Pros and Cons of dealing with Customizers: things to understand before you buy!

[DarkArtist81]

I thought I would start this thread as kind of a guideline for anyone who wants to buy something from an artist or get something painted. Also as a place to discuss the business side of things, what one can expect and what is expected of an artist.

I don't want this to become a place where we bash one artist or another, or bring up sour business deals or past issues. Any such comments will be deleted instantly and if brought up again by the same party will earn infractions.

Fellow custom artists, feel free to talk about what works for you and what doesn't... As for others, feel free to bring up suggestions for discussion regarding how business is done.

Thanks, let the discussion begin.

 

[DarkArtist81]

To start... Some artists have you pay up front, so that they can afford to purchase the needed parts and build the figure. This has several downfalls, in that you must wait for said parts to arrive and that it makes the customer take a leap of faith. It's a necessary evil for those who don't have much money though, as a customer it is your decision whether or not you trust the artist enough to make that leap. Just know that it makes things take longer and most of the time eliminates any chance of a refund in the future.

Some build the figures entirely and sell them already done. This method is preferable, but is expensive and requires solid income to allow. The customer knows exactly what they are getting and has no waiting time whatsoever. It's the best way to do business as a custom artist, but is the hardest to do. One needs money to do so, so only attempt this method if you have cash and can afford to take a loss if they don't sell. The risk here is for the customizer not the customer. The artist risks a lot in this method, but allows for his reputation to never become tarnished and for customer satisfaction to remain high.

 

[uscmhicks]

I think a good thing to post here is that new members should realise buying from a custom artist isn't like buying from a company and rightly so.
Your buying from someone who probably collects the same type of thing but has the talent to make them too !. If a problem comes up on the customizers side refunds aren't always possible and it can sometimes take longer than originally thought.
If these problems do happen the buyer needs to know all this before the purchase so when it comes to it they can at least understand the situation.

I was waiting for heads from Les which I now have ( and there amazing ) and still am from over 5 custom artists on this board but I have no problem waiting at all.
I understood when ordering the custom piece it may take a long time and I know since the customizer himself has great feedback and a good reputation he is trying hard to finish it and he is only trying to make the figure/statue ( whatever ) as good as it can be.


If you understand this before ordering there would never be any arguments and problems. I think the customizers on this board do an incredible job of updating there customers , most of them update there threads daily and answer any questions to there customers asap.

The only problem is with new people joining the board because there so anxious and excited to order they probably wont even read threads like this and simply order.
I think maybe if customizers redirected people to this page ( or maybe a more organised shorter explanation ) before people ordered it may be a better way of doing it.

Its certainly a tricky situation.

I'm babbling on.. I'm tired Sorry !.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Thanks for opening this thread DA, hope it can be kept from getting too personal.

The payment upfront thingy kinda is a sore spot for me. I've been doing it because for the most part its accepted as standard practice. I can understand paying up front for specialty items that may be needed to go into the job. But basic paint and brushes, etc I kinda prefer the customizer to take those indirects out of their own savings and consider it as their own reinvesting in the "business".

I wonder how feasible a retainer or "partial upfront" system would be?

Also, does taking money up front for work you haven't done yet bother any customizers at all? It would seem like lot of responsibility and commitment to put on yourself but on the other side of the coin, where is the motivation considering you're already paid?

The other thing that can irritate a buyer is when the painter is in possession of the head that is being repainted for a long time. I can't believe the people that turn around and mail off a brand new figure to a customizer. I already waited 8 months for these guys, I don't want to wait another 6-8!

I don't know if customizers start early prep on a head and then let it sit till they have time or inspiration, but as a collector, I'd rather be able to keep the head until the customizer says "I'm ready" and then I send the head.

Anyway, those are really my only concerns.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Well said guys! And yes Tay, I think it would be great if customizers would send people here first before taking an order.. just so everyone is on the same page.

And Prog, I know exactly what you mean. Paint and brushes should be paid for out of pocket, which I do myself... mostly when I absolutely HAVE to or else I can't paint.

Payment plans are entirely understandable as well, I've done that myself too. I think it comes down to whatever business agreement that is worked out between customer and artist. I've done work without payment until after, half payment, usually whatever the customer wants. I find that we have to be flexible if we want to keep doing this. Each deal should be approached in such a way, like a negotiation. Money should only be exchanged when both sides are in agreement of what it about to go down.

As for holding onto heads, I hate that as well... I always imagine my customers collections with the headless bodies littering up the place. It really bothers me. Honestly, the best policy here is to just be up front with how behind you are. I've started to just tell people that if they want a repaint it is going to be a while, or else I just tell them to wait until later.

One can never know exactly when it will get done or even how long it will take, it's so hard to assign a time table as it is...and that is WITHOUT a backlog.

 

[Blake]

I agree with all the points listed above. I LOVE all of my DarkArtist custom figures and proudly display them right on my desk at work. Because these are put together on an individual basis by one person, it has to be understood that they take time.

I think that the customizer should provide a ballpark wait time for the item ordered. In doing so, hopefully the emails looking for updates will be reduced greatly. If it looks like the order may take longer than the approximate time given, an update from the customizer would be greatly appreciated.

Please also be realistic. Understand that the customizer is an artist, so if it is going to take 8 months, so be it. As long as there is a general idea of a time frame, that should be acceptable.

The biggest thing to avoid in my opinion is to promise a completion date, miss it, then not expect to be hit with a bunch of emails, PMs, etc. If you miss the date, it is really not a big deal at all, just communicate. The unknown is the worst part!

All of that said, I think the customizers here are second-to-none. Order your figures, understand that they WILL take a certain amount of time, then enjoy the hell out of them when you get them.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Great post Blake!

The trap I found myself in early on was that I gave very generous time tables. I would say that it would take a week or a month, only to have it take much longer. It's a trap, and as a young customizer I wish I would have known to just leave it vague. When I gave a specific one, something would always come along and screw up my plan, whether it was my Wife and some family outing or something stupid like weather or school...whatever.

I find it best to just say it will take a while and leave it at that.

 

[Les Walker]

When I am caught up, and can think properly about what to say, I will contribute to this thread. Anything else I say, may just be a complaint related aspect to an art that should be a fun and exciting extra you can add to your figures.
When I have something valuable to add here, I will. Til then, pray, continue the dialogue. If I dissagree with something, I may chime in, but I am not the best person to say much here now.
Except, DON'T DO WHAT I DID! Do not let the work pile up. Period.
Deal with a customizer or painter or sculptor who is fast, informative, even if that means mass updates, and you CAN keep up with those if need be, I know, because I can, and who has a reasonable turnaround. IF they can state a date, better yet. At least a goal. Things do come up. Exceptions have to be made, but the person doing the work needs to be honest either way. Try to be as understanding as possible.

Other than that, let me just read and learn.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Well said Les!

The single most important piece of advice that either you or I can give to any new customizers... is... KEEP YOUR BACKLOG SMALL! If it grows too fast, slow down the orders and get it out of the way. Don't allow yourself to get put into a corner, it can happen faster than you can imagine.

Do your work quickly and efficiently, and if you feel like things are getting out of hand...take a break. And most of all, have a fall back plan. Have something else you can do for money, don't focus entirely on this work. Or else you will find yourself taking jobs simply to pay bills and getting yourself even further behind.

 

[Blake]

The trap I found myself in early on was that I gave very generous time tables. I would say that it would take a week or a month, only to have it take much longer. It's a trap, and as a young customizer I wish I would have known to just leave it vague. When I gave a specific one, something would always come along and screw up my plan, whether it was my Wife and some family outing or something stupid like weather or school...whatever.

I find it best to just say it will take a while and leave it at that.

It's very natural to give generous (week, month) time frames because by nature you guys love to please. I feel you want every single aspect of the transaction to be pure gold, from the sculpt to the paint to the wait time. Trouble is, it's impossible to have all three! Either a quick turn around with a good sculpt and rushed paint, or a work of genius that takes months to do.

Trust me, people have seen LOTS of pictures of what you guys do. We know what is in store for us when that package arrives. Because we know the end-game, a more accurate representation of the amount of time it will take will not make the transaction any less perfect.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Yeah, you are right Blake... The big trick is finding out what your real time table is, and adding just a little more time to that when you give the time table to the customer. That way you have a buffer.

 

[Ultramanimator]

I think my biggest pet peeve is updates. As a working artist, I know what it's like to try and create exceptional work on a schedule. I never take on more work than I can handle. I always deliver the best work I can. And I ALWAYS keep the client updated. I can't tell you how many times I've been thanked for keeping everyone aware of what stage the work is in.

I totally except that custom, hand made figures take a while, but when you set a delivery date and can't make it, just let me know. I recently dealt with two artists who delivered later than planned, but let me know there would be delays ahead of time. I thanked them for the update, eventually received two beautiful figures and everybody was happy

 

[YoNoSe]

In my experience, customer service is just as important, and sometimes moreso, than your actual skill. IMO, once you take someone's money you have a responsibility to keep them in the loop, especially on a long term project. It takes very little time and effort compared to the bad will that can accumulate in silence.
Maybe some of you busier artists should consider an "update night" every couple of weeks?
Just my 2 cents. I've never had a bad experience with any customizers here.

 

[blakus939]

I would have to agree with that and would expect that from customisers. Not daily, but perhaps half weekly or weekly at best. Like in regular purchases, you pay for goods AND services. If i buy something, i expect 50percent of goods, and 50 percent of service, not 98 percent of goods and someone who can't be bothered. Having said that, i have never had any previous custom work done but have two in the process of being done now, from two of the best custom folks i've seen

 

[DarkArtist81]

Updates are definitely key. My problem has been that my customer list is easily a hundred people, and if I literally went through and emailed them all it would take more time than I have available. That time could be better put to use on painting or school work, etc.

It sucks, which is why I recommend NOT allowing your workload to get so large. It's definitely key to keep it small, not only is it more manageable but it also allows for greater communications. Large workloads only work if you have a staff, and since 99% of us don't.... it's better to remain small.

 

[EVILFACE]

I customize things and know some can take a few minutes and some can day a few days, bit the main beef I think people have, myself included, is the wait time. Once you sent someone $150 for a figure they are to make and it passes that 45 day Paypal period and no update, you can start to get worried a bit.

I also think some bite off more than they can chew. Before you take that next payment, you may want to look at the workdesk and see if you really should take it.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I think the system of using a thread to show updates is totally cool. What kinda annoys me these days is some of those threads are bumped so unneccessarily that its annoying because as a customer you hope it was bumped because of an update or some new pictures of wips. But then its just someone saying "can't believe this thread is on page 2" or "hey, ____, any updates on my item?" Or you got total gushers that have to remind the Joshes or Les daily that they're great. (they are! but do you have to do it daily? MadCow whats up )

I can imagine its a waste of time for customizers to check those threads repeatedly to see if people are really saying important things about them only to see stuff like that.

I know if I had a thread dedicated to myself, I would check it everytime there was a post...lol.

As fans and customers of that customizer, we should understand they know to update it on their own when they have pics or whatever and therefore the thread will be bumped when appropriate.

 

[DarkArtist81]

I totally agree Prog! It does get tiresome. I mean, it's very nice and all... but it just feels like someone poking you with a stick to see if you are still alive. I would rather it drop to the bottom and not be brought back up until I update it or have pics to show. It does nothing but add to my stress level and to the stress of the customers who have waited. Especially those poor souls who have waited for almost a year or even longer, they don't need that kind of pressure....they have enough.

And EF is right as well, definitely do not bite off more than you can chew... even if you think you can handle it or you need the money. It's never worth it and TRUST ME...you will lose in the end. It's better to wait and get to it when you have the money.

 

[Kabukiman]

Here's a suggestion for customizers (if that's welcome here):

You need to keep track of you customers and orders some how, I'm guessing many use an Excel spreadsheet. Well, Excel has a "save as HTML" function. Whenever you update your spreadsheet, shoot the html to some web space and then you have instant updates for all your customers. And if you don't have Excel, you could always use Google Docs.

Just a suggestion...

 

[King Darkness]

I was gonna read this thread but there are far to many words