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I really would have loved to have seen female orangutans and gorillas!! I'm still waiting for Verne Langdon to see if they ever made female gorillas in the church scene. Probably not, but Verne was there working at makeup lab.

Isn't the orang in Conquest in the library a female? She or he doesn't have any beard hair under her chin if I recall.

Off the topic a little but if you watch the Star Wars movies the Empire doesn't have one female at all.
 
Isn't the orang in Conquest in the library a female? She or he doesn't have any beard hair under her chin if I recall.

Off the topic a little but if you watch the Star Wars movies the Empire doesn't have one female at all.

How sexist of the Empire. :mwaha
 
Isn't the orang in Conquest in the library a female? She or he doesn't have any beard hair under her chin if I recall.

Off the topic a little but if you watch the Star Wars movies the Empire doesn't have one female at all.

You're right! That is a female orang in the library.:clap
 
Yes, there was a big debate about that on another group. I still believe it was a female orangutan. I can't remember her name, but it ended in an A, and most of the female names on the Planet of the Apes end in A. Luckily, so does mine!
 
Dr. Zaius, I was going to buy a $600 Zira pullover from Apemania but backed out after I already made a $300 deposit...so I had about $300 to burn. With that money, I bought a raw Zira appliance with the intent to make my own...Another ape friend sent me $150 so I used the rest of the deposit to buy him his own gorilla raw appliance.

With luck, I bumped into my neighbor through the apes yahoo group. Out of the blue I asked him if he would consider making me some Zira appliances on my own lifecast, and he said he would ask his colleague. They took a lifemold in October and have been MIA since.

I just heard from one of them, and they will finish the Zira appliance for me this month. My neighbor will also be Cornelius for the Wondercon so I won't be going ape alone. He said he was mobbed, which is so very very cool.
 
Ironman, if you ever want to go down the 1/1 scale path, it's really fun. I think a gorilla costume would be neat to put together. You would be surprised that if you make everything yourself, it won't cost so much. You just have to invest in a sewing machine and purchase the raw appliance from Apemania.
 
LOL, sewing is something that will definitely not come before I try painting, at least not in the 1:1 scale realm. Though, I must admit it would be great to have a set. Getting to Apemania to get the appliance made would probably be the most difficult part.
 
Isn't that blasphemy for an orangutan?


In a way. The only reason I choose Dr_Zaius as my screen name is because it was the only one that didn't cause me any trouble when I was sigining up. But I dig Dr. Zaius also. He seems to have so many secrets about the Apes past and he guards them with his life.
 
In a way. The only reason I choose Dr_Zaius as my screen name is because it was the only one that didn't cause me any trouble when I was sigining up. But I dig Dr. Zaius also. He seems to have so many secrets about the Apes past and he guards them with his life.

I know a gorilla or two that would like to have those secrets. :monkey3
 
Ironman, Apemania already sells the gorilla appliances that are raw. You just need to glue them onto a pullover hood and paint. No biggie. And then buy the wigs, that's all. If you make your own pullover, then you won't have to worry about gluing the appliance onto your face, and you could re-use it time and again. I don't know if I would want to re-use an appliance after sweating in it all day. Eeew.
 
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My take on this has always been (other than this being a simple plot hole caused by later screenwriters not really paying close enough attention to the first flick) is the "carnivorous gorilla" stage was either Cornelius misinterpreting his finds or else some sort of offshoot or survivor group that wasn't part of the society that became Ape City.

And of course, the apes always knew the truth about humanity, but kept it secret from everyone except a few high level types- Dr. Zaius being one of them.

As Zaius says, all his life he awaited Taylor's coming and dreaded it. He somehow knew the whole story from the beginning, including that humanity had once had a civilization superior to the apes'.

So, for me, all that "animal control" jazz is oppression because it's just a smokescreen to cover up the ape government's true purpose- preventing humans from reacquiring technology and destroying them, or some sort of misguided attempt to prevent Taylor from reinstituting human civilization. Or, alternately, pushing the Alpha/Omega button. Due to the alteration of the timeline in the later (chronologically earlier) films, we can't be too sure what exactly it is Zaius feared so much.

And also the apes' treatment of humans is punishment for having kept them as slaves. To the ape population in general, the humans are just animals. But to apes like Zaius, they are former rivals and enemies who could be that again.

Zaius is the ultimate hypocrite in some ways, but also a desperate creature with complex and somewhat conflicting motivations because of his foreknowledge of a terrible fate awaiting them all. And yet he still plays into Ursus' hands and helps precipitate the final disaster despite this knowledge.

In fact, if he had chilled out, apes might have lost their supremacy but the earth would've continued to spin through space for eons.

Too bad, Zaius! You screwed up, pal.

EDIT: About two minutes ago, I had another thought. Perhaps Zaius wasn't reacting to any Sacred Scrolls prophecies of Taylor's arrival, but rather to his own inference from his insider's knowledge of ape society's true origins that sooner or later, a human would appear with the power of speech, signaling the end of ape supremacy. Maybe that's the implication of his private argument with Taylor after Taylor's trial.

Either way, I think Zaius had multiple motivations, some positive and even noble in a certain light, and many others overly reactionary and paranoid. And in the end, the paranoia won out and he foolishly went to war with Ursus.

I must respectfully disagree. Personally, I cannot shake the fact that the films after the original classic are simply just afterthoughts... financial imperatives decreed by Fox suits. I have found no way to successfully connect all of the films in a satisfying way for me.

And Cornelius was not wrong... his evidence is uncontestable. It's just that his evidence cannot support those shaky sequels that came afterward. Remember... the first was was to stand alone.

Here are just a few of the hard to swallow plot bits that followed after the classic film:

- Zaius was a moral authority in the first film. And he had some of the greatest lines in the entire film series...arguably some of the greatest lines in science fiction cinema. So... how did the gorillas, namely General Ursus take control of the Ape culture. Was there an uprising? How did Zaius and the rest of his orangutan clan lose control? And in such a short span of time.

-Wasn't Cornelius and Zira going to stand trial for hearsy? What happened? However, in the sequel, not only is Zaius providing house calls to Cornelius and Zira but practically hands them the fate of the Ape culture. "I'm relying on ya both." Sheesh.

- Where was Taylor's dog tags (the ones he gives Nova) during the first film? Instead of grabbing Zira's note pad, he should have just handed her those tags. That would have sped up things a bit.

- The sequel also calls to questions Taylor's original mission. In the first film you get the impression that it was a one way trip... Stewart was to be the new Eve to whatever new world they found. Yet Brent pops up looking for the lost Taylor. Was he really lost?

-Taylor rages against the human race as the ones who "wages war against his brother... keeps his neighbor children starving". Yet his character arc has him destroying the entire planet? Why... because Nova dies? I don't believe it for a minute. Where is Joss Whedon when he need him?

-The exchange between Taylor and Zaius at the end of Beneath when he about to destory the planet should be epic, memorable and quotable. It's none of those. Taylor simply proves Zaius right. All he says is "Zaius you bloody bastard." Lame.
 
I must respectfully disagree. Personally, I cannot shake the fact that the films after the original classic are simply just afterthoughts... financial imperatives decreed by Fox suits. I have found no way to successfully connect all of the films in a satisfying way for me.

And Cornelius was not wrong... his evidence is uncontestable. It's just that his evidence cannot support those shaky sequels that came afterward. Remember... the first was was to stand alone.

Here are just a few of the hard to swallow plot bits that followed after the classic film:

- Zaius was a moral authority in the first film. And he had some of the greatest lines in the entire film series...arguably some of the greatest lines in science fiction cinema. So... how did the gorillas, namely General Ursus take control of the Ape culture. Was there an uprising? How did Zaius and the rest of his orangutan clan lose control? And in such a short span of time.

-Wasn't Cornelius and Zira going to stand trial for hearsy? What happened? However, in the sequel, not only is Zaius providing house calls to Cornelius and Zira but practically hands them the fate of the Ape culture. "I'm relying on ya both." Sheesh.

- Where was Taylor's dog tags (the ones he gives Nova) during the first film? Instead of grabbing Zira's note pad, he should have just handed her those tags. That would have sped up things a bit.

- The sequel also calls to questions Taylor's original mission. In the first film you get the impression that it was a one way trip... Stewart was to be the new Eve to whatever new world they found. Yet Brent pops up looking for the lost Taylor. Was he really lost?

-Taylor rages against the human race as the ones who "wages war against his brother... keeps his neighbor children starving". Yet his character arc has him destroying the entire planet? Why... because Nova dies? I don't believe it for a minute. Where is Joss Whedon when he need him?

-The exchange between Taylor and Zaius at the end of Beneath when he about to destory the planet should be epic, memorable and quotable. It's none of those. Taylor simply proves Zaius right. All he says is "Zaius you bloody bastard." Lame.

You make good, logical points. I hadn't even thought about Taylor suddenly having dog tags again. It can be hard to reconcile many things. I do think Roddy McDowall summed it up best, though, by saying that you have to forget the inconsistencies and watch each film as it's own entity in the series and decide if it's a good film on its own. I love "Escape" even though there is no way that Cornelius, Zira, and Milo could somehow drag Taylor's spaceship out of the ocean, repair it, and learn to fly. However, it's still my favorite sequel. And using Roddy's advice it works.
 
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You make good, logical points. I hadn't even thought about Taylor suddenly having dog tags again. It can be hard to reconcile many things. I do think Roddy McDowall summed it up best, though, by saying that you have to forget the inconsistencies and watch each film as it's own entity in the series and decide if it's a good film on its own. I love "Escape" even though there is no way that Cornelius, Zira, and Milo could somehow drag Taylor's spaceship out of the ocean, repair it, and learn to fly. However, it's still my favorite sequel. And using Roddy's advice it works.

I was never a real fan of ESCAPE because of this ship repair thing but I do love the visual of the three on the beach in the astrosuits.

BB
 
being an apes fan and a stickler for consistencies is comparable to Dr. Zaius being the Minister of Science and Chief Defender of the Faith...
 
I was never a real fan of ESCAPE because of this ship repair thing but I do love the visual of the three on the beach in the astrosuits.

BB

I like that scene too. I wish the original opening that was filmed (but effects never completed) would turn up eventually - where the three witness the Earth explode.

escapelost.jpg
 
I love watching Escape, as it too is my favorite sequel. I love the bloody and tragic ending. I love everything about it. Maybe for 2011, I will make my own Escape Zira 1/1 scale outfit.

I just suddenly remembered the name of the female orangutan in Conquest...wasn't her name Zelda?
 
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