Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Worked pretty ****ing good for ROTJ.

What are you even talking about and how is it related to what you bolded?

What worked well? Drawing 50 year olds? Did they draw 50 year olds to ROTJ?

And by working pretty ****ing good do you mean that ROTJ is the best film in the OT?

Sorry, but you're not making much sense.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

What are you even talking about and how is it related to what you bolded?

What worked well? Drawing 50 year olds? Did they draw 50 year olds to ROTJ?

And by working pretty ****ing good do you mean that ROTJ is the best film in the OT?

Sorry, but you're not making much sense.

Han Solo was kept alive in ROTJ for marketing purposes. That isn't news to anybody.

And despite him cuddling up to teddybears, being the lady in waiting, etc., it didn't tarnish his rep. People didn't whine about him essentially being castrated in ROTJ, they whined about having him shoot second in the SE's. He's still a favorite character. So it worked out pretty well for ROTJ even now, almost 30 years later, not killing him.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I agree with that. Keeping him alive was fine. Gave them a happy ending. As I said earlier, for me this is a different scenario than ROTJ.

 

[Magpie 7]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I agree with that. Keeping him alive was fine. Gave them a happy ending. As I said earlier, for me this is a different scenario than ROTJ.

In a way you've just contradicted yourself again, killing all 3 would kill the happy ending that is required for episode IX. Killing one would serve the same purpose as Obi-Wan butwhat you suggest is the equivilent of killing Obi-Wan, Yoda and Chewbacca in ANH (i know Yoda isn't in it but you get the meaning now we have the prequels).

 

[automaton]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Han, Luke, and Leia face the greatest adversary of their lives within the OT... the story arc was completed. how will their inclusion in the new trilogy not seem tacked on? gratuitous? are we going to be burdened with their children's tale? it took the Sith one thousand years to make their move... how much of a threat can they be after 30 some odd years?

 

[Rorywan]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

You know they won't be able to resist linking back to the prequels as well.
Who will turn up I wonder? Qui-gon, Maul? I wouldn't mind either if it made sense (well as much sense as have a dead Star Wars character come back to life makes)...

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

In a way you've just contradicted yourself again, killing all 3 would kill the happy ending that is required for episode IX. Killing one would serve the same purpose as Obi-Wan butwhat you suggest is the equivilent of killing Obi-Wan, Yoda and Chewbacca in ANH (i know Yoda isn't in it but you get the meaning now we have the prequels).

First of all, not that I need to justify whether I am consistent or not, if I asked you what your favorite car color is and then asked you what your favorite shirt color is, that isn't a contradiction if they turn out to be different answers.

Killing Han off in 1984 before fulfilling the purpose of his character is different than killing him off in 2013 long after his development as a character was complete. To say its the same scenario is just naive.
Lets take your scenario and flip it. Are you suggesting that killing Obi-Wan off in ANH destroyed the eventual happy ending in ROTJ? Or Yoda dying? Or what about when that ewok died. Oh nos!

So why would killing Han off in E7 necessarily destroy the happy ending in E9? Seems like you making the asinine suggestion that Han IS the SW universe. He's 1 character.

You're gonna be up the creek without a paddle if they fail to get Harrison on board.

 

[Kamandi]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Sounds like you can imagine someone else imagining him alive. What do you image specifically?

No spirit Obi-Wan. No Luke watching his early mentor being killed. No direct hatred for Vader, only indirect knowledge via Obi-Wan.

Obi-Wan's death set the stage for so much drama in the saga. Changing that could have had a dramatic effect on how we perceive it.

Ben would have filled the place of Yoda. Luke would have found his anger at Vader from another event. He already believed Vader killed his father, so the stage is set for Cloud City.

Having Luke continue to learn from Ben would have been as dramatic as Yoda. Ben could have died in ROTJ for that matter.

As it was Ben was mourned for less than a minute in Star Wars before the Tie Fighters attacked the Falcon.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Ben surviving and no Yoda or Dagobah? Crazy talk. Glad that they let it go as far as concept art and then nipped it in the bud.

 

[Kamandi]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I can understand the marketing value of Han being in all 3 films, but in the end, if he's there to serve no real purpose other than to draw 50 year olds to the theater in 2020 then that's pandering and not real storytelling.

I don't think anyone accused the Harry Potter films of pandering. The first couple of movies are for kids under 10. The later films are for late teens and young adults. The films grew up along with the audience.

There's nothing wrong in letting Star Wars work for teens and adults. They don't have to tell a grim story, but some better dialogue and a bit more sophistication in the story would be nice. Letting a few older characters carry some plot isn't going to ruin the movie. They'll still find a place for Fassbender and Eva Green or some other young leading actors.

 

[Apophis]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

no...If the film was truly sheeet, then the box office, video sales and toy sales would have shown it to be...not a couple of guys that can type on a forum...LOL

Box office has nothing to do with the result of a great movie.

Now Big Trouble In Little China was a great movie and that flopped in the box office

When you say you like episodes 1,2,3

I have to ask, We're you watching AOTC like this ????

 

[Magpie 7]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

First of all, not that I need to justify whether I am consistent or not, if I asked you what your favorite car color is and then asked you what your favorite shirt color is, that isn't a contradiction if they turn out to be different answers.

Killing Han off in 1984 before fulfilling the purpose of his character is different than killing him off in 2013 long after his development as a character was complete. To say its the same scenario is just naive.
Lets take your scenario and flip it. Are you suggesting that killing Obi-Wan off in ANH destroyed the eventual happy ending in ROTJ? Or Yoda dying? Or what about when that ewok died. Oh nos!

So why would killing Han off in E7 necessarily destroy the happy ending in E9? Seems like you making the asinine suggestion that Han IS the SW universe. He's 1 character.

You're gonna be up the creek without a paddle if they fail to get Harrison on board.

You're mis-reading what i'm saying, my argument was that killing all 3 would destroy a happy ending . Killing one off as Kasdan said back in 1983 "introduces the audience to the fact that these 3 aren't immortal and leaves them guessing who's next". The surviving characters can then be shown developing the story.

I'd personally have gone along with Kasdan and Ford and killed off Solo whilst saving Luke and Leia. And i think we've already seen that no one character has dominated the saga as a whole other than Anakin/Vader anyway.

The point about Yoda, Obi-Wan and Chewie was that they're important characters who can still be fresh after 2, 3 or 4 films. If Lucas had made the films in the order of 1,2,3,4,5 and 6 then killed three major and hugely popular characters at the start of the 2nd trilogy would indeed kill the happy ending of the eventual trilogy.

 

[Magpie 7]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I have to ask, We're you watching AOTC like this ????

No but it helps

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Box office has nothing to do with the result of a great movie.

Now Big Trouble In Little China was a great movie and that flopped in the box office

When you say you like episodes 1,2,3

I have to ask, We're you watching AOTC like this ????

In terms of ticket sales and merchandise sales, regardless of how much you hate the PT, it's ridiculous to argue that they weren't successful. When you get into classifying a "good" or "bad" movie, it's 100% subjective, but looking at ticket sales and merchandising is actual proof. The public wouldn't pay to see a movie they hated several times (the box office reflects multiple viewings), nor would they spend billions annually on merchandise from said movie if it wasn't successful. So trying to downplay facts in favor of your opinion, doesn't really work.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

The public wouldn't pay to see a movie they hated several times

No but we'll pay to see a crappy SW movie that has 30 minutes of cool stuff in it multiple times, which is what we all did.

 

[Apophis]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

That's a good point. If watched in that order and according to certain people's views, imagine after 1,2,3 they kill off yoda chewbacca and obi wan,

Hey while there at it Anakins story has been told now so might as well kill off vader in a new hope right ??? Who wants to watch the same characters hey.....

It would be a very stupid move!!!

If you re cast them you don't kill them in the first instalment and if that's the case just start fresh without them and add a "previously" on Star Wars ... Ahhhh the horror.......

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Avatar sucked, I went 4 x for the 3D.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Avatar sucked, I went 4 x for the 3D.

And The King's Speech was great yet I paid to see it zero times at the theater. The notion that box office = quality is a joke.

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I agree Jye. The 3D was worth seeing 4 times.

 

[SixMillionDollarMan Guy]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Avatar sucked, I went 4 x for the 3D.

....