Why Sideshow should make a new body

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Seth Gecko said:
Anakin has a broken arm for me as well.:lol(that needed to be super glued/lit with a lighter to plump it up so it can stick in/taped/whatever to get that arm to stay in)
My arm is fine i did use tape to get the bird action:rotfl

I just thought it would be funny.
 
I hate the Buck bodies Sideshow uses because it's like putting a Lamborghini body on a Pinto chasis.

It REALLY holds most of the figures back and they truly don't look as natural in most poses as the HT and Medi figures do, which is a damn shame really.

The Buck is more like a 1/6 mannequin than a 1/6 person and needs to go NOW.
 
Irish, you were at CIV. Did you get a chance to discuss this with any Sideshow employees?
 
My Sideshow Star Wars collection right now has a few figures with replacement bodies. I don't feel the need to replace them all, but some just need it. I've replaced Jedi Luke, ESB Han, Endor Infantry, Ceremony Luke, and Darth Maul's bodies with Hot Toys bodies. I'm turning the Endor Sergeant into the black Endor soldier when the AA Hot Toys body comes out.

The rest are on their original bodies, mainly because the design of the costume hides the bad features of the body. Robed characters use the body well. Characters in relatively normal clothing like the Lukes and Han just look bad with the Sideshow body. The gaps in the hips are just terrible and make the figure look cheap. Maul's outfit would've covered up the bad features but I wanted the poseability. Sideshow's bodies simply do not have it.

Oh, they have a wide range of movement in certain areas like the hips - but it's an unrealistic range of movement(how many people need to kick themselves in the face) and it takes a toll on the appearance. And a lot of the articulation is just not any good. Justin's demonstrated that they can't mimic holding a cellphone next to your head already, but I'm talking about stuff like the shoulders where there's some sort of spring thing that makes them pop back where they were originally when you move them.

I wasn't really disappointed with Sideshow's bodies originally, until I got my first hot toys human figures(Aliens Colonial Marine Hicks and Vasquez). They looked like(well apart from the paint apps) like foot tall people. Like living people. The proportions were perfect. And the weight thing he mentioned is dead on. Hold a Sideshow body in your hand and it's flimsy. Shake it and it's like Woody in Toy Story. The Hot Toys body just feels like better quality all around.

Sideshow has improved their female body though, it's actually not too bad right now, though it still has the gap hips that make the abdomen seem ridiculously high(so many sideshow figures look like they're wearing old man pants because of this). Hopefully the changes that were mentioned for Padme get carried over to all female figures.
 
I was at C4 and asked about the body development. I was told that they have already made some changes b/c of the Leia bodies and the Asajj. EP4 Leia is suppose to have filled in hips to make her dress drape better, so hopefully no more holes. Also, I was told that the torso of the female body was changed to decrease the breast size b/c the armor on the Boush figure didnt fit right with the current body. In a nut shell, they said that the improvements would come gradually, on the female body first and on an as-needed basis. Apparently the male body will receive upgrades to close the hips as well, but again, on a graduale basis.
I cant remember the guys name I talked to, but it was right after the panel. He was the blonde guy in design development.
 
I think it really comes down to whether we want "adequate" or "excellent". I'm seriously considering replacing the Buck bodies on all my Sideshow figures because, after getting a few HT and Medi figures, I've gotten spoiled.

If I can perfect adapting the Sideshow hands (still IMHO about the best in the indusry) to fitting the HT bodies this will become a certainty.
 
There are problems with the SS bodies and anyone who cant see that, I'm afraid, needs to go back and have a closer look at their figures.
The Buck body is adequate for most of the figures we have received so far because of the baggy clothing. However, to keep up with the competition the body needs to be more than aqeduate. I really want to display Jedi Luke in his Death Star II duel outfit but the tight-fitting nature of the clothing really shows up the body's short-comings.
Its good that SS has recognised and acnowledged that the Buck has its problems and is promising changes for future releases. However, I really think they need to start from scratch as the problems arent just limited to issues like the hip gap. The poses just dont look as natural as with other bodies, the joints become loose far too quickly and the bodies arent well balanced making it very difficult to get the figures to stand up without the figure stands.
Dont get me wrong, I'm totally happy with Sideshow and would prefer a really good head sculpt to a good body, given the choice. However, with the money SS is making from the Star Wars line they should give us a new body. I dont mind an extra $5 per figure to see something of the quality of HT or Medicom, and with a better body, the armoured figures should be easier to get spot on.
 
DCFett said:
I was at C4 and asked about the body development. I was told that they have already made some changes b/c of the Leia bodies and the Asajj. EP4 Leia is suppose to have filled in hips to make her dress drape better, so hopefully no more holes. Also, I was told that the torso of the female body was changed to decrease the breast size b/c the armor on the Boush figure didnt fit right with the current body. In a nut shell, they said that the improvements would come gradually, on the female body first and on an as-needed basis. Apparently the male body will receive upgrades to close the hips as well, but again, on a graduale basis.
I cant remember the guys name I talked to, but it was right after the panel. He was the blonde guy in design development.

As needed basis?? Let's go back to the beginning. Improvements weren't needed for Jedi Luke's hips, legs, and arms?
 
Sideshow's male body is certainly in need of upgrades, but they are making improvements, the new female body used for Sarah Connor proves that although the ball jointed head is hard to tilt up and down, but the body is pretty good.

_MG_0349.jpg




As far as the male bodies, they are inferior to HT and Med as far as poseability, there is simply no doubt about that...
 
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That's a good pic Pjam. And while the figure may have good articulation, I don't think even an anorexic girl could have a rib cage that small. Those proportions are way off, even if you're trying to idealize the female body. Unfortunately, HT doesn't make female bodies, but at least the male ones have decent human proportions.


Here's the link you were talking about Faramir:
https://www.limitedtoysdesign.com/corpsgalerie.html

It doesn't include the HT bodies, but it's still a good comparison.
 
The insistence that Sideshow improve their bodies has gone on since back when this forum was on ez-board. In fact, Dusty said she'll pass along our recommendations to people at Sideshow, and they still haven't improved them in any of the right ways.

Since it took me so long to compose, I kept my original post. Here's my original post (in two parts) that I posted in that thread a few years ago. The thread was before Sideshow made new wrist joins on the Star Wars figures so that improvement isn't covered in the posting, also this was posted before the modern backlash against Sideshow bashing so take that into consideration:

I've been thinking about this subject for the past week or so, just never got around to posting about it.
Mainly, my problem with Sideshow figures is with the females.

Female problem areas:

1) They need an hour glass shape.
The main problem is in the thighs, they are too thin and stick figure like.
They also need a larger upper torso. there's nothing wrong with the bust, just the thickness of the rib cage area.

2) They need thicker thighs.
This is a part of the whole hour glass shape thing. But they need to be a little thicker in most dimensions.

3) Thin spindly arms (they look like sticks)
The upper portion of the arm needs to be slightly thicker with a bit more shape to them. The lower arm could also use some help in the same way, they're too straight as it is now.

4) They need a But!
The lower back portion of the body is too flat, it just needs a little more junk in the trunk to look more realistic.

5) No more Boot Feet!
The main problem here is that boot feet often cause the ankles to be weaker then they would be with shoes. the softer boot material would also help them stand better and prevent them from sliding on surfaces. they also really don't help in customizing the female Sideshow body.

6) They need to be an average female height in 1:6 scale.
often times, Sideshow bodies are too tall to look like the average woman.

7) Joints need to be tighter.
They don't need to be immovable, they just need to be stiff enough to hold the figure's own wight.

8.) They need to be a little lighter.
Sideshow male and female bodies as they are, are too heavy. And when a figure has a sold plastic head, this makes them very heavy. I wouldn't want the head to be lighter because that means they would lose detail, so the body must be a bit lighter.

9.) The Ball jointed head needs more movement.
This is a problem that occurs on quite a few of them, looking up and down is essential to conveying character. But I wouldn't want a joint at the base of the neck, that would leave an ugly seam with plunging necklines, just a better designed ball joint at the top of the neck would suffice.

10) The legs need to be able to come closer together in the center.
I've noticed on newer Sideshow females that the legs leave a huge gap in the middle and don't meet at the knees. This is also part of the thigh problem.

11) More shape to the upper back.
I've noticed that my Sideshow females lack any real definition in the back area. This does not mean they need to look like body builders, just that they need some shoulder blades.

12) Better jointed ankles.
This joint has the most stress and weakens the quickest. It needs to be designed better. I like the movement you get on Blue Box Generation 3.5 ankles, maybe looking at them would help better this joint.

13) tighter Joints in the upper thigh twist joint.
I've noticed this joint on both male and Sideshow figures has a tendency to be very lose. Maybe by using a rubber gasket or a softer plastic would help prevent this joint from loosening up?

The following are just more like areas that would benefit from some advancements. Not that they are absolutely necessary to make the female figure perfect, but that they could possibly perfect the Sideshow body if done right.
-----Fewer joints.
Joints are an eye sore, but they are inevitable. The main problem is the extra joint at the waist. It's maybe a little unnecessary. They still need to bend forward, backward, side to side, and twist, just that the articulation line and gaps don't need to be visible. I like the way the joint at the upper torso on Female figures looks, just not the lower joint at the waist.

----Better designed hip articulation.
This is the biggest problem with female figures in general, not just Sideshow's females but the Takara (CY-Girls), Dragon, BBI (perfect body), Hot Toys, etc.. female figures. They need full articulation, but don't need any type of gap or joint line. I'm not suggesting that a soft cast type skin needs to be used to cover the gap, that stuff can breakdown over time. Just some type of innovation needs to be used. I like the perfect body type hips, but they have a ugly gap in between the legs. maybe using a similar type joint, but with something covering the gap in between the legs would work? I'm sure the people at Sideshow could perfect it. If not, just use the standard hip joint but perhaps with less of a gap showing where the leg meets the hip.

----Less opaque color.
I've noticed that the slight transparency of the plastic on CY-Girls figures causes the joints to be less visible by allowing light to inter the joint area and defuse the shadow there. They don't need to be completely transparent, they need some color.

I'll chime in later about my thoughts on the Sideshow male body.....

________________________________________________________________


I just looked over the Sideshow male body this weekend. here are several major problems that need to be remedied.

Sideshow male body problems:

1) Very ugly hip joints.
these are the worst hip joints I have seen. there is waaaay to much of a gap between top of the thigh and the pelvis. This needs to be fixed badly. I've noticed that my Sideshow figure's hips are also looser because of this joint. And fixing it doesn't mean it loses range of movement, Dragon's basic body has quite a bit of a range of movement, and still looks more aesthetically pleasing.

2) Clunky joint articulation.
On most of the joints, specifically the shoulder joint at the upper torso, and thorax joint, they are very clunky and awkward. The range of movement is stifled because I have to force the joint to move which clunks around until it's in the right position. Also, the waist joint is severely limited from twisting left and right.This needs to be fixed.

3) The knees are smaller in thickness then the elbows!
This is very weird but the knees on Sideshow figures are too thin in thickness, the elbows are thicker, about the right thickness. The knees are always thicker then the elbows on a real human being. Also, this is a spot that has quite a bit of stress and actually bows the legs from the wight of the figure. Make the knees thicker then the elbows in all dimensions and you have a winner.

4) Needs smoother, No gap, better designed knee and elbow joints.
I've noticed that the Sideshow elbow and knee joints have a big gap showing the kneecap/"elbow cap" joint pieces from the front of the joints on the arms and the back of the knees. This needs to be more streamlined. I shouldn't be able to see the "elbow piece" of the double jointed elbow joint from the front of the arm. This needs to be re-sculpted/designed so it just has a bit of a seam between the upper arm and lower arm at the joint. Also, the forms of these joints should flow into one another more seamlessly, if Dragon can have smother looking elbows so can Sideshow.

5) Ugly second joint in forearm.
This joint needs to be someplace else, preferably closer to the wrist. getting rid of it all together would mean a new type of wrist joint. If a better wrist joint could be made similar to the wrist joints on Blue Box G3.5 wrists, and still have the same great Sideshow hand sculpting, then do it. If the hand sculpting would suffer, then I guess it's unavoidable.

6) Better ball jointed head.
When I looked at the Blue Box G3.5 heads range of movement, it had far superior range of movement and could convey a great deal of expression. The lower neck joint at the base of the neck on the Blue Box G3.5 bodies is ugly, so don't copy that aspect.

7) Needs slightly thicker calves.
The calves on Sideshow figures is just a little too thin. When you fix the thickness of the knee joints, the calves will just need to be made a little thicker then they are now.

8.) Ugly sculpted abdominal muscles!
What were you thinking Sideshow? these look ridiculous. They need to be re-sculpted smother with less definition. It would also be better to even out the asymmetry you have going on right now with these abdominal muscles while your at it. I don't have any problems with the muscles on the chest, they look great to me, just those ugly abs on the stomach. Also, while your at it, there are some lines on the back of the abdominal piece, directly opposite of the ugly abs that need to be smoothed out as well.

9) Needs more seamless wrists.
The wrists look too ugly as they are. They need to be smother and less unsightly. I love the hand sculpts Sideshow does and wouldn't want the redesign to interfere with Sideshow's great looking hand sculpts, or the artists inability to sculpt new ones because of a new wrist joint.

10) Needs better designed wrist pins.
The Pins that hold the hands on have to be redesigned so they aren't as flimsy and breakable. The way they are now makes it difficult to switch out hands, so they need a better more sturdy design.
(Note: This was written way before Sideshow got the Star Wars license)

11) Better designed torso articulation (the shoulder joint on the upper torso, waist, and mid thorax joints).
Besides the chunkiness of the joint that I mentioned before, these joints don't have a very good range of movement. I like the shoulder cups that allow the arms to move further forward and backward, but they are difficult to move. They need to have a smoother, easer range of motion. Whatever you do, DO NOT copy the shoulder joint on the Blue Box G3.5 body, that one is incredibly ugly! For the mid thorax articulation, I would like a joint similar to DC Direct's mid thorax joint. It's the one Marvel developed for their Marvel Legends figures. Using that joint with a better ball jointed waist joint would be perfect! Because the way they are now, Sideshow males can't bend forward at the waist. The Waist joint specifically does need a better ball type joint with a greater range of movement.

12) Make the body lighter!
The body is too heavy as it is, make the body lighter and it would make everything better.

13) A better sculpted butt.
The butt on males is too flat, and the cheeks need to be just a little bigger.

- Just a suggestion that isn't a necessity, how about making the plastic slightly less opaque to allow light into the joint to defuse the shadows?

That's all the problems I could find on the Sideshow male this weekend. I might have some more I'll post here latter. I really hope Sideshow is listening and I'm not just wasting my time.
This was posted before Hot Toys or Medicom came up with their modern bodies so they're not used as examples. Personally, I would prefer Sideshow to just copy the best of either of those bodies and retire their original Bucks.
I seem to remember Dave disagreeing about the female hourglass issue, that he didn't want curvaceous Takara/BBI like female figures which I have to agree to a point. But he didn't say anything at the time about any of the other issues brought up. ;)
Please Sideshow, improve your Basic Male and Female Bodies!
 
DCFett said:
In a nut shell, they said that the improvements would come gradually, on the female body first and on an as-needed basis. Apparently the male body will receive upgrades to close the hips as well, but again, on a graduale basis.

This is disappointing. I thought perhaps they were still working on totally new bodies and it was just taking a while. I was expecting better out of Sideshow
 
The comment from the anonymous SSC rep that they will improve the bodies on an 'as needed' basis kind of bugs me. If I'm buying your product and you have a better body available, then I want it. I don't want someone decideing that I can make due with the old model.
As far as I'm concerned every figure NEEDS the new body. They already do the best sculpts (IMO), very soft goods and the best customer service. This is really the only area they need to improve.
 
Ok, here's the deal. Sideshow employees want to make as much money as possible. Don't we all? I know I do! But in order to realize this, I don't think it's the wisest choice to continue penny pinching the old Art Buck.

As time goes on, there are going to be more and more Sideshow customers dropping 1/6 lines because they are dissatisfied with the quality they get for the price. I already only hand pick certain must have pieces because I am basically buying the figure for the sculpt and accessories. I don't like paying for an old Art Buck that I won't even use. So if Sideshow releases something along the lines of a HT body (with better shoulders like the A.C.E), I would be purchasing more of their figures.

And if their body is superior to what is already on the market, they will be having people who exclusively collect military lines and female vixen lines, etc. coming over to purchase their bodies as replacements. So every time Hot Toys, BBi, or Dragon release a figure, there will be certain percentage purchasing Sideshow bodies to enhance them. And when they buy the body and realize what great quality it is, they will be more apt to look at what lines Sideshow offers and make some new purchases that they wouldn't have made otherwise. So now Sideshow has a growing customer base from the rest of the 1/6 community.

Again, if Sideshow releases new male and female bodies of varying heights that are superior to all other 1/6 figures on the market, they will easily make back the initial investment by selling 1/6 nude bodies to customers from all different 1/6 manufacturers. Then, they will continue to bring in profits on the nudes while they still release new figures every few months.
 
Blah Blah Blah, new body, Blah. Seriously, I think we all know. I think SS knows, and I think they're working on it, from what they said. So chin up bucks!
 
You guys need to buy statues.:monkey1




nash said:
am I the one who tucks his T-shirts into his jeans? :rotfl:rotfl:rotfl


:mwaha :mwaha :mwaha :mwaha

And Nash,you crazy ****er, You made me laugh so hard with this one....lollll....you're bad.lollll
 
Shai Hulud said:
You guys need to buy statues.:monkey1







:mwaha :mwaha :mwaha :mwaha

And Nash,you crazy ****er, You made me laugh so hard with this one....lollll....you're bad.lollll
:rock:rock:rock
 
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