Will the PT be loved more or hated more after TFA releases?

[Road Blaster]

I'm surprised no-one mentions ROTJ when comparing all the SW movies. It bookends the OT ok but it's easily my least favourite and least viewed of the OT. People complain about ROTS ruining Vader however in my opinion ROTJ already ruined the great work that ESB had done in establishing Vader as one of the great villains. Again I'm not complaining about that, as I said ROTJ is an ok bookend to the trilogy but it just seems that fans are happy to ignore the obvious flaws in that film because it's part of the OT.

Vader was ruined by TPM and AOTC just as much as he was ruined in ROTS.
At least ROTJ didn't turn Vader into a little whining b****.

 

[Road Blaster]

ROTJ didn't ruin Vader the prequels did.

 

[crows]

How the hell were the prequels supposed to mirror each other? OT was about the Rise of Jedi. PT was about the Fall. So of course they're different... you can't put "Yahoo, that's one hell of a shot" while Ani killin.

I don't know, that's what he said

 

[RIDDICK]

OT was about the Rise of Jedi. PT was about the Fall.

PT was about how the natural way of things was compromised and exploited.
OT was about the overthrow of Imperial dictatorship and restoration of the natural way of things.

I like the anti-republic and anti-idealistic message of PT, made me apritiate OT much more knowing that it's not just a black-n-white fairy tale.

 

[Matt S]

I'm rewatching Episode one for the first time in many years right now: Its about as I remember. Pod Race is still fun to watch.

 

[zeiss]

my biggest wish with Disney, my biggest hope is that Disney remakes the prequels.

Why not, this is the age of remakes, Reboots and sequels right? Studios don't care about Original ideas anymore, Why Not use that to our advantage?

Lucas, Instead of remastering everything and adding CGI to the movies and changing them, I never understood why he didn't just try to remake them (I hope Disney is thinking about it)

it has been long enough too. remake them so that they come out after this trilogy. fix the problems with the first ones, fix Jar Jar (delete him) Fix Anakin...
not only would it make a lot of money but it would fix this whole problem.

Even beyond confusing people (which it would), I think the bigger problem is that it really wasn't a story that needed to be told. Vader, Boba Fett, and the clone wars were much more interesting before we knew their backstory. It would be difficult for a remade prequel to fix that.

One thing I loved about the prequels was that they helped me to understand that when a character or situation seems mysterious and awesome, knowing the backstory isn't necessary.

 

[Prime Clone]

It's kinda cool that Boba was the last surviving relic of the clones - especially now that they've retconned Stormtroopers to be normal humans.

 

[Cixx]

PT was about how the natural way of things was compromised and exploited.
OT was about the overthrow of Imperial dictatorship and restoration of the natural way of things.

I like the anti-republic and anti-idealistic message of PT, made me apritiate OT much more knowing that it's not just a black-n-white fairy tale.

Appreciate

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

It will still be hated. Then in about five years the sequel trilogy will be hated as well

 

[K07]

It's kinda cool that Boba was the last surviving relic of the clones - especially now that they've retconned Stormtroopers to be normal humans.

They retconned a retcon?

 

[crows]

I wish the prequels were just forgotten

When do u hear people talking about the Howard the duck movie?
Or even something like that Shaq movie steel...

I wish tho was never talked about again

 

[zeiss]

I just re-watched revenge of the Sith tonight. A major problem with the film is that character motivations were not consistent or always logical. It seems that in more than a few occasions, the only justification for a character acting the way they did was to move the plot along.

Examples include:
-Mace Windu confronting Palpatine with only two other Jedi in tow.
-Yoda suddenly giving up the fight with palpatine so easily and then deciding to go in indefinite hiding. It is not like we was getting stomped in that battle.
-Obi-wan leaving his "brother" and apprentice burning alive. Wouldn't a mercy killing have been more in character?
-Padme, a previous queen and senator who saw battle many times, dies of friggin' heartbreak right after absentmindedly naming her two kids and telling Obi-wan there is still good in Anakin.
-Anakin going from a good natured hero to a child and friend killing servant to the guy responsible for the war he had been fighting for the last few years. All happening in the split second between deciding what to do with Windu wanting to kill Palpatine.

Of those illogical character choices, the Anakin one is the most jarring. The transisition was too abrupt. I understand killing Windu to keep Palpatine alive but to do that and then immediately march to kill all the Jedi, including children, was a little much considering the lack of build up to such actions.

Other than those issues, the movie was quite enjoyable. A shame it never reached its potential.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Think the slaughtering of Sand people was supposed to be his indication of evil ability. And his anger at being on the council but not made a master soured him on the Jedi.

His willing to do anything to save Padme was silly for me as he knew Padme wouldn't want an Evil Anakin. Though I did like how his fears over losing her is what caused him to lose her. Plays well into the Jedi mantra on attachment and fear

 

[Prime Clone]

Once Anakin helped defeat Mace he knew he was past the point of no return: "I will do whatever you ask. Just help me save Padme's life. I can't live without her."

It's the classic selling your soul to the devil to gain something you want in return.

I actually went in to ROTS sceptical about Anakin's downfall being plausible within the time constraints, but I thought George largely pulled it off.

 

[WWEJedi]

I just re-watched revenge of the Sith tonight. A major problem with the film is that character motivations were not consistent or always logical. It seems that in more than a few occasions, the only justification for a character acting the way they did was to move the plot along.

I disagree.

Examples include:
Mace Windu confronting Palpatine with only two other Jedi in tow.

He confronted him with three: Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin, and Kit Fisto. Mace knew he needed to deal with Palpatine instantly before Palpatine found out they knew they were on to him. He grabbed whoever he could, which were three fellow council members and went to confront him. He even said "We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is going to survive." He thought he could handle it and maybe his arrogance got in the way. His intentions were to save the Jedi Order and not let the Sith escape, hence the quick action of attack.

-Yoda suddenly giving up the fight with palpatine so easily and then deciding to go in indefinite hiding. It is not like we was getting stomped in that battle.

Well, the fall hurt him. He dropped his lightsaber. By the time he recovered he sensed massive amount of Clones swarming the building. He stays and fights a clone army and Palpatine he is dead. His best option was to live to fight another day and escape while Palpatine and troops are still in a state of confusion of trying to find him.

-Obi-wan leaving his "brother" and apprentice burning alive. Wouldn't a mercy killing have been more in character?

He didn't want to put the death blow to someone he loved. He assumed his injuries were bad enough and thought he would die. Some people can do a mercy killing and some could not bear it. Plus there is this line... "It's not the Jedi way to execute an unarmed opponent."

Padme, a previous queen and senator who saw battle many times, dies of friggin' heartbreak right after absentmindedly naming her two kids and telling Obi-wan there is still good in Anakin.

Dying of heartbreak is actually a real medical problem.

Is Broken Heart Syndrome Real?

Yes, You Can Die From a Broken Heart - ABC News

-Anakin going from a good natured hero to a child and friend killing servant to the guy responsible for the war he had been fighting for the last few years. All happening in the split second between deciding what to do with Windu wanting to kill Palpatine.
Of those illogical character choices, the Anakin one is the most jarring. The transisition was too abrupt. I understand killing Windu to keep Palpatine alive but to do that and then immediately march to kill all the Jedi, including children, was a little much considering the lack of build up to such actions.

Transitioned happened over the course of three movies.

Fear. He was afraid of what would happen to his mom. He was afraid to go off and start a new life.

Anger. He suffered being away from Padme and his mother. Mother dies and he is angry so he kills the Tuskens. "I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals. I HATE THEM!"

Hate. He ends up hating the Jedi. For his mother's death he blames them for not being there when she needs him. He hates them for not letting himself try to save Padme. He thinks she will die. He saw visions of Padme death as did his mother's (which came true). He was willing to do anything for the women he loved (wouldn't a lot of people do whatever it took to save the person they loved?). Palpatine told him what he needed to do to save her. In a state of mixed emotions and after knowing he is in to deep after basically killing Mace... he obeys and his best option now is to do what Palps says to save Padme.

 

[JAWS]

This is a parphrase but... "In episode 2 when Jar Jar looks at the camera and smiles... like... are you trying to antagonize us? Like it was like he was smiling and saying I am still here!" BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I gotta say that is true, gotta love George for that.

There is something funny about that I will admit but I am not a complete Jar Jar hater. Not in the sense that I think he ruined TPM. He was the worst part of that film but not the worst part of the series.

Lucas pulled that same crap with Jedi though by putting the "nooooooooo" from Vader in it. I think that was a big F you also. Jerk move IMO because he ruined a great scene. It comes across more as a spoiled child.

He obviously cares nothing for his fans and that is fine. But I gotta laugh when he tried to have input on the new films and Disney said "no thanks" Lucas said he had some ideas in mind but Disney wanted to do something for the fans.... Imagine that.... Something that the fans will like and not just Lucas. Its gotta be eating him up inside

Honestly.... all I got out of that was a bunch of dudes who sat in tents, **** in pans and ******* in bottles, hopes are way to high they are just going to be letdown. There is no way that the movie could have lived up to the hype. If anything the hype killed this movie. Every single one of those guys... just by the way they talked.... knew what they wanted. You can tell. They knew what they wanted to happen. The one guy said Anakin and Obi Wan meeting wow! He was so excited. He knew what he wanted from that. He didn't get it. I don't feel sorry for them honestly. They were dumb to get hopes up so high that they were unreachable.

But it was poorly done.... that is the problem. Not the way they were brought together... Never once in the series do we really see Obi Wan and Anakin as friends... A little in ROTS but that's it. Due to the bad story telling and script we never really feel the impact of Vader vs Obi wan. It's not too life long friends. It's a snobby teacher and a bratty kid fighting and that's about it. It the scripts were good and the stories interesting people would not have cared how they met or what age Anakin was. Yes the fans sleeping out at night were due for a let down..... It did not help that that let down happened to be a pretty average movie.

Compare the friendship of Han and Luke... They really were only given about 40 min total to become fiends in ANH. But the script was good and the characters well written. We believed they grew and bond through good and acting and writing. That bond goes a long way in ESB and ROTJ and they hardly have any time together... But we feel that they have been life long friends.... Even though they were only friends for about 3 years by the time Jedi roles around.

TPM they share almost no meaningful screen time together. AOTC is mostly Obi wan bitching at Anakin and Anakin whining so by the time ROTS roles around we really don't care about this so call lifelong friendship.

Hype + entitlement to there wishes coming true = hatred. Sorry, but that is what I got.

I hate your "entitlement" argument. Entitled to a good movie... Sure and if Lucas delivered I would agree with you about their wishes. As is.... Well history has spoken about what the majority feel about this film.



You Have asked why the hate continues. It's so hard to put all the thoughts together because they flood in. Here are a few.

1. The OT was almost Universally loved. They are well made family film. ANH and ESB are on countless peoples top ten list. They are family films that don't dumb down to the lowest Child's IQ. People wanted the PT. They wanted more adventures and they / we waited a long time for it. When they finally arrived it was apparent that one series was made at a time of "Taxi Driver" and the other was made at a time of Barney the Dinosaur.

2. It was the feeling of finality. I might be able to get past my complete dislike of these films if the new ones are good. But when ROTS credits rolled we all thought "well that's it. It really is all over" So there was a lot of frustration over that.

3. WWE I get that you saw these as a child and that is why you can't understand points 1 and 2. But I gotta say... For Me The PT are not as good as the Transformers films. They are not as well acted or directed and that pains me to say. I will watch them more because they are SW but M Bay and the cast are all Oscar winners compared to the PT.

Having said that they hate is not years and years heaped on Transformers because 1. Nobody was expecting a toy to be a multi million dollar film and 2 for a film about toys it really was about as good as people should expect.

SW was a known and loved franchise which leads me to

4. Lucas screwed with things that effected the OT and either ruined some of the overall mythology of the OT or left big plot holes. Midichlorians, R2 and Obi wan don't know each other, Leia remembers her mom, Vader not seeming to really know that this Skywalker kid is his son,.. Lucas actually had to go back and change some of the dialogue for ESB between the Emperor and Vader to try and make this make more sense. Oh and Fett being nothing more then a Clone... Lucas felt he had to go back and ruin his lines in the OT also by trying to make it fit with his all over the place PT

As for the films themselves.

1. For Us The storytelling was just not done well. There is no real villain in the PT. The Emperor is there but we are constantly introduced to new villain in each film. We never get to know and understand the bad guys. Sure The Emperor was there but he was a hologram in TPM and was only in the last 2 min of AOTC. OT gave us Vader in all three films. The most iconic villain of all time. No such thing in the PT. I still have no idea why the trade federation had a "perfectly legal" blockade on Naboo.

2. The dialogue. It is so bad it made me uncomfortable. Sometimes it's hard to tell if it was the acting or the lines. Perhaps both. Aliens with Asian accents saying "are you brain dead? ", Kids screaming "Yipee", Anakin and his Sand speech, Padme and her "I truly, deeply Love you ", Most of Jar jar;s lines, Anakin and Padme's "love has blinded you" Anakin and Obi wan's AOTC elevator conversation, I could keep going but then lets just talk about every side character who flies a ship in TPM... Compare those naboo pilot's to the Rouge squadron in ANH... Funny thing is the actors in ANH thought they were making a rubbish film... they new nothing of SW and yet they all do pretty good performances and sell the scene.

3. The direction... It comes down to the fact that you can see in all the behind the scene stuff that Lucas was happy with good enough. Since he financed the films himself I assume that meant more takes = more money.... So two takes was good enough and it is apparent IMO because he has a bunch of people that can act but it's not the case in these films.


You are going to find very few people over the age of 25 who will say these are quality films... Younger people might because they saw these when they were young but the for us "Old timers" the quality is just not there.

One can say that that we love the OT because we saw them as kids and that may be somewhat true... But none of the PT will ever be on the AFI top 100 films. I also have no problem calling a film crap that I use to love as a child... The OT is not crap... Though I will say the ROTJ was a warning sign of things to come.

I did not even hate them on first viewing. Hell they were SW I gave them a Big pass. But repeat viewing make all the issue that much more apparent and harder to ignore. They end up sticking out like a sore thumb rather then just something that can be easily ignored.

Now I don't think any of this has anything to do with "entitlement". Just the expectation of a competently made continuation of a beloved classic series.

Having said that there are good moment in the PT. I find TPM to be a decent enough film. It has a goo villain, Qui Gon is interesting, the action is well done, and the lack of green screens for every scene I believe helps the acting. AOTC has nothing that I like. I really find it to be one of the worst "BIG" movies ever made. ROTS had some stuff like the end with Luke and Leia. The start of the Obi wan / Anakin fight was good but it went down hill quickly with the wire swinging and lava surfing.


Anyways that is just my reasons for not enjoying the PT and piling on when I got a chance. It drives me nuts that Lucas lost his mind... Proof being that around the same time he made up "midichlorians" he had Greedo shoot first.

 

[Invictus Sol]

It will still be hated. Then in about five years the sequel trilogy will be hated as well

Yeah, just like T2 is hated for not being exactly like the first and being a sequel. News flash, son: People like good movies and dislike bad ones. Another example: First two Godfathers loved and third hated -- because it's a POS, just like the prequels! If JJ delivers, the film will get the audience and praise it deserves. Lawrence Kasden saying he's seen it six or seven times and likes it is certainly a good sign to me.

 

[JAWS]

He didn't want to put the death blow to someone he loved. He assumed his injuries were bad enough and thought he would die. Some people can do a mercy killing and some could not bear it. Plus there is this line... "It's not the Jedi way to execute an unarmed opponent."

Unless you name is Mace

I have always hated the cocky grumpy Mace Windu. His point in the films seemed to just be a ****. all the time.

Dying of heartbreak is actually a real medical problem.


Is Broken Heart Syndrome Real?

Yes, You Can Die From a Broken Heart - ABC News

Does not make it good story telling just because it can happen. Plus anyone who has had kids can say that you don't know real love until you have your own child... She had two...

Transitioned happened over the course of three movies.

Fear. He was afraid of what would happen to his mom. He was afraid to go off and start a new life.

Anger. He suffered being away from Padme and his mother. Mother dies and he is angry so he kills the Tuskens. "I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals. I HATE THEM!"

Hate. He ends up hating the Jedi. For his mother's death he blames them for not being there when she needs him. He hates them for not letting himself try to save Padme. He thinks she will die. He saw visions of Padme death as did his mother's (which came true). He was willing to do anything for the women he loved (wouldn't a lot of people do whatever it took to save the person they loved?). Palpatine told him what he needed to do to save her. In a state of mixed emotions and after knowing he is in to deep after basically killing Mace... he obeys and his best option now is to do what Palps says to save Padme.

While I don't disagree with some of this... Some of it is you reading this into the story. There is no example of Anakin hating or blaming the Jedi for his mother... He should I agree... But Lucas fails to convey this in the script.

 

[JAWS]

Yeah, just like T2 is hated for not being exactly like the first and being a sequel. News flash, son: People like good movies and dislike bad ones. Another example: First two Godfathers loved and third hated -- because it's a POS, just like the prequels! If JJ delivers, the film will get the audience and praise it deserves. Lawrence Kasden saying he's seen it six or seven times and likes it is certainly a good sign to me.

Ultimately that is what it comes down to... If the New films are good they will be loved. If they fail they will be rightfully hated just like the PT

 

[WWEJedi]

Does not make it good story telling just because it can happen. Plus anyone who has had kids can say that you don't know real love until you have your own child... She had two...

That isn't fact. Just based on opinions. She loved Anakin so much the shock and trauma of the truth killed her. Happens all the time sadly.

While I don't disagree with some of this... Some of it is you reading this into the story. There is no example of Anakin hating or blaming the Jedi for his mother... He should I agree... But Lucas fails to convey this in the script.

Like any good movie goer is supposed to do.... read into the story. Infer. It is easy to make assumptions and that is what happens all the time in every single movie. Assumptions. If people can't get to this on there own... they were never smart enough to watch this in the first place then or just never wanted to think for two seconds and have everything explained to them. I followed the script and his actions pretty easily on the first viewing. You can't knock a film for what it didn't do though. I could be wrong, but to me you felt they should have done that (show Anakin hating the Jedi), they didn't, you didn't like they didn't do what you wanted. Entitlement. That is where my argument comes in. They did show the hate though....

This line in AOTC showing his hate for the Obi-Wan. "It's all Obi-Wan's fault. He's jealous. He's holding me back."

Plus he is mad at them for this...

Anakin Skywalker: I swear to you... I didn't ask to be put on the council.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: But it's what you wanted. Your friendship with Chancellor Palpatine seems to have paid off. Anakin, I am on your side. I did not want to put you in this situation
Anakin Skywalker: What situation?
Obi-Wan Kenobi: The Council wants you to report on all the Chancellor's dealings.
Anakin Skywalker: They want me to spy on the Chancellor? But that is treason!
Obi-Wan Kenobi: We are at war, Anakin.


Plus his frustration on not being on the council for the longest time.

Them not fully trusting Anakin from the start when he was young.

It all builds up. All these factors.