Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Which is what everybody does with pretty much every post in every thread here. Are you just now figuring that out? What's the point in having a "thread" where only two people talk directly to each other?

My point here is, I wasn't trying to make a point to you, initially. What was your point other than starting a nonsensical debate about your preferred "subjectiveness" for defining what a successful movie is over factual statistics?

I'm curious, what story there is still to tell about Han that would take 3 films.

We'll find out, won't we?

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

And FYI, Leia was the "other" mentioned in ESB, so that wasn't done in ROTJ.

Nope. That was an ROTJ retcon. Lucas said he came up with the idea of the "other" to make Luke seem expendable to the audience and increase the stakes at Cloud City. It sure as heck wasn't Leia though.

Think about it.

Luke was flying off to rescure Han and LEIA. What if he failed?

"That boy is our LAST hope. If he dies or gets turned trying to rescue Leia, we're screwed."

"No, there is another."

"Who?"

"Leia, his twin sister."

"But isn't she the one he's going to rescue?"

"Yes, but, ah crap, yeah you got me he's our last hope."

 

[automaton]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I'm curious, what story there is still to tell about Han that would take 3 films.

at his age, i don't think there is any story left to tell worthy of one film... especially if his offspring are involved.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Nope. That was an ROTJ retcon. Lucas said he came up with the idea of the "other" to make Luke seem expendable to the audience and increase the stakes at Cloud City. It sure as heck wasn't Leia though.

Think about it.

Luke was flying off to rescure Han and LEIA. What if he failed?

"That boy is our LAST hope. If he dies or gets turned trying to rescue Leia, we're screwed."

"No, there is another."

"Who?"

"Leia, his twin sister."

"But isn't she the one he's going to rescue?"

"Yes, but, ah crap, yeah you got me he's our last hope."

Retcon? It was actually in ESB. You're gonna have to troll harder.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

The conversation where Luke asks Ben who the other is and is told that it's Leia is after Yoda dies in ROTJ. You really haven't seen the OT in a while have you?

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

We'll find out, won't we?

Is that all you got? Don't wanna put yourself out there with any actual guess? Imagine that. Its so much easier just to criticize those that do.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

The conversation where Luke asks Ben who the other is and is told that it's Leia is after Yoda dies in ROTJ. You really haven't seen the OT in a while have you?

Who else did you think that "other" was? Chewbacca?

Is that all you got? Don't wanna put yourself out there with any actual guess? Imagine that. Its so much easier just to criticize those that do.

No, I didn't add anything because I'm not writing it. But honestly, it's no less vague than your "KILL 'EM ALL" rant. Since you ranted about it first, tell you what. You put yourself out there first and you come up with a good trilogy that justifies killing off the 3 OT principals in the first film and make me believe it's good enough to put my ass in a seat for the next two films following their deaths, and I'll be more than happy to come up with a counter-outline for a trilogy that includes them. And if you start with "Falcon's attacked and destroyed killing all three, kids look into it in film 2 and evil is revealed in film 3 with big battle finale," you might as well go back to the drawing board and start from scratch.

 

[Apophis]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I'm curious, what story there is still to tell about Han that would take 3 films.

I agree with you on a few points, one of them being that I also worry about the on screen look and dialog between aged Han and leia...

It is a worry and could potentially kill the film. If Han were to die I would like it to be an emotional death that takes place by none other then han's actual son. An accidental death of course. Something that can effect that character throughout the 3 films. Yet some how manage it to be a glorious death. But out of those characters it makes more sense to kill Luke not Han... Han can bite it in 9 with a death like I said. It is crazy to kill them off in the first instalment it really would be SH them and that doesn't sit well. Plus I really do think its a major mistake.

Han and leia carrying a big part of all 3 films is also a huge NO. That wouldn't work either.... Ahhhh man I'm just excited that its being done. Sadly even if they are crap I will be seeing all movies. Roll the dice and hope for 6s........... But I have a feeling they will be epic. Didn't have that feeling before the PT, only the feeling of excitement.......

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Who else did you think that "other" was? Chewbacca?



No, I didn't add anything because I'm not writing it. But honestly, it's no less vague than your "KILL 'EM ALL" rant. Since you ranted about it first, tell you what. You put yourself out there first and you come up with a good trilogy that justifies killing off the 3 OT principals in the first film and make me believe it's good enough to put my ass in a seat for the next two films following their deaths, and I'll be more than happy to come up with a counter-outline for a trilogy that includes them. And if you start with "Falcon's attacked and destroyed killing all three, kids look into it in film 2 and evil is revealed in film 3 with big battle finale," you might as well go back to the drawing board and start from scratch.

I'm out there with more ideas than you already. Its your move. I'm curious why you're so passionate they should keep them alive. You must have dreamed it all up to be so convinced. So lay it out there.

 

[Apophis]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Yes Lucas explains " no, there is another" from ESB was to make the audience believe that Luke can be killed at any stage of the film and that there is another... That "other" was never written in as leia... And in ROTJ Luke asks Ben of that "other" that yoda referred to and it is in ROTJ that Ben explains to Luke that it is his twin sister.....

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I'm out there with more ideas than you already. Its your move. I'm curious why you're so passionate they should keep them alive. You must have dreamed it all up to be so convinced. So lay it out there.

I've already stated how the characters can be utilized, which is considerably more than you've done. C'mon, don't be lazy. Tell us how killing them off will work to get everybody on board for two more films.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I agree with you on a few points, one of them being that I also worry about the on screen look and dialog between aged Han and leia...

It is a worry and could potentially kill the film. If Han were to die I would like it to be an emotional death that takes place by none other then han's actual son. An accidental death of course. Something that can effect that character throughout the 3 films. Yet some how manage it to be a glorious death. But out of those characters it makes more sense to kill Luke not Han... Han can bite it in 9 with a death like I said. It is crazy to kill them off in the first instalment it really would be SH them and that doesn't sit well. Plus I really do think its a major mistake.

Han and leia carrying a big part of all 3 films is also a huge NO. That wouldn't work either.... Ahhhh man I'm just excited that its being done. Sadly even if they are crap I will be seeing all movies. Roll the dice and hope for 6s........... But I have a feeling they will be epic. Didn't have that feeling before the PT, only the feeling of excitement.......

Hmm. Glad you threw out some ideas. Not really sure I like the accidental death idea. I think he deserves more sacrificial passing than that, but at least you put it out there.

I'll also say, I'm not excited about Han and Leia's children being involved in the films much at all. I'm sure they have to be if Han and Leia are in it, but it seems too restrictive to make them major characters. The prequels were forced into telling a family tree and I just felt it was restrictive.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Hmm. Glad you threw out some ideas. Not really sure I like the accidental death idea. I think he deserves more sacrificial passing than that, but at least you put it out there.

I'll also say, I'm not excited about Han and Leia's children being involved in the films much at all. I'm sure they have to be if Han and Leia are in it, but it seems too restrictive to make them major characters. The prequels were forced into telling a family tree and I just felt it was restrictive.

Han and Leia's children > Dengar and Yarna d'al' Gargan's children.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I've already stated how the characters can be utilized, which is considerably more than you've done. C'mon, don't be lazy. Tell us how killing them off will work to get everybody on board for two more films.

Yeah sure you have. When you feel like putting up some original ideas let me know.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Han and Leia's children > Dengar and Yarna d'al' Gargan's children.

My thing with the EU is it seemed everyone had to be related to someone from the OT.

Isn't the universe big enough to have new characters that are actually their own entity.

 

[Apophis]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Hmm. Glad you threw out some ideas. Not really sure I like the accidental death idea. I think he deserves more sacrificial passing than that, but at least you put it out there.

I'll also say, I'm not excited about Han and Leia's children being involved in the films much at all. I'm sure they have to be if Han and Leia are in it, but it seems too restrictive to make them major characters. The prequels were forced into telling a family tree and I just felt it was restrictive.

Yes the PT family story was very restrictive but that was only because Lucas had to make the whole story go down 1 direction and that was anakin turning to vader and I believe it left no room for great storytelling and was done very poorly.. Han and leia's kids have no 1 direction to take. their story is essentialy an open book. And I'm not speaking in thrawn perspective either.

And remember Han is an old man now. It's not like the past 30 years he has been taking out star destroyers and making the odd kessell run for some chump change.

So a glorious blaze of glory death would be less fitting then his son taking his life in some battle tragedy to possibly save his mother or brother in the process....

Blaze of glory is for the young scoundrel Han... Old Han losing his life to his own offspring is twistedly an honourable way to exit that world.... Plus leaves a WTF moment and how will this effect said son throughout the trilogy.........

 

[Niltusk]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I hope Han sticks around long enough to tell someone to "GET OFF MY FALCON!" then he has my permission to die onscreen a very excruciating death.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Man. Thats a challenge for me to agree with. "Accidental death" in SW means to me Boba Fett falling into the sarlac. If it was done well, then I'd probably not worry. But just like the idea of blaze of glory, like pulling the Falcon out of retirement and fighting. Something like having the ship incapacitated and ramming it into a Star Destroyer.

Do you have another film reference to make a comparison to your idea so I can see how I feel about that?

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

My thing with the EU is it seemed everyone had to be related to someone from the OT.

Isn't the universe big enough to have new characters that are actually their own entity.

We already know that's not happening. There's no point in even calling it Episode VII if they aren't continuing on with the established characters. As I said before, if they use Leia like Mon Mothma, and Luke like Obi Wan that just leaves Han who can be utilized as anything from transportation, to rescue force to advising general (he has military experience in both the Empire and the Alliance). Hell, having him retired and having to come out of retirement to save Leia who was kidnapped, etc., can be just as fun. Think a slightly less violent Munny from Unforgiven. The key is to phase them into background characters so they can essentially go from main principals to a supporting cast for those intended to carry the franchise into the future.

 

[Apophis]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Or even Han dies sacrificing himself for his own child that has gotten into some serious trouble... Insert jabbas grand slug bahahahaha

The apple doesn't fall to far from the tree sort of thing... The son that gets into some serious trouble is just like his father too.. That would be cool to see unfold as a partial part of storytelling.....

So many ways, so many wrong turns but only a few roads that lead to lightning in a bottle I just hope Disney capture that lighting ten fold....