Should There Be a New Rule Made ?

[The Craw]

two new rules.

4.) don't deal with anybody with Terminator/predator related sigs and avatars.

5.) don't deal with anybody with join date past 2008.

take that.

 

[Mr. EcKo]

two new rules.

4.) don't deal with anybody with Terminator/predator related sigs and avatars.

5.) don't deal with anybody with join date past 2008.

take that.

Whoa looks like im F Uk ED

 

[RUMADMAN]

Whoa looks like im F Uk ED

true that!!!

 

[haytil]

Some random thoughts about this...

-Why do you need more rules? That just steers this marketplace to something more and more like Ebay. And there are good reasons we're buying and selling here, as opposed to Ebay.

-There will always be scammers and people will always get screwed. Rules aren't going to stop that - they're just going to restrict people needlessly, making the whole experience more and more unpleasant.

-You want there to be less scammers? Educate buyers and sellers. An informed customer isn't one who's going to be screwed. Protecting people with rules and leaving it at that is actually self-destructive - you lull people into a false sense of security, and that's what leads to them being taken advantage of easily.

-Should you have your own rules? Yes. Everyone should have their own rules, to protect themselves and make sure they feel comfortable. But you shouldn't mandate your own rules upon others who are involved in their own transactions, independent of you. There's nothing wrong with advice, of course.

-Why shouldn't we ask to send Paypal as a gift payment? That avoids the fees - again, another reason we come to buy and sell here, rather than Ebay. Avoiding fees allows overall lower prices. It's also easier - I can look at an item and say "I can afford to sell this for $100." I don't have to think "oh, but knock off 2.5% for Paypal fees, etc."

-And what about the people who don't pay with Paypal? Why should they have to pay extra for fees that don't apply to their case, simply because the buyer had to include the Paypal fees as part of the item price, because of a new rule?

-If you don't feel comfortable sending Paypal payments as a gift, then don't do it. Advise others about the dangers. And if you think it's a big deal, offer to pay the Paypal fees yourself.

Every time I've sold an item, I've asked for payment as a gift. And if the buyer wants protection from Paypal, I have no problem with it if they are willing to cover the fees. I'm sure almost all sellers also feel the same as me - the natural exception being cases of international shipping and items being marked as "gift" for customs, of course. Things get tricky then.

-Like I said, education is key. So I would suggest offering to pay for Paypal fees yourself, as a buyer, and listing that suggestion in the "guidelines." It's common sense, it's good to know, and it lets people do what's easiest for them.

 

[Deak Starkiller]

My $0.02

Uh, bite the bag? I say it's up to the seller and buyer, no business of the boards. But, I don't know. ____ PayPal and eBay and their monopoly of ____ing fees. THIS IS EGYPT!!! I mean SPARTA!

 

[Deak Starkiller]

two new rules.

4.) don't deal with anybody with Terminator/predator related sigs and avatars.

5.) don't deal with anybody with join date past 2008.

take that.

all lowercase makes sense.

 

[YoNoSe]

My Afternoon T-Storms just felt a little Steam Air.

 

[Gunplameister]

Hello all
Well as primarily a buyer here every one of them have been gift with the knowledge of taking a chance of getting jacked, but on the other hand also aware that im able to purchase a lot lower than ebay due to no fees.

Now as having to have put some of my collection up for sale here i have given the option of gift or add 2.5% and in most cases i have even lowered the price of the item to help the buyer out. but like my Berserker for sale no where on ebay are you gonna find one as cheap as mine shipped.

I do love this place for the friends i have made through talking or sales and appreciate the fact that the forum allows us to buy and sell.

I say use your judgment, even pm other members that have left feedback for that person asking questions.

Theres my 2 cents and im crawling back into my hole now.

 

[jstep13]

I use my discretion as to whether I send as gift or not. I know who the reputable guys are around here or are not. Dont ask how I know, trust me, I know.

Beyond that, If a seller wants me to send as gift, and I dont trust them, Ill add the ~3%. No biggie.

And whoever blames people for not shipping outside the U.S., BLAME PAYPAL, NOT US. Paypal screws sellers who ship outside the U.S. if something gets "lost." And Im sorry, its not worth the headache when I can find 5 other U.S. buyers that will present dissimilar headaches.

 

[usswanker]

If you dont like sending payment as a gift then just pay the fees. Its that easy.

 

[Jen]

I think there is a time and place. Besides, there is no real way to enforce the terms of payments.

Also, I have made my own rule. After recently being taken advantage of on a p2 elder deal.
If somebody asks for me to declare an item as "gift" and lower value on the customs forms, then they MUST send payment as "gift". No exceptions. If you request an item is shipped as "gift" and lower value, then you also take the responsibility if something goes wrong.

That way responsibility is on the buyer for their request and they can't turn around and slap a paypal dispute on you (which happened to me).

That is a good way to protect yourself on these type of international transactions.

As a commerce mod - I get quite a few PMs of people needing help with transactions that have not gone well. I always tell people to never mark an item as a gift - unless you know the person very, very well or it is a low dollar amount like $5-$10.

I recently bought a RWOS and the seller asked I mark it as a gift. This seller had no feedback here so I was a bit worried since it was a fairly expensive piece. I said I was not comfortable marking payment as gift, but I would gladly pay extra to cover fees. I think I payed an extra $17. I also used a credit card for double protection...and the package was fully insured. To me, peace of mind, was worth the extra money. I want to know that if something goes wrong - I'm fully covered. Thankfully, the seller ended up being top notch and everything went smoothly.

Now as I buyer - I never ask anyone to send payment as a gift (unless it's for donations for a gift or charity - the less I have to pay in fees means more money for the gift or charity). For commerce transactions, I just eat it. Not a big deal - for an item around $100 it's $2.50. I can't even buy a latte with that and I want my buyers to be protected.

I don't like shipping internationally for a number of reasons. One, I will not mark the item as a gift and I will not declare a lesser value on the item. I sold an expensive piece to a Canadian and they were rather upset that they had to pay all these duty fees. I felt bad for them, but I was not going to screw myself over and lose a statue worth over $1000. Plus, the postal service is getting smart - I think if you are sending something worth $1000+ they are going to have a hard time believing it's just a gift.

Also - for large items it just REALLY sucks. Only certain carriers will take extra large boxes and then depending on the service you are eligible for, sometimes you can not get full insurance for expensive items. Then once the package is outside the US - tracking pretty much becomes non-existent...and once it is out of the country, many carriers say they are no longer responsible for what happens to the package in another country - if it switches over to a different carrier. Too much headache and worry - especially hoping the piece arrives in one piece and the buyer is honest and doesn't try to rip you off saying it was damaged or never received.

I would exhaust all avenues and sell in the states first. Then I would sell to Canada...but that's it for me. I have enough stress in my life...I don't need more.

But back to making new rules - doubt it will happen. We all encourage people to not pay as gift - yet so many people still do. It's up to each individual to do their homework and make sure they are not signing away their protection to save a couple bucks.

 

[Jen]

In my opinion, if any new rules are made it should be that if you get more than two negative feedbacks you lose all commerce privileges or are banned....but that's not up to me to decide.

 

[Mr. EcKo]

Jen , well written

 

[Kabukiman]

I'm willing to bet that Dave would rather shut down the commerce section than to add more rules thereby making this forum a party and partially liable for any deals that go down.

Use common sense, and your chances of getting burned drop significantly. Seller wants you to send money as a gift? Tell him tough and walk away. If not, it's your own damn fault.

 

[Avenger]

In my opinion, if any new rules are made it should be that if you get more than two negative feedbacks you lose all commerce privileges or are banned....but that's not up to me to decide.

At least this would deter those with history here from shady dealings. If you've got several years and thousands of posts, it may not be worth it to screw someone over. But, that also puts Dave in the shoes of deciding if negative feedback was justified and he gets in the middle of the spat, etc.

 

[Jen]

At least this would deter those with history here from shady dealings. If you've got several years and thousands of posts, it may not be worth it to screw someone over. But, that also puts Dave in the shoes of deciding if negative feedback was justified and he gets in the middle of the spat, etc.

Usually when negative feedback is placed - myself or another mod have already been notified of the situation. Often times, we will try to step in and mediate...to me negative feedback is serious and I just don't add it to a person's score without doing a little investigating to make sure it's justified. So basically, we already are getting in the middle of it.

Compared to all the transaction that take place on this board - very, very few ever end up being negative. It's a miniscule percentage...then the commerce mods could just inform Dave when someone's privileges are to be revoked.

 

[Bum]

Ok, I've sold on here and on eBay, and my pref is to sell here.
eBay gets you as a seller when you:
-list the item
-sell the item
-use paypal for payment

on here,
I get charged only once via paypal.

I've sold to Canada and the UK, but you have to realize, it's not just 2.5-3% paypal fees. It's actually 4%. No biggie to some folks, but when it typically costs more to ship outside the US, let alone continental US, and you're typically left to use the USPS, it adds up.

Paypal levies their percentage in the overall payment, not just the price of the goods. If I sold a $100 item, and it's $50 to ship, that's $6 fees. And since shipping is on estimates, it's hard to gauge that. Now say it's a $400 item, it's $50 to ship, now that's nearly $20 out.

I've offered to split the fee halfway at times or negate it if it was low enough, low risk, I knew or have dealt with the person before or they have a good rep... But you have to stop thinking that sellers here sell Just to help buyers get a better price. Sellers sell to sell, and some can price negotiate, some cannot.

Other side of the token, you can take your chances on eBay for that rare item to be low priced, but you compete with the world. Here, just us collectors. If I know the seller, I'd consider paypal gift as a payment but I check to see that it'll ship confirmed and insured, just as I sell my stuff. Otherwise, even recently, I'll pay extra to cover their fees for my own protection.

It shouldn't be a set rule, but it should be up to each individual seller to set the terms of the sale, and for both seller and buyer to set te agreement or negotiate.

 

[ozzfan84]

FYI, Paypal has been catching up with sellers who are accepting gift payments for clear transactions. They have been threatening to charge the fees and no longer allow you to accept gift payments at all. Therefore, you're asking for trouble with Paypal by accepting these kinds of payments to begin with.

Also, up top someone tried to say sellers should be forced to ship international because he lives in Canada. That's insane. In any marketplace, seller's have the right to choose where they'd like to ship.

 

[Deak Starkiller]

Uh, can we create a new rule for this thread? It has been bumped way more than one time in a 24 hour period.

 

[Mr. EcKo]