Kabukiman
Greatest Person Ever
I was gonna read this thread but there are far to many words
Not knowing when/if you're going to get your customs: bad.
Keeping customers informed: hard.
Pros and Cons of dealing with Customizers: things to understand before you buy!
- Thread starter DarkArtist81
- Start date
Help Support Collector Freaks Forum:
Not knowing when/if you're going to get your customs: bad.
Keeping customers informed: hard.
DarkArtist81
Super Freak
cr0w
Super Freak
Bingo.
I'm going on 9 or 10 months waiting on a single painted Joker head. No pictures, last update was a month ago, which promised pictures by the end of that week. Now it's "working on improving technique", and still no pictures.
Close to saying keep the damn thing so at least I won't be wasting my time checking for updates on it.
I would say from the POV of a Buyer, people need patience. If I am told to expect something within an 'X' timeframe, do not bug the customizer every day about it. Given him/her time.
There's only one fix for this situation....
-Make the customs section all about sharing pics & info on your custom works (like it used to be)
-Move the "Custom Commissions" section to the Commerce section & have it enforced with rules & feedback.
There should a date set for delivering goods, for instance anything past 30 or 60 days would qualify for giving the person neutral or negative feedback. People should only list an item for sale once they feel that the product is on target to meet the deadline established by the rules.
Look at the Buy, Sale, Trade section here...it's is well moderated, handled fairly & works out great. The customs section here has just gotten out-of-control & is not the place it used to be.
-Make the customs section all about sharing pics & info on your custom works (like it used to be)
-Move the "Custom Commissions" section to the Commerce section & have it enforced with rules & feedback.
There should a date set for delivering goods, for instance anything past 30 or 60 days would qualify for giving the person neutral or negative feedback. People should only list an item for sale once they feel that the product is on target to meet the deadline established by the rules.
Look at the Buy, Sale, Trade section here...it's is well moderated, handled fairly & works out great. The customs section here has just gotten out-of-control & is not the place it used to be.
Les Walker
Digging my way out!
There's only one fix for this situation....
-Make the customs section all about sharing pics & info on your custom works (like it used to be)
-Move the "Custom Commissions" section to the Commerce section & have it enforced with rules & feedback.
There should a date set for delivering goods, for instance anything past 30 or 60 days would qualify for giving the person neutral or negative feedback. People should only list an item for sale once they feel that the product is on target to meet the deadline established by the rules.
Look at the Buy, Sale, Trade section here...it's is well moderated, handled fairly & works out great. The customs section here has just gotten out-of-control & is not the place it used to be.
I agree with that!
And if such a move or rules set does take place, please start from day one, and don't retro set such rules upon those of us that are trying to dig their way out of personal quagmires, as I would no doubt qualify for some kind of death sentence if such a thing were to happen to me.
But for FUTURE and ONGOING work, I am all for it. IF I ever return to paints for the public, I would gladly abide by such rules, therefore, I support this idea.
It's only reasonable.
Definitely agreed, Les.
You guys will get caught up one day & feel alot less stress. I'd hate to see either of you guys (you & Josh) quit offering your paint services, hopefully when you get all your outstanding orders out of the way, you will feel like starting over fresh & stress free.
You guys will get caught up one day & feel alot less stress. I'd hate to see either of you guys (you & Josh) quit offering your paint services, hopefully when you get all your outstanding orders out of the way, you will feel like starting over fresh & stress free.
Very interesting discussion. This is a fascinating subject to me, as over in Whedonville ever since SS stopped the Buffy/Angel lines the subject of custom figures to fill out the line crops up regularly, but never seems to get anywhere.
It strikes me what variety of experience and professionalism each individual has. Having been in this hobby for 15 years (GI Joe/Dragon basher), it seems a fairly recent phenomenon that there are bona fide pros who do custom work either moonlighting to a day job for the major toy companies or as their main gig to support themselves and their family, where working commissions comprise a significant portion of their income. Most folks (myself included) are hobbyists. This can even include professional artists who visit the boards purely because they are fans of a franchise
In my case, I am pretty much a pure hobbyist where I get a big kick out of customizing my figures, so making heads and repainting figures is purely a leisure thing for me. What with figures coming out of the box at $150 nowadays, the hobby is more and more a rich person’s pastime, and spending $70 for sculpting materials and another $100+ for paints is not unusual. My day job (and not having kids) allows me to afford these with little to no pain. Therefore, the only way I’ve ever handled my custom projects is as a hobbyist--to work on things first and foremost for myself—the licenses I like, the characters I want. Depending on my mood, how tired I am after work, if I have the materials I need, I can work on a headsculpt for years, no joke. However, I am motivated to finish sooner rather than later by wanting to share with other fans. It’s an ego thing to post a head and say, “I made this!” If they come out good enough, I can make copies for sale and perhaps recoup some of the cost for the base materials. If not, I will still have my sense of accomplishment. Regardless, the free market works.
On the other side of the spectrum are the pros. If you’re going to market your talent and services as a customizer, that is a very specific type of relationship you are creating with the other board member(s). You really need a good business and operating model, particularly if you are going to work on commission as opposed to piece-work. You have to have transparency with your customers, not treat them as fellow fans because there’s no legal contract with official boilerplate etc. That’s only fair to your customers to be professional and treat it as a business, even if you’re moonlighting to your day job.
I think where a lot of customizers get into trouble is when they begin as hobbyists and try to transition into professionals. This is especially hard when it’s not a matter of choice. You come across hard times, you need money, so you pimp your talent, so to speak. You accept prepayment, then you’re working on someone else’s schedule and to their tastes and demands. What was once fun becomes a chore. This seems to be the case for both painters and sculptors who accept commissions, though painters have an advantage in that they mostly seem to do piece-work and can accept the head and get to work. Sculpting is a little different. In these situations, you are probably not sitting on a cash reserve creating product to sell to be paid later. To me that would stll be the ideal way to operate a headsculpt—fund your project yourself, then set your price for ready-to-deliver product. If the end product is good and in demand, you can make some serious coin.
Regardless of where you come from the hobby into the position of selling your services, if you are going to accept/offer a commission project, I as a customer would only consider participating on a deposit > progress updates > balance paid > delivery system. I think a 15% non-refundable deposit would be fair to both customer and artist. It would give the artist some start-up capital if necessary to kick-start a project, plus incentive to finish. If the project fails, the customer isn't out too much, and can cross the artist off his/her list of future commissions.
Finally, if you are strictly a customer, it is insightful to know what the costs are to create customs. These are typical costs at my local Pearl and hobby stores:
Sculpting:
Super Sculpey - $15 (recurring, approximately 6 1:6 heads)
Toaster oven - $50+ (one time, because you don’t want to cure Sculpey in the same oven you eat out of
RTV rubber kit - $40 (recurring, approximately 6 2-part head molds)
Resin kit - $35 (recurring, approximately 20 1:6 heads)
Typically, I will put around 10-20 hours into one draft of a head. This is obviously a very individual statistic.
Painting:
Brushes – a good quality brush can run over $7 a piece. You need several of these, as well as the cheapies.
Paints – a bottle of model paint such as Testor Model Master acryls will run $5 for a small jar. Cheaper bottles of varying quality are usually $2 for 4 oz.
A typical head paint job can easily take 10 or more shades and take me an hour or two to final coat.
Obviously, depending on what materials you use (craft-quality versus professional-quality), how quickly you work, other items you need to finish a project, etc., the costs can vary.
It strikes me what variety of experience and professionalism each individual has. Having been in this hobby for 15 years (GI Joe/Dragon basher), it seems a fairly recent phenomenon that there are bona fide pros who do custom work either moonlighting to a day job for the major toy companies or as their main gig to support themselves and their family, where working commissions comprise a significant portion of their income. Most folks (myself included) are hobbyists. This can even include professional artists who visit the boards purely because they are fans of a franchise
In my case, I am pretty much a pure hobbyist where I get a big kick out of customizing my figures, so making heads and repainting figures is purely a leisure thing for me. What with figures coming out of the box at $150 nowadays, the hobby is more and more a rich person’s pastime, and spending $70 for sculpting materials and another $100+ for paints is not unusual. My day job (and not having kids) allows me to afford these with little to no pain. Therefore, the only way I’ve ever handled my custom projects is as a hobbyist--to work on things first and foremost for myself—the licenses I like, the characters I want. Depending on my mood, how tired I am after work, if I have the materials I need, I can work on a headsculpt for years, no joke. However, I am motivated to finish sooner rather than later by wanting to share with other fans. It’s an ego thing to post a head and say, “I made this!” If they come out good enough, I can make copies for sale and perhaps recoup some of the cost for the base materials. If not, I will still have my sense of accomplishment. Regardless, the free market works.
On the other side of the spectrum are the pros. If you’re going to market your talent and services as a customizer, that is a very specific type of relationship you are creating with the other board member(s). You really need a good business and operating model, particularly if you are going to work on commission as opposed to piece-work. You have to have transparency with your customers, not treat them as fellow fans because there’s no legal contract with official boilerplate etc. That’s only fair to your customers to be professional and treat it as a business, even if you’re moonlighting to your day job.
I think where a lot of customizers get into trouble is when they begin as hobbyists and try to transition into professionals. This is especially hard when it’s not a matter of choice. You come across hard times, you need money, so you pimp your talent, so to speak. You accept prepayment, then you’re working on someone else’s schedule and to their tastes and demands. What was once fun becomes a chore. This seems to be the case for both painters and sculptors who accept commissions, though painters have an advantage in that they mostly seem to do piece-work and can accept the head and get to work. Sculpting is a little different. In these situations, you are probably not sitting on a cash reserve creating product to sell to be paid later. To me that would stll be the ideal way to operate a headsculpt—fund your project yourself, then set your price for ready-to-deliver product. If the end product is good and in demand, you can make some serious coin.
Regardless of where you come from the hobby into the position of selling your services, if you are going to accept/offer a commission project, I as a customer would only consider participating on a deposit > progress updates > balance paid > delivery system. I think a 15% non-refundable deposit would be fair to both customer and artist. It would give the artist some start-up capital if necessary to kick-start a project, plus incentive to finish. If the project fails, the customer isn't out too much, and can cross the artist off his/her list of future commissions.
Finally, if you are strictly a customer, it is insightful to know what the costs are to create customs. These are typical costs at my local Pearl and hobby stores:
Sculpting:
Super Sculpey - $15 (recurring, approximately 6 1:6 heads)
Toaster oven - $50+ (one time, because you don’t want to cure Sculpey in the same oven you eat out of
RTV rubber kit - $40 (recurring, approximately 6 2-part head molds)
Resin kit - $35 (recurring, approximately 20 1:6 heads)
Typically, I will put around 10-20 hours into one draft of a head. This is obviously a very individual statistic.
Painting:
Brushes – a good quality brush can run over $7 a piece. You need several of these, as well as the cheapies.
Paints – a bottle of model paint such as Testor Model Master acryls will run $5 for a small jar. Cheaper bottles of varying quality are usually $2 for 4 oz.
A typical head paint job can easily take 10 or more shades and take me an hour or two to final coat.
Obviously, depending on what materials you use (craft-quality versus professional-quality), how quickly you work, other items you need to finish a project, etc., the costs can vary.
ProgMatinee
circlesendwheretheybegin
interesting thoughts.
ashkanls
Super Freak
As a customizer I want the money up front because the person you are making the custom for might end up in a finacial bined. You finish the work, they cant pay. Your stuck with it
ProgMatinee
circlesendwheretheybegin
on a one off request, maybe, but if you're making something remotely marketable it should be easy to sell.
ashkanls
Super Freak
thats true but I have had requests for stuff I have never heard of (DC Charactors) and I know if he didnt pay I wouldnt be able to sell it and if I did it would have one bidder and 5 hits on the auction. With that said I dont do this for a living just a hobby but I still want to get paid for my time.
Last edited:
LoneWolf
Super Freak
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2009
- Messages
- 3,249
- Reaction score
- 11
Just wanted to ask a question.. I had a custom headsculpt done last month, and the customizer said it takes 3 weeks to sculpt it.. He's done with the headsculpt, just needs fine-tuning with the hair, and it will be cast.
I recently learned that he is doing two (2) additional headsculpts on top of my headsculpt - as he posted this in a local toy forum. In his post, he said that he hopes to "finish the two sculpts (from one customer) in one week"..
Is this ethical, for him to work on other projects while working on mine, and mine's not yet done? He still has to paint the headsculpt, so I know it'll take longer. I have been very lenient with the customizer, as he has missed all his promised ETAs (promised to send photo updates after the 2nd week - MISSED by 4 days; promised to send photo updates after 3rd week - MISSED by 3 days)..
I paid him half (50%) of the custom fee instead of his requirement of 33% only, as a gesture of goodwill. I have also referred a lot of members to this customizer, but I haven't received any discount from him or any "thank you".
Please let me know if I have no right to complain. I know we can't rush art, but he should not even make promises if he can't commit to them. Could it be that his head is growing bigger every day as he is becoming the best customizer in our country?
Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you.
I recently learned that he is doing two (2) additional headsculpts on top of my headsculpt - as he posted this in a local toy forum. In his post, he said that he hopes to "finish the two sculpts (from one customer) in one week"..
Is this ethical, for him to work on other projects while working on mine, and mine's not yet done? He still has to paint the headsculpt, so I know it'll take longer. I have been very lenient with the customizer, as he has missed all his promised ETAs (promised to send photo updates after the 2nd week - MISSED by 4 days; promised to send photo updates after 3rd week - MISSED by 3 days)..
I paid him half (50%) of the custom fee instead of his requirement of 33% only, as a gesture of goodwill. I have also referred a lot of members to this customizer, but I haven't received any discount from him or any "thank you".
Please let me know if I have no right to complain. I know we can't rush art, but he should not even make promises if he can't commit to them. Could it be that his head is growing bigger every day as he is becoming the best customizer in our country?
Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you.
ProgMatinee
circlesendwheretheybegin
Its ok to take on new work before finishing an existing commission, but IMO it is unethical to actually begin work on it until the previous commission is complete.
In my experience, customizers are better at selling their talent and taking new money than actually making deliverables.
I think you certainly have a right to complain and I think you have a duty to warn those other people that are beginning to pay him for this new commission that he has yet to finish your commission.
I think the fact that he has not thanked you for bringing in new customers and has treated you this way in response, I think you know where not to take your business to any longer and strengthens your right to complain and warn others.
In my experience, customizers are better at selling their talent and taking new money than actually making deliverables.
I think you certainly have a right to complain and I think you have a duty to warn those other people that are beginning to pay him for this new commission that he has yet to finish your commission.
I think the fact that he has not thanked you for bringing in new customers and has treated you this way in response, I think you know where not to take your business to any longer and strengthens your right to complain and warn others.
LoneWolf
Super Freak
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Thank you for the feedback, bro. I also sent a PM to the moderator of the local forum to see if I should post in the forum (everyone will know it is him, as we don't have much 1/6 headsculpt customizers).. I do not want to make a fuss about it just yet.
I always believed in the You get what you pay for tagline. His talent is awesome, but his price is relatively cheap (compared to customizers in Sideshow Freaks), so I guess this applied.
This will most likely be my 1st and last with him. I've learned to pay more for a more professional sculptor, doesn't matter if it's overseas (for me) or local.
I always believed in the You get what you pay for tagline. His talent is awesome, but his price is relatively cheap (compared to customizers in Sideshow Freaks), so I guess this applied.
This will most likely be my 1st and last with him. I've learned to pay more for a more professional sculptor, doesn't matter if it's overseas (for me) or local.
ffolkes75
Just a little freaky
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I have done some minimal commission work, primarily uniforms etc. My personal policy on those has been you pay when I'm ready to ship. Since this isn't my day job, lots of things can bog up the schedule and I don't want to be holding a customers money while they're waiting for what they've paid for. I've done some sculpting, but for the most part just for myself. I did do one on spec...and the proposed buyer wanted it but couldn't come up with the money. Thats not his fault...like I said, I did it on spec. So I guess unless I have to make a significant cash outlay at the onset of a project, I'll continue with my policy of payment when ready to ship.
Davinator65
Super Freak
Wow! Good thread! I deal with Jon's customs (https://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127022). Although there is a deposit up front, usually $50 to $100 depending on what you want, I don't ask for the deposit until about a week before he starts that project. Usually his projects will take anywhere from a day to about a week. So from the day you deposit the money, the job should not take more than 2 weeks. Plenty of room for dispute on Paypal.
Well, since 2006 I've made close to 100 customs for people.
I always set specific terms to the custom figure and
also do a very detailed invoice that will list exactly what
they'll get down to the smallest thing.
I always ask for 50% up front with the BIF being due
when they've looked at the final product pictures and
approved it.
The time frame is a rough estimate and that is made clear
from the start. I always try to pad it a little just in case of
unforseen delays. I also do regular updates with pictures
and make sure to keep them in the loop. That's just
being professional in my book.
I think the most important thing is; I never work on multiple
figures unless its the exact same figure. Then it's easier
to do multiple outfits, stand/dio...etc. But that isn't something
I hide either. I often send pictures of the 2 or 3 of the same
figures next to each other and point out wihich one is there's.
I never had anyone be upset with that practice, infact people
tend to like it.
In a nut shell...........
Sellers: Be professional, don't over extend yourself and keep customers in the loop.
Buyer: Be patient, ask for detailed invoices and realistic time frames.
It's just being disciplined. Learn to seperate the artistic from the
business side of it and you'll be fine.
That applies to both seller and buyers.
At least that's my take on it.
Ike @ One Sixth Global
I always set specific terms to the custom figure and
also do a very detailed invoice that will list exactly what
they'll get down to the smallest thing.
I always ask for 50% up front with the BIF being due
when they've looked at the final product pictures and
approved it.
The time frame is a rough estimate and that is made clear
from the start. I always try to pad it a little just in case of
unforseen delays. I also do regular updates with pictures
and make sure to keep them in the loop. That's just
being professional in my book.
I think the most important thing is; I never work on multiple
figures unless its the exact same figure. Then it's easier
to do multiple outfits, stand/dio...etc. But that isn't something
I hide either. I often send pictures of the 2 or 3 of the same
figures next to each other and point out wihich one is there's.
I never had anyone be upset with that practice, infact people
tend to like it.
In a nut shell...........
Sellers: Be professional, don't over extend yourself and keep customers in the loop.
Buyer: Be patient, ask for detailed invoices and realistic time frames.
It's just being disciplined. Learn to seperate the artistic from the
business side of it and you'll be fine.
That applies to both seller and buyers.
At least that's my take on it.
Ike @ One Sixth Global
Last edited:
Mikelpc002
Freakalicious
Thanks for making this thread it really helped
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