Paypal and Outer Packaging Claim

[darthman]

Being in this hobby, you should know the color art box is important. It is my absolute pet peeve when sellers on ebay don't protect the box adequately. Hot Toys and Sideshow figures come with their brown cartons, but even still this is not enough. When I ship a HT or Sideshow brown carton, I put it inside another padded shipping box. That's how I ship cause I know how upset I get when I'm in the buyer's shoes. Once a seller shipped me a hot toys carton without any outer shipping box, the carton came punctured and the art box inside was damaged. I know how it feels, so I don't do that to buyers.

If it's enough for HT or sideshow, why when selling the same item should any one else be expected to put a shipping box inside a shipping box inside a.....zzzzzz

 

[Emerald74]

I had someone file a claim against me on Ebay,but it wasn't for a figure. The buyer claimed that the item that I sold him was not as described,and it was.

Ebay in the end saw neither one of at fault,Ebay paid him back,and he got to keep the item.

 

[T-1250]

My first post, but I've been around for a long time. This post kind of hit home, haven't used eBay for years. Something to think about, I've had buyers who owned an item that was damaged, buy the same from me. Then claim the item I sent was damaged. Swap the two and file a claim. They end up with the mint item and I end up with the damaged item.

 

[tomandshell]

Paypal will pretty much side with the buyer 100% of the time no matter what the buyer says...short of them coming up with a completely absurd lie.

This has been my experience. As soon as the buyer initiated a claim, money was taken out of my Paypal account and put "on hold." The kind people at Paypal have access to your bank account and if they side with the buyer, which they always do, they will either take money out of your Paypal account or directly from your checking account. Once somebody decides to complain, as a seller you are pretty much helpless.

 

[Balsquat]

Thanks to everybody for the input. I will update this thread with the final results and the persons name once paypal comes to a decision.

For the record, Paypal has ruled in my favor before as a seller, so I do have some faith in the system. We shall see if that faith is not unfounded.

 

[yeha]

That is one big fag, he/she probably trying to take advantage of the Paypal system. For a P2 elder, the buyer probably paid $750-800US for it. For he/she to ask for a $500 refund (because the box was dinged) its just ridiculous. If i were you i wouldn't even offer the $200 and just ask him/her for the figure back and issue a full refund. (The worst thing to do is this guy might damage the figure before returning to you since he/she is such a fag in the first place)

Despite how the case goes, I would suggest to spill this guy name out anyway just so the seller on the board to be aware or cautious when dealing with this guy.

 

[YoNoSe]

Paypal has sided with me as a Seller recently after I made attempts to amend the situation. When I called and spoke to a rep they were savvy to the "partial refund" scam that many buyers pull.

BUT I had offered a full refund upon return, which the buyer refused to do.

Hope it works out for you, Balsquat. It really is hazardous to sell on Ebay these days.

 

[Grosby]

If it's enough for HT or sideshow, why when selling the same item should any one else be expected to put a shipping box inside a shipping box inside a.....zzzzzz

Because you're not a big business that's willing and able to replace items with little issue, to take such things on the chin? If it came damaged from Sideshow and other such places you'd surely complain and expect (and likely receive) a replacement. You even have someone on the first page saying their items from Sideshow have come damaged...

It sounds like he's possibly being scammed, but at the same time I agree with the person before that said he should've done more to protect the package then just place it in a cardboard box (unless I've misunderstood how he packaged it). There's good reason why no one is reading this topic and having a hard time believing that one layer of cardboard could be penetrated during transit, it's no surprise that no one's shocked by that happening. Regardless of how Sideshow and so forth might choose to pack their items, we've all surely received countless packages from here and there that have been severely banged up, I feel you should have had that in mind.

I don't mean to poop on the man, but I think if any lesson's to be learned here it's perhaps that he invest in a $2 roll of bubblewrap every now and then, do something more to protect packages than just a single layer of cardboard, particularly when sending such expensive items. You put things in the mail and it's not floating to the recipient on a little pillow, it's smashed about everywhere and you've got to consider that every time you post. Crap happens that is unavoidable but in this case it feels like from the way he said he packaged he should've perhaps half-expected it to arrive damaged. While I hope it works out for him, it does sound to me, from what he's said, that he was quite thoughtless in his packaging.

 

[Balsquat]

Because you're not a big business that's willing and able to replace items with little issue, to take such things on the chin? If it came damaged from Sideshow and other such places you'd surely complain and expect (and likely receive) a replacement. You even have someone on the first page saying their items from Sideshow have come damaged...

It sounds like he's possibly being scammed, but at the same time I agree with the person before that said he should've done more to protect the package then just place it in a cardboard box (unless I've misunderstood how he packaged it). There's good reason why no one is reading this topic and having a hard time believing that one layer of cardboard could be penetrated during transit, it's no surprise that no one's shocked by that happening. Regardless of how Sideshow and so forth might choose to pack their items, we've all surely received countless packages from here and there that have been severely banged up, I feel you should have had that in mind.

I don't mean to poop on the man, but I think if any lesson's to be learned here it's perhaps that he invest in a $2 roll of bubblewrap every now and then, do something more to protect packages than just a single layer of cardboard, particularly when sending such expensive items. You put things in the mail and it's not floating to the recipient on a little pillow, it's smashed about everywhere and you've got to consider that every time you post. Crap happens that is unavoidable but in this case it feels like from the way he said he packaged he should've perhaps half-expected it to arrive damaged. While I hope it works out for him, it does sound to me, from what he's said, that he was quite thoughtless in his packaging.

If your a mint in box collector, go and buy your stuff from a brick and mortar store. That way you can inspect the box to see if it meets your expectations.

The item sold out? Then take your chances on the bay, but expect that your item will take a few lumps in shipping. I don't buy the "sideshow will provide you with a replacement if your box arrives damaged" argument and neither will 90% of the collectors out there. If your going to be picky about packaging, get into another hobby because this one is done mostly by mail and a few bumps and bruises is not unreasonable. If my box got crumpled, my first reaction would not be "the seller owes me some money for this", my first reaction would be "Thank goodness my figure arrived in perfect condition" (which I assure you it did). Particularly after I state to the seller "I will take the risk" by not having it insured to save on customs. If condition of the box was such a big deal, he should have let me insure it in full. No, the ****** want's full item protection and does not want to pay customs for it.

So let's just blame the seller....

I have over 70 feedback on this forum without a neg. I know how to ship an item and this was indeed manipulation of the system on behalf of the buyer.

 

[Grosby]

I'm not saying the buyer is in the right here, a lot of it sounds certainly very suspicious, I am just saying rather that from what you've said it does seem you did the bare minimum as far as packaging is concerned. Who is to pay for that in the end though, I don't know, I was making no comment on that.

I just think that you should really put in a little more thought into packaging, if not to ensure that the buyer receives exactly what is advertised then at least to save yourself from getting into situations like this (assuming the package was legitimately damaged in the mail).

As far as who should pay in the end and what should happen, I think that's a debatable issue, but as to who's responsible for the package arriving damaged I'd say that definitely falls on you in this particular instance.

Particularly after I state to the seller "I will take the risk" by not having it insured to save on customs. If condition of the box was such a big deal, he should have let me insure it in full. No, the ****** want's full item protection and does not want to pay customs for it.

No, it probably was a big deal to him that it arrived in the condition described but at the same time saving money by cutting corners probably spoke to him too. It's wrong of him, sure, it's definitely a d_ck move, but it shouldn't surprise you as much as it seems to.

On this matter, you also say he "should have let me insure it in full." This though was in reality up to you to grant or refuse. I understand why you would do it, a lot of people do, but you should at least accept and understand the role you played in that decision.

If my box got crumpled, my first reaction would not be "the seller owes me some money for this", my first reaction would be "Thank goodness my figure arrived in perfect condition" (which I assure you it did).

You seem to be overlooking that the box is a part of the product. It's part of what the person is buying. Just as you sit there and say "thank goodness" that your figure arrived in perfect condition, others look over the box and hope to say the same. While I don't worship the boxes, they certainly have their value, they're not the glorified shipping boxes that you're trying to make them out to be. Maybe you can't understand why people want the box to be of a certain condition, or why they want the box at all, but you should at least be able to accept that they have these wants.

You seem to at least recognise the value of the figure itself, that's good. In future, when sending items, perhaps a helpful exercise would be to think of the box as one big square figure and protect it as in just the same way you'd expect others to protect a loose figure that you might order online...

I think you're playing dumb here, really. Maybe I'm wrong but I would bet you advertised it as mint in the box, you described the condition of the box, etc, etc. I think you know perfectly well what a selling point the box's condition is and what a negative it would be if it was damaged or missing.

If your a mint in box collector, go and buy your stuff from a brick and mortar store. That way you can inspect the box to see if it meets your expectations.

The item sold out? Then take your chances on the bay, but expect that your item will take a few lumps in shipping.

This is a very strange attitude. While it may take a little time and effort, I assure you it is possible to ship an item from one place to another and have it arrive without any damage, millions achieve this every day. It's well within the abilities of all. I'd say that you definitely fall in the minority in your notion that shipping damage is part of all deals.

I think I'm coming off as argumentative here but I really don't mean to. I'm not trying to insult you either (although I do think you have a strange outlook and I'm wondering if it's not disingenuous). It's just overall I think a curious and fascinating situation, that's all I'm here for, I find it an interesting discussion is all.

 

[Darth Waller]

I hope everything works out for you, Balsquat.

If not, please PM me his eBay ID. Sounds like someone I would want to block.

 

[Balsquat]

You are entitled to your opinion and that is fine. I do understand the value of a box and am not nieve or disingenuous. It all comes down to priorities:

1) When I ask people to mark items at lower values and gifts (and I mostly do), I understand the risk involved. While I would love a perfect box, damaged packaging is often a reality. Now, is that packaging worth having it insured at full value and have to pay between $30 - $50 on customs for the standard Hot Toys figure? No. So if the box takes damage or the item does not arrive at all, thats the game I play when declaring at a lower value.

2) The custom fees on this piece would have been upward of $200 for the customer. I was specifically told to lower the value. I reiterated to the buyer that would mean that he is taking a risk if anything that could go wrong because I could only make a claim for the insured value. They accepted the terms and thanked me twice for helping them avoid extra fees. I took great care in packing the item, but I packed it like I would any Hot Toys item.

And I don't have my own bizarre packing method. I pack these things the same way people pack things for me. The way toys2 and sideshow does. The way senior members of this forum do.

You know what? i was honestly trying to help this guy out. So much so that I offered him $100 partial refund. $100! That must show you that I acknowledge the value of the art box, but it was not enough. They want $500. Their excessive greed is how I knew they were a swindler.

Anyways, my priority will to be more protective of myself. End of story.

I'm not saying the buyer is in the right here, a lot of it sounds certainly very suspicious, I am just saying rather that from what you've said it does seem you did the bare minimum as far as packaging is concerned. Who is to pay for that in the end though, I don't know, I was making no comment on that.

I just think that you should really put in a little more thought into packaging, if not to ensure that the buyer receives exactly what is advertised then at least to save yourself from getting into situations like this (assuming the package was legitimately damaged in the mail).

As far as who should pay in the end and what should happen, I think that's a debatable issue, but as to who's responsible for the package arriving damaged I'd say that definitely falls on you in this particular instance.



No, it probably was a big deal to him that it arrived in the condition described but at the same time saving money by cutting corners probably spoke to him too. It's wrong of him, sure, it's definitely a d_ck move, but it shouldn't surprise you as much as it seems to.

On this matter, you also say he "should have let me insure it in full." This though was in reality up to you to grant or refuse. I understand why you would do it, a lot of people do, but you should at least accept and understand the role you played in that decision.



You seem to be overlooking that the box is a part of the product. It's part of what the person is buying. Just as you sit there and say "thank goodness" that your figure arrived in perfect condition, others look over the box and hope to say the same. While I don't worship the boxes, they certainly have their value, they're not the glorified shipping boxes that you're trying to make them out to be. Maybe you can't understand why people want the box to be of a certain condition, or why they want the box at all, but you should at least be able to accept that they have these wants.

You seem to at least recognise the value of the figure itself, that's good. In future, when sending items, perhaps a helpful exercise would be to think of the box as one big square figure and protect it as in just the same way you'd expect others to protect a loose figure that you might order online...

I think you're playing dumb here, really. Maybe I'm wrong but I would bet you advertised it as mint in the box, you described the condition of the box, etc, etc. I think you know perfectly well what a selling point the box's condition is and what a negative it would be if it was damaged or missing.



This is a very strange attitude. While it may take a little time and effort, I assure you it is possible to ship an item from one place to another and have it arrive without any damage, millions achieve this every day. It's well within the abilities of all. I'd say that you definitely fall in the minority in your notion that shipping damage is part of all deals.

I think I'm coming off as argumentative here but I really don't mean to. I'm not trying to insult you either (although I do think you have a strange outlook and I'm wondering if it's not disingenuous). It's just overall I think a curious and fascinating situation, that's all I'm here for, I find it an interesting discussion is all.

 

[Balsquat]

UPDATE: The buyer has accepted my offer of $200 to drop the claim.

In the end, he got the hand-out he wanted and I did not completely break the bank. This was 2 months of misery for a measly $200. What a goof, good riddance.

His ebay name is: neohexdeath

Block away boys.

Also, ebay says his location is from "United States", but his location of residence according to paypal is "Mexico". Not sure how that is allowed.

 

[Darth Waller]

Block away boys.

Thank you, sir!