Headplay recast Rainman's monkey sculpt again!

[Ironman1188]

Their rights weren't removed from this site, only the thread was deleted. They/he/she has chosen not to respond to accusations made in threads such as this one. And HP was supposedly promoting those sculpts on Facebook, though you can only see it if you befriend them.

given that they keep getting accused more often then not by the same folk....maybe they just decided not to fight it...doesn't mean they are guilty....just means that prolly don't care and would prefer not t even get into internet squabbles...like this has become...

*shrug

It was widely known that there was a major language barrier with the headplay folks.
Imagine being airdropped into the middle of China, surrounded by dozens, maybe hundreds of Chinese and shouting accusations at them. As none of them speak your language you simply look like a babbling idiot. Doesn't mean you are, its just an appearance that would be wrong of them to rush into.

All of this has made me wonder though:
What was the fight like when the Camaro and the Firebird were both on the market?

 

[karamazov80]

They got the gist of those arguments in the past, though, with the TLJ sculpt. And I believe that one of the primary accusers (Kato) is based out of Hong Kong, and could speak the language. The title of this thread seems pretty straightforward to me, and should be easy enough for those folks to find. . .

It's like that old Simpsons episode (29 seconds in).

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAe3FpLGvBY[/ame]

 

[YANOULI]

Its a thread of hypocrisy.
Sculpt an unlicensed head = OK.
Be accused of recasting said head = NG
Folks will claim that its two different things if a sculptor [we'll use Rainman as an example since the thread revolces around him] puts in hard work on an unlicensed sculpt and someone recasts it then if someone creates a 3D sculpt and sells it. Wouldn't both be copyright no-nos?
And, technically, the customizer is stealing from an artist everytime he sculpts an unlicensed head.

I completly desagree with you.

Didn´t matter how many hours a sculptor take to make a HS.

If he didn´t had to pay the rights to the owner, why he had to receive any credit when someone recast their work?

But Rainmain can´t even complain, in my opinion... His work is stealing the rights from FOX, and the recast is stealing what from him? Is he really the owner of the HS?

Is a steal from a stealer...

I don't get why you guys are pursuing this no license thing, we've already lost one sculptors future offerings because of this attitude and if it carries on we may lose others.
If it's so terrible to buy custom headsculpts why are you guys even on this site?

I didn't see any problems with unlicensed sculpts when Ironman1188 was flooding the interest section with requests for heads to be made.

The one and only issue should be don't buy recasts of sculpts by our fellow members.
I don't have the money to spend $150-200 on a Hot Toys/etc figure, so i need sculptors to offer custom sculpts. Alot of the time they're better than the licensed offering anyway.

 

[karamazov80]

Actually, Ironman just seems to be defending the recasting process, because he likes and advocates the creation of custom sculpts, right?

 

[YANOULI]

I don't know, it's not the way i read his previous words.

All i know is he's saying custom sculpts are wrong because they're not licensed but still started several threads trying to drum up interest for custom sculpts he wanted.

 

[jungle jom]

That's not what I got reading his posts. I think you guys might be mistaken about what he is trying to say, but I could be wrong.

 

[karamazov80]

I don't know, it's not the way i read his previous words.

All i know is he's saying custom sculpts are wrong because they're not licensed but still started several threads trying to drum up interest for custom sculpts he wanted.

That's why I assume he supports recasting. Otherwise, it is the same kind of hypocrisy he is accusing others of (treating new custom sculpts and recasts as different in terms of acceptability).

His argument, which is the same as many others here, seems to be that the two issues (unlicensed sculpts and recasting others' works) are no different in terms of acceptability. It discounts the right of the custom community to make any ethical distinctions between impinging on the intellectual property of an actor/character and recreating another artist's work without permission, and seems to be based on some interpretation of law (though, in my reading of the apparent law, the determination of what is allowable in a newly created custom sculpt is far from obvious).

 

[Ironman1188]

Actually, Ironman just seems to be defending the recasting process, because he likes and advocates the creation of custom sculpts, right?

That's not what I got reading his posts. I think you guys might be mistaken about what he is trying to say, but I could be wrong.

No, you're not wrong. I want as many sculpts as I can get. The view of "recasters' varies from forum to forum.
I'm not saying custom sculpts are wrong.
I'm not saying recasting is wrong.
I am saying that if you want to banish, attack or delete a recaster it should be considered that he's no more wrong than the guy selling the unlicnesed product in the first place.
Let's be honest. You want a sculpt in your collection. Who knows, maybe its an all time favorite character or actor. Maybe its the one that completes a set you've put together. Sculpter "A" makes a sculpt of _________ and puts it up in a sales thread. Only 10 will be made and they will cost $165 painted or $105 unpainted undrilled. You happen to have been at work when that thread was started and by the time you see it the 10 slots are filled and there's already a waitlist 4 deep. You're screwed. You missed out. The sculptor only wants to make 10 and keep it a limited edition. Your set remains incomplete.
Six months later you happen to be glossing thru 1:6 ebay auctions and HOLY COW!!!! There's an auction for a sculpt of _________!! Its prepainted and ready to fit your standard body. Cost? $30
Its similar to the earlier one but, then again, how different can the same person really look.
Is it a recast? Or is it that someone saw the gap for said sculpt being wanted by more than 10 people and capitalized on it.
Can everyone here say they have NEVER bought a sculpt that, even in retrospect, might have been a recast?
I don't think so.

Do I recast? NO [but as I stated I do have a set of prototypes that might show up eventually. I state this only for those that would be on the ledge ready to jump all over me should it actually happen and want to cast me in a hypocritical light.]

Do I condemn those who do? NO

Do I think its wrong for a sculptor to sculpt without a license? NO

Do I think its wrong to say one is different from the other? YES

Do I, from years of experience, think that the evidence put forth here in this forum is purely circumstancial? YES

I hope that clears up where I stand. My sincerest apologies if my earlier posts [that weren't deleted] were unclear.

 

[Ironman1188]

I don't get why you guys are pursuing this no license thing, we've already lost one sculptors future offerings because of this attitude and if it carries on we may lose others.
If it's so terrible to buy custom headsculpts why are you guys even on this site?

I didn't see any problems with unlicensed sculpts when Ironman1188 was flooding the interest section with requests for heads to be made.
The one and only issue should be don't buy recasts of sculpts by our fellow members.
I don't have the money to spend $150-200 on a Hot Toys/etc figure, so i need sculptors to offer custom sculpts. Alot of the time they're better than the licensed offering anyway.

If you look closely in the interest section you will see FAR more requests for unlicensed sculpts than those made by me. Most by people offering sculpts that they are willing to or about to make.
I don't have the money to spend on most of the parted out HT sculpts I want. You should compare the cost of a HT sculpt to the custom head, then the cost of getting a painter [unless you do it yourself], then there's shipping, the extra charge to have it drilled out to fit your body of choice.....
When you compare those costs, offerings from Headplay, Loading Toys, etc.....look pretty good pricewise.

 

[Entropy]

The mind that thinks painting and selling a portrait of a celebrity is exactly the same as someone else selling photocopies of that portrait is not a rational one, imo.

Regardless, the owner/operator of this message board has made his stance very clear on recasters. nuff said.

 

[Ironman1188]

Thats an oversimplification to say the least.

 

[thenammagazine]

You make good points but here is where it falls short. HP is not coming up with their own style or interpretation of RM's work. They are recasting something, throwing some paint on it, and calling it their own (or not giving credit where credit is due). License or no license Rainman does his HS from scratch and that is art and thats what his fans are buying.

The likeness was stolen to begin with. If Rainman wanted to go at them, it'd be a thief calling out a thief. He has no more right to the likeness in the unauthorized sculpts produced for sale than they do to recast them.

Their rights weren't removed from this site, only the thread was deleted. They/he/she has chosen not to respond to accusations made in threads such as this one. And HP was supposedly promoting those sculpts on Facebook, though you can only see it if you befriend them.

I can't say I blame them/him given all the trolling the hypocritical custom fanboys are doing (and lamely getting away with).

 

[El Calvo]

The mind that thinks painting and selling a portrait of a celebrity is exactly the same as someone else selling photocopies of that portrait is not a rational one, imo.

Regardless, the owner/operator of this message board has made his stance very clear on recasters. nuff said.

 

[bperry]

Originally Posted by Entropy
"The mind that thinks painting and selling a portrait of a celebrity is exactly the same as someone else selling photocopies of that portrait is not a rational one, imo.

Regardless, the owner/operator of this message board has made his stance very clear on recasters. nuff said."

Well, the fact is that not many custom artists here can really just copy a sculpt from photos excatly, some call it "style"or "personal interpretation. However you wanna call it, they are trying their best to get the likeness of a specific individual. Why do you think rainman always titles his interest thread such as"blood moon", or "demon's head"? Remember what happened to a Dexter custom project here a while ago speaking of license?

 

[ifrack]

Lot to read. Has anyone actually connected the OFFICIAL headplay company with the recast heads. You can call yourself anything on ebay,,, wether it is Head_Play Headplay. I know there is a language barrier but some member out there speaks korean.

 

[Cheungkinmen]

Reading these kinds of comments are very discouraging...

 

[karamazov80]

JOhnny, I wouldn't worry too much about that. Some folks just like to stir ____ up, misuse terms they don't seem to fully understand like "hypocrisy," and are themselves happy to ditch their moral high ground if it means they get a nice custom that they want.

The administrator has been around, makes the rules, and knows what's up. Unless he takes real issue with something, I think it is safe to assume that you're cool doing what you do on this forum.

 

[thenammagazine]

JOhnny, I wouldn't worry too much about that. Some folks just like to stir ____ up, misuse terms they don't seem to fully understand like "hypocrisy," and are themselves happy to ditch their moral high ground if it means they get a nice custom that they want.

The administrator has been around, makes the rules, and knows what's up. Unless he takes real issue with something, I think it is safe to assume that you're cool doing what you do on this forum.

Likewise people twist what's morally right to justify getting customs while condemning others for something that's morally no different. Hence where the hypocrisy comes into play.

 

[die]

There was a time here on SSF when you couldn't say ANYTHING negative towards Chris Howes without getting pages of backlash from people defending him. I knew for a fact he was selling a sculpt here on the board that a friend of mine had comissioned Howes to sculpt. Howes not only violated the agreement with my friend, but he was already offering limited numbers of the sculpts to this board before he even sent my friend the final product.

There was also a time when plenty of people were buying the Sovereign Studios 89' Batman and Batman Returns figures (which were recasts of the old model kits) as well as Sideshow Anakin & Obi Wan recasts that Darren Carnall added some tweeks to. Some of the same people voicing complaints about recasters these days probably bought some of those products back in the day.


It all goes back to the point I was trying to make before, we should quit trying to play moral police and make our own choices based on our own standards. Me personally, I don't care. I own all kinds of different sculpts for tons of different reasons and the only person I have to justify it to is me.

Bottomline is if Hot Toys considers that DX Joker head or the Wolverine heads to be an issue, they'll pursue the companies.... if any of the sculptors of unlicensed sculpts feel ripped off, they'll either secure a license next time or just accept it as one of the perils of skipping a license to make truckloads of cash. Either way, I'm not upset or bothered by the recaster or the unlicensed sculptor, I say live and let live.

 

[Laney74]

Dave, this thread is bordering on defamation. No evidence has been provided to support the 10 pages of circular dialog. Just because someone puts a name to an auction does not provide proof of anything. By hiding Headplay's threads, this forum cut communications with them, why would they come back to defend themselves. This is one big kangaroo court.