises in store for MGS V. But, Kojima is stepping into familiar territory, because the themes of revenge and violence have been very much overplayed in television, movies, and even other video games.

Also, I have to say, that I'm very disappointed that MGS V has been fairly monotone in its presentation, thus far. We were treated to a Red Band spoiler trailer of revenge and damnation last year, which was followed by similar spoiler trailer of revenge and damnation at this year's E3 - in addition to a prequel (Ground Zeroes), that showed how the revenge and damnation got started . That's not to say, that the themes themselves are poor in taste. It's just the way how everything is being presented as so, "in your face". "Hey, this game is dark, it has gore, and weird sex". Yeah, I get that, and I don't need to be reminded about it whenever there's new trailer. It's getting very redundant, and it goes without saying, that a MGS game should not be handled this sloppily.

All of this just really confirms my belief, that MGS V should have been an independent project (as was originally intended with Project Ogre), instead of an actual game within the MGS canon.

 

[GasparZizou]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't MGR been cast in and out of canon once or twice? As far as I know the last news was that MGR was in canon, was it not?

Still don't see why the tone and themes are so non-MGS, they're not, the themes and tone are perfectly coherent with a franchise like MGS and it's history, if you think about it, topics like child soldiers, torture and rape have been presented in a very simplistic manner, these are not new to the franchise, I'm glad they're taking a blunt and rough approach to these topics.

There's nothing wrong with having one darker game in the franchise, long running lores often deal with different tonalities in different story arcs, either comics, movies or games.

Also, for all we know project Ogre was MGSV from the beginning.

I feel that implying; this is more "MGS" than that, or that is less "MGS" than these, it's like saying Daniel Craig is any less of a 007 for being blond and more violent.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't MGR been cast in and out of canon once or twice? As far as I know the last news was that MGR was in canon, was it not?

Still don't see why the tone and themes are so non-MGS, they're not, the themes and tone are perfectly coherent with a franchise like MGS and it's history, if you think about it, topics like child soldiers, torture and rape have been presented in a very simplistic manner, these are not new to the franchise, I'm glad they're taking a blunt and rough approach to these topics.

There's nothing wrong with having one darker game in the franchise, long running lores often deal with different tonalities in different story arcs, either comics, movies or games.

Also, for all we know project Ogre was MGSV from the beginning.

I feel that implying; this is more "MGS" than that, or that is less "MGS" than these, it's like saying Daniel Craig is any less of a 007 for being blond and more violent.

The more more opinions I see about this game (good or bad) the more I think it could be one of the best videogames EVER, that is not good if the game turns out to be THAT good... then I will have problems to give a good objective opinion about it

 

[Solidus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't MGR been cast in and out of canon once or twice? As far as I know the last news was that MGR was in canon, was it not?

Still don't see why the tone and themes are so non-MGS, they're not, the themes and tone are perfectly coherent with a franchise like MGS and it's history, if you think about it, topics like child soldiers, torture and rape have been presented in a very simplistic manner, these are not new to the franchise, I'm glad they're taking a blunt and rough approach to these topics.

There's nothing wrong with having one darker game in the franchise, long running lores often deal with different tonalities in different story arcs, either comics, movies or games.

Also, for all we know project Ogre was MGSV from the beginning.

I feel that implying; this is more "MGS" than that, or that is less "MGS" than these, it's like saying Daniel Craig is any less of a 007 for being blond and more violent.

It wasn't. Project Ogre was initially intended to be a new IP. And I actually like Daniel Craig as Bond .

 

[GasparZizou]

We don't know that for a fact, I have more reasons to believe PO was just a lid on MGSV, either that or something unrelated to MGSV.

Daniel Craig is awesome.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

I think Project Ogre was always MGSV, typical Kojima



(I love Craig too)



Kinda late... but I hope you all had a nice 4th of July

 

[GasparZizou]

Oh Britta

Man you have the best taste in the ladees.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

Oh Britta

Man you have the best taste in the ladees.

 

[Solidus]

We don't know that for a fact, I have more reasons to believe PO was just a lid on MGSV, either that or something unrelated to MGSV.

Daniel Craig is awesome.

But, we do, Gaspar-kun. Is a fact. Y u doubt?

"There are a lot of real world issues I want to address, but the reason I kept making the MGS saga and its sequels is that it allowed me to explore my ideas", said Kojima.

But now I'm starting a new series, focusing on new set of issues. It'll probably be different to what MGS addressed. Of course, I'm turning 50 now, so if I'm going to approach new topics, it might be something more on a human level, like the concept of love, or rearing a family, things of that nature".

https://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=477242

Also, notice "love and rearing a family" . Everything that he said in 2012 pointed to a new IP. I think it's typical that Konami eventually made him incorporate Project Ogre into MGS V.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

Well...


I would never take anything this guy says for a fact he is Kojima after all

 

[GasparZizou]

But, we do, Gaspar-kun. Is a fact. Y u doubt?

"There are a lot of real world issues I want to address, but the reason I kept making the MGS saga and its sequels is that it allowed me to explore my ideas", said Kojima.

But now I'm starting a new series, focusing on new set of issues. It'll probably be different to what MGS addressed. Of course, I'm turning 50 now, so if I'm going to approach new topics, it might be something more on a human level, like the concept of love, or rearing a family, things of that nature".


https://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=477242

Dis sound like MGS V? Huhhhh???

Also, notice "love and rearing a family" . Everything that he said in 2012 pointed to a new IP. I think it's typical that Konami eventually made him incorporate Project Ogre into MGS V.

I never saw that one : my apologies Solidus, you deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I kept reading back then that Project Ogre was about open-world and taboo topics and such, so part of me thinks it was all a ruse from the beginning.

I don't know, I remember in 2011 the initial words were about open-world and taboo, so I doubt he turned PO into MGSV.

Either PO was MGSV from the beginning, or PO was unrelated to MGSV and was put on pause or killed ever since in favor of MGSV.

Of course, under Konami's command.

Well...


I would never take anything this guy says for a fact he is Kojima after all

If there's a fact, that'd the be it

 

[Jameson Rook]

What are you babbling about Gaspar? I LOVE Craig as Bond!

As for Project Ogre was MGS from the beginning, sorry but that's not true. In fact, Kojima was quoted as saying:

"I'm sick & tired of people keep asking me like 'is that project Ogre?' here in Seattle everyday. Project Ogre is what the project that Ogre appears. Ogre does not appear in MGS Ground Zeroes trailer."

 

[Solidus]

I think Project Ogre was always MGSV, typical Kojima



(I love Craig too)



Kinda late... but I hope you all had a nice 4th of July

Yeah, some bad ass kids were blowing illegal fireworks outside my apartment. And then the cops showed up and made some arrests .

 

[GasparZizou]

What are you babbling about Gaspar? I LOVE Craig as Bond!

As for Project Ogre was MGS from the beginning, sorry but that's not true. In fact, Kojima was "tired of people asking him about Project Ogre being MGS, it's NOT MGS!".

Actually, he only "denied" GZ to be PO, not TPP.

And I love Craig, don't worry I was merely pointing out how blunt and rough Craig was compared to previous 007, but he's just as Bond as any.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

Yeah, some bad ass kids were blowing illegal fireworks outside my apartment. And then the cops showed up and made some arrests .

Fatman copycats?

What are you babbling about Gaspar? I LOVE Craig as Bond!

As for Project Ogre was MGS from the beginning, sorry but that's not true. In fact, Kojima was quoted as saying:

Sure...


..and Raiden was made to appeal to schoolgirls not to be analogous to the MGS1 fans... its very hard for me to trust this guy

 

[Solidus]

Actually, he only "denied" GZ to be PO, not TPP.

And I love Craig, don't worry I was merely pointing out how blunt and rough Craig was compared to previous 007, but he's just as Bond as any.

Daniel Craig gets a bad rap for the silliest of reasons. "oh, but his hair isn't naturally black!", "he's a few inches shorter than Bond's actual height!", "he's not that handsome!" . The fact is, that he portrayed the closest Bond to Connery on screen. He's simply magnificent, in my opinion.

Fatman copycats?

The booms were so loud, I thought my windows were going to shatter.

 

[Dead-Man]

The Entire Plot for MGS 5 the Phantom Pain Leaked!

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/report-entire-plot-for-metal-gear-solid-v-the-phan/1100-6421093/

 

[pturtle]

The Entire Plot for MGS 5 the Phantom Pain Leaked!

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/report-entire-plot-for-metal-gear-solid-v-the-phan/1100-6421093/

Holy crap!!!

Must resist!!!!