Work slowdown at Port of Long Beach means "no collectibles for you!"

[devilof76]

Does it have to be imminent life-or-death critical to qualify as vital?

And I don't know how much that even matters. There are customers and businesses waiting for what they bought and what they're selling. All product is time sensitive in that regard. It's not the place of these dock workers to decide that the livelihood of the port's customers is less important than their own. Hubris, I believe, is the term.

 

[Taibhse]

Does it have to be imminent life-or-death critical to qualify as vital?

And I don't know how much that even matters. There are customers and businesses waiting for what they bought and what they're selling. All product is time sensitive in that regard. It's not the place of these dock workers to decide that the livelihood of the port's customers is less important than their own. Hubris, I believe, is the term.

..because the USA has only one port of entry and it is impossible to ship stuff there any other way.. oh wait....

It's a business opportunity for every other port in America, rather than allowing the port at LA to control approx 40% of US container shipping... especially since LA appears to have been operating at maximum capacity anyway.. instead of which you are proposing a Stalinist intervention by the government..that's exactly the sort of thing that would happen in Putin's Russia, the government stepping in to support an Oligarch's business interests.. let the market sort out the problem.

 

[Chronos1919]

The problem is that it costs a lot more for Asian goods to be shipped to another port. If they ship to another country there are going to be import/export fees and if it's shipped to another part of the US you're looking at much higher expenses for the goods to reach their destination. Fuel, labor, etc.

It could be that some importers are already looking at alternative ports, but that won't help whatever has already piled up at the West Coast ports. SS reportedly has 12 containers there already. Another issue with shipping to other ports could be that the ports are generally equipped/staffed to handle whatever their regular load is. If the crazy amount of goods that are generally shipped to the West Coast start going elsewhere, we could start seeing congestion at those ports as well. Not to mention that a place like SS then has to have those containers trucked that much further across the US.

 

[Taibhse]

The problem is that it costs a lot more for Asian goods to be shipped to another port. If they ship to another country there are going to be import/export fees and if it's shipped to another part of the US you're looking at much higher expenses for the goods to reach their destination. Fuel, labor, etc.

It could be that some importers are already looking at alternative ports, but that won't help whatever has already piled up at the West Coast ports. SS reportedly has 12 containers there already. Another issue with shipping to other ports could be that the ports are generally equipped/staffed to handle whatever their regular load is. If the crazy amount of goods that are generally shipped to the West Coast start going elsewhere, we could start seeing congestion at those ports as well. Not to mention that a place like SS then has to have those containers trucked that much further across the US.

I take your point, however this dispute highlights the risks of effectively having far too many eggs in one basket, because its 'cheap'.. and that situation will remain unchanged, unless investment is directed at other Pacific coast ports. This dispute offers companies an opportunity to step up the competition.. a lot of the problems caused by this dispute, are a result of Long Beach not having enough effective competition in the market.

 

[devilof76]

Do you even know what this strike is about? The port wants to change labor efficiency standards and the unions are protesting because the improvement of standards means jobs that exist presently will not exist in the future. So will other ports compete by offering less efficient standards aimed at coddling union maroons who think they run the ports?

..because the USA has only one port of entry and it is impossible to ship stuff there any other way.. oh wait....

Ship all the way down to the Panama Canal, perhaps?

It's a business opportunity for every other port in America, rather than allowing the port at LA to control approx 40% of US container shipping... especially since LA appears to have been operating at maximum capacity anyway.. instead of which you are proposing a Stalinist intervention by the government..that's exactly the sort of thing that would happen in Putin's Russia, the government stepping in to support an Oligarch's business interests.. let the market sort out the problem.

Unions exist to prevent the market from sorting out the problem, and I've proposed no solution. If the law protects these workers in their actions, then who is using the power of government to manipulate the markets against the rational self-interest of all involved?

Christ on a stick, you're obtuse.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Whole new flurry of emails with more product affected by the "slow down."

StarCraft Raynor - March - April
Cad Bane - Feb.-March
Bomb Squad Clone Trooper - Feb.-March
Hoth Han - Feb.-March

 

[Taibhse]

Do you even know what this strike is about? The port wants to change labor efficiency standards and the unions are protesting because the improvement of standards means jobs that exist presently will not exist in the future. So will other ports compete by offering less efficient standards aimed at coddling union maroons who think they run the ports?



Ship all the way down to the Panama Canal, perhaps?





Unions exist to prevent the market from sorting out the problem, and I've proposed no solution. If the law protects these workers in their actions, then who is using the power of government to manipulate the markets against the rational self-interest of all involved?

Christ on a stick, you're obtuse.

Nope, Unions were invented to protect blue collar Joes from being exploited by avaricious management, attempting to distort the market by paying less than the labor force is worth.. which if they have decided not to to invest in the port at Long Beach, is the only way for lazy management to increase profits.

The labor force is part of the market..and should be regarded as a company asset, not a cost.

Anyway, I'm agreeing with the experts.. of course it is possible you are better informed than a veteran shipping executive, in the industry.. but I doubt it -

A new-ish article on the port congestion. The veteran that is quoted says that shippers should add three weeks lead times. With the delays that SS has seen, it seems that might be a conservative estimate.

----------
"A veteran shipping executive says U.S. West Coast port problems are structural and “will not go away” and that as a result beneficial cargo owners should add three weeks to trans-Pacific import lead times to accommodate what will become chronic congestion at the largest U.S. container gateway.

Dan Gardner, a longtime executive with third-party logistics firms and now president of consulting firm Trade Facilitators Inc., said it can’t be assumed that once the current impasse between West Coast dockworkers and employers is resolved and a full labor force returns to the docks, there will likely not be enough productivity enhancements in a new contract to make a meaningful dent in the demands of mega-ships calling in Southern California.

“Simply stated, it takes a lot longer to off-load a 14,000 TEU vessel than it does an 8,000 TEU ship, and they consume a lot more space, cranes, chassis, trucks, drivers and on-dock/near-dock rail capacity when they finally do get a berth,” he said in article sent by email to JOC.com."
----------

 

[Stryker2011]

Nope, Unions were invented to protect blue collar Joes from being exploited by avaricious management, attempting to distort the market by paying less than the labor force is worth.. which if they have decided not to to invest in the port at Long Beach, is the only way for lazy management to increase profits.-

that may have been part of their original intent, but it's far from the truth today. Unions continue to exist, even though there are hundreds of laws protecting employees from unfair labor practices and unsafe work conditions, mainly to make money off the dues. They don't really care about the workers, despite all their talk. I've been in 4 different unions, and I couldn't wait to get away from them. They force companies to hire three to four times the necessary work force, pay everyone the same high wage, despite any work performance, and cause all work to be done at a drastically slower pace just so the employees can keep milking a job. The only people that benefit from unions are generally the worst employees who would have been fired ages ago, but now can't be because of the unions. if the files clerks back in 2002 were averaging $40 an hour, what could the guys doing all the real work possibly be making...?

 

[Taibhse]

that may have been part of their original intent, but it's far from the truth today. Unions continue to exist, even though there are hundreds of laws protecting employees from unfair labor practices and unsafe work conditions, mainly to make money off the dues. They don't really care about the workers, despite all their talk. I've been in 4 different unions, and I couldn't wait to get away from them. They force companies to hire three to four times the necessary work force, pay everyone the same high wage, despite any work performance, and cause all work to be done at a drastically slower pace just so the employees can keep milking a job. The only people that benefit from unions are generally the worst employees who would have been fired ages ago, but now can't be because of the unions. if the files clerks back in 2002 were averaging $40 an hour, what could the guys doing all the real work possibly be making...?

While I take the point you are making.. if you have not had a bad experience at the hands of corporate management, then you effectively did not require those Unions services.. and therefore the fees were a bit like the payments on an insurance policy, where you have never needed to make a claim.

I have had a number of friends who do not work in industries that traditionally use Unions, ripped off for literally tens of thousands of dollars commission on corporate Sales contracts, when their management realised that the commission on their Sales performance, would exceed an amount the management was 'happy' to pay.. in most cases because it meant the employee, would earn considerably more than their line manager/s.

The terms of their employment were therefore unilaterally amended by the management, without agreement from the employee.. In all cases although those friends were covered by some of the 'hundreds of laws protecting employees from unfair labor practices'.. there were two significant problems:

1. Paying in hard cash and time to pursue those legal entitlements.. I once processed a claim against a company over an unpaid bill, it took two years to get to court..and I was being paid as part of my job, to nail the SoBs.. it is a very different matter to pursue legal action at your own expense.

2. The awkward issue of getting a favorable reference from a company you are sueing.. because lets face it, once you start the legal process, your career is over at that company.. and win or lose, quite possibly in that industry.

As a result in each case, those individuals found jobs working for other companies, but had to swallow the financial loss.. so I don't have much sympathy for the implication that corporate management is all 'good employees' need..and that the market does not need Unions.
I have worked in management and I have worked on the 'shop flloor'.. so I am a tad cynical about both.. I certainly don't subscribe to pixie dust Libertarianisms about the market.. the market does what it does, badly.. however until someone invents something better, imho it's the best we have got.. but please don't put lipstick on the pig.

 

[devilof76]

Nope, Unions were invented to protect blue collar Joes from being exploited by avaricious management, attempting to distort the market by paying less than the labor force is worth

If they were worth more, competition from other employers would take care of that. The proper function of unions is for employees to negotiate en masse with employers. Slope browed assumptions to the effect that there are fair wages and that a job belongs to an employee have corrupted the process such that unions are able to use force to extort demands from those upon whom they depend for their livelihoods, i.e. their providers.

The more honest among the workforce recognize this and have grown tired of their racket.

which if they have decided not to to invest in the port at Long Beach, is the only way for lazy management to increase profits.

What they decided was to stop wasting money on inefficient work procedures, and those workers who depend on that ilack of efficiency to be useful.

The labor force is part of the market..and should be regarded as a company asset, not a cost.

When it yields a profit it can be considered something more than a cost. Otherwise it's dead weight.

Anyway, I'm agreeing with the experts.. of course it is possible you are better informed than a veteran shipping executive, in the industry.. but I doubt it -

I'm better informed than a lazy thinker (ad verecundiam) relying on the BS of his intellectual keepers to pinch hit for his wisdom.

 

[Lejuan]

Not all unions should be lumped in the same basket. No doubt the US enjoys a similar degree of cronyism and corruption in various union outfits as Australia. I'm not a member of my tertiary education union, but they do good work for the most part. But the unions in the building, construction and docks fields in particular are riddled with bikers and thugs who maintain close links to various criminal outfits.

We had a waterfront dispute at one of our major ports over a decade ago, where the government of the day intervened to break the union stranglehold on the wharves. The government wanted to raise container movement efficiency, the unions said it couldn't be done. The government engaged in some pretty dubious actions to get their way, but they got it for the most part. Result: reduced union intimidation of workers and improved efficiency.

I don't know squat about the US situation, but this whole 'solidarity forever' thing is kind of outdated imo, at least where I come from.

 

[Taibhse]

If they were worth more, competition from other employers would take care of that. The proper function of unions is for employees to negotiate en masse with employers. Slope browed assumptions to the effect that there are fair wages and that a job belongs to an employee have corrupted the process such that unions are able to use force to extort demands from those upon whom they depend for their livelihoods, i.e. their providers.

The more honest among the workforce recognize this and have grown tired of their racket.



What they decided was to stop wasting money on inefficient work procedures, and those workers who depend on that ilack of efficiency to be useful.



When it yields a profit it can be considered something more than a cost. Otherwise it's dead weight.



I'm better informed than a lazy thinker (ad verecundiam) relying on the BS of his intellectual keepers to pinch hit for his wisdom.

No, you are not.. but it's a virtuoso performance!

 

[devilof76]

You don't even know what this dispute is about.

But continue with your boiler plate assumptions and pigeonholing. A smear artist only has to produce **** to qualify as a seasoned professional. Congratulations on your promotion.

Not all unions should be lumped in the same basket...

...this whole 'solidarity forever' thing is kind of outdated imo, at least where I come from.

Agreed on both counts.

 

[koon]

Imagine a storm taking out all those Sideshow containers. In fact, being held and exposed to the salt air, they're highly subject to corrosion even inside those shipping containers...

So do all these ships just sit outside and wait to be unloaded as more ships come? I can imagine hundreds of vessels waiting just outside and creating all kinds of mayhem. Lucky oil has gone done, they should just divert shipping lanes if not already.

Although you'd think other port workers are watching intently to see what happens, but man if they all did something similar, that would create a huge rift in the US...

 

[Taibhse]

You don't even know what this dispute is about.

But continue with your boiler plate assumptions and pigeonholing. A smear artist only has to produce **** to qualify as a seasoned professional. Congratulations on your promotion.

Pot, kettle, black.

 

[creasy]

This is way i always buy direct from Hong Kong as soon as released.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[devilof76]

Pot, kettle, black.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[Taibhse]

Keep telling yourself that.

Still no references then, just your usual reliance on ipse dixit?

 

[hoodonit00]

Still no references then, just ipse dixit?

I don't get what you're getting at? I worked for a union and it was much what devil is describing. Going from a non union machine shop to Quaker Oats was a big shock to me. I have never had and still don't have as gravy as a job as I had there. The work ethic and sense of entitlement the employees had there shocked me. It's no surprise that they are no longer in business in Pa.

 

[Avactionfigures]

This whole issue about the port is idiotic. Because all you have are people pointing fingers at each other, with no resolution whatsoever. Also, a lot of companies and retailers in the future I've heard are going to try to bypass using the port. (Don't blame them one bit).

That aside, has anyone heard any news about any of the figures? Besides the 1/6 Superman?