Nature of market for 1:6 scale figures

[bikes]

I'm a bit new into collecting 1:6 figures so please bare with me

Anyway, noticed that most of the 1:6 figures (ESPECIALLY Marvel and DC related) made by makers such as Hot Toys and Enterbay get a huge spike increase in its market value upon arrival / distribution of the actual figures. For example, the HT DX11 Joker 2.0 was around the area of USD 230-240 when it was up for pre-order but now has a market price of around USD 300 onwards. HT Iron Man Mark VII was pretty much the same, except that selling price is even a bit higher. Apart from some figures such as Red Skull and Goblin, it's safe to say that majority of them see their prices skyrocket upon the figure's actual arrival.

Can anyone explain to me the driving force behind this? Also wondering if companies such as HT and Enterbay just mass produce these figures and completely stop doing so after just 1 initial run? I mean, for example, do they just set an allocation for a certain figure (hypothetically 10,000) and once they have distributed it, stop producing another batch even if the sales are very strong?

Am very interested in getting your insights on this guys, thanks

EXTRA NOTE:

I understand why prices increase on Ebay. Obviously, demand is high while supply is not enough. However, what I would like to know is why doesn't HT just produce another batch for these? Or do they? For figures such as Iron Man Mark VI / Hawkeye / Dark Knight DX12 / Joker DX11 etc, I'm sure they'd sell like hotcakes. Why let the scalpers / resellers earn if they can just reproduce another batch and have the profit for themselves? Not saying that they should triple or quadruple the figures for the next batch of reproduction - as that would be very risky on their part. Just a safe number would do so they can also keep the frenzy and the hype on their figures.

I'm sure a company as huge as Hot Toys keeps the data and mold for most (if not all) of their figures. Even if starting up another run would cost them, I'm pretty sure they'd get enough profit back for the sought after figures such as Mark VI / Hawkeye. Let's put it this way, for example, they did an initial run of 3,000 pcs (hypothetically) for IM Mark VI / Hawkeye. If they matched their first run of 3,000 pcs on their 2nd run, it's probably safe to say that the new 3,000 pcs would also sell out - which means they would have matched the profit on their first production run. So why not just do this instead of sitting idly by and watch the scalpers make a living that could have easily been theirs (Hot Toys)?

If someone has information on how HT or Enterbay's production works, that would be very helpful to the topic on hand.

 

[SurlyJ]

Pretty sure it's because they produce these only to preorder amounts in many cases, so once they are released there aren't really any/many just available for ppl who didn't preorder to buy.

 

[SAB]

I'm a bit new into collecting 1:6 figures so please bare with me

Anyway, noticed that most of the 1:6 figures (ESPECIALLY Marvel and DC related) made by makers such as Hot Toys and Enterbay get a huge spike increase in its market value upon arrival / distribution of the actual figures. For example, the HT DX11 Joker 2.0 was around the area of USD 230-240 when it was up for pre-order but now has a market price of around USD 300 onwards. HT Iron Man Mark VII was pretty much the same, except that selling price is even a bit higher. Apart from some figures such as Red Skull and Goblin, it's safe to say that majority of them see their prices skyrocket upon the figure's actual arrival.

Can anyone explain to me the driving force behind this? Also wondering if companies such as HT and Enterbay just mass produce these figures and completely stop doing so after just 1 initial run? I mean, for example, do they just set an allocation for a certain figure (hypothetically 10,000) and once they have distributed it, stop producing another batch even if the sales are very strong?

Am very interested in getting your insights on this guys, thanks

Are you talking about ebay prices ?

That's mainly because there is a significant lag - sometimes a month or so - between when figures are released in Hong Kong and when they finally hit Sideshow in the US (and then other big retailers like BBTS)

It also goes to Hot Toys store first and flies off the shelves there and then to Hot Toys (I forget the term) premium retailers who can jack up the price.

The above goes for Enterbay as well.

This hobby is all about OCD collectors .... and that chance to have it 3 weeks before all the other collectors can mean people are willing to pay a ton more.

...and then there are the small run 'exclusive' versions which people will pay through the nose for in order to get the extra accessory if they miss out on the pre-order.

Hot Toys is very vague with how they set their runs and when exactly their cut off point is. They do make figures in batches but that seems to be more factory logistics than sales planning.

Its a combination of things that cause SOME figures price to go up quickly.

But we don't see it all the time.
Hot Toys Jack Sparrow DX is one of the finest ever but they seemed to have produced such an overwhelming quantity that it sat at retail price (not counting the exclusive version....) for a long long time.

 

[CTO15]

Supply and demand

 

[Darklord Dave]

It is very rare for any of these companies to re-manufacture after the initial run has sold out. By the time the figure or statue hits the market the factory has moved on to new product and it would be very expensive to start up again on another run.

Sometimes they over estimate demand for a figure (Chris Reeve Superman) and it sits around for 6 months or longer. Sometimes they under estimate demand and prices on the secondary market (i.e. "ebay") soar (like Hawkeye).

And sometimes if the demand is incredible (Joker, Iron Man) they will revisit the character with improvements, etc.

 

[potato]

Well nowadays many pop culture followers are also into this hobby because people think it's cool, just like Air Jordan Sneakers, Games etc, usually these folks cause the spike in terms of price because:

1.They don't think much when it comes to spending money

2.They are pop culture chasers, they'd get hold of everything HT & Avengers 1st hand just to look cool among their peers.

3.They don't know much about the hobby, thus they don't know much about the pricing & quality either, thus the Companies selling them started to ignore Quality & increase their base price because they know their products will still sell even if they sucked.

4.Too much demand from these late bandwagon hoppers causing a surge in demand & price.

In the end it helps the hobby getting more exposure & more easy to get in the market & more future releases, at the price of, well, PRICE obviously. But just wait, sooner or later the hobby will cool down as these same Pop chasers shift to other new hobbies, like collecting Barbie dolls.

Barbie doll collectors, brace yourself!

 

[potato]

The reason they don't do reruns is because that will reduce the demand for their products when they 1st launch it, people will stop preordering or pay premium price on reseller market, this will drive the value of their products down.

Unless they foresee a product that can sell & make more profit like Batman series. But i believe HT making so many Batman version out of enthusiasm. Or the Robocop because the new movie relit some spark over him.

It's something like Rolex, they don't do re-runs, it's some sort of punishment for not buying it the 1st place.

That is why:"Buy Now, Regret Later" is the motto for most people.

Also re-issuing old figures should not cost much because they still keep the data & mold for the figures. If not there won't be so many reruns for smaller figures if they really cost that much.

It is very rare for any of these companies to re-manufacture after the initial run has sold out. By the time the figure or statue hits the market the factory has moved on to new product and it would be very expensive to start up again on another run.

And sometimes if the demand is incredible (Joker, Iron Man) they will revisit the character with improvements, etc.

 

[kl241]

That's why Hot Toys does 2.0 versions and Sideshow does "Deluxe" versions. Pretty much a redux with enhanced features/improvements to devalue your original purchase.

 

[bikes]

It is very rare for any of these companies to re-manufacture after the initial run has sold out. By the time the figure or statue hits the market the factory has moved on to new product and it would be very expensive to start up again on another run.

Sometimes they over estimate demand for a figure (Chris Reeve Superman) and it sits around for 6 months or longer. Sometimes they under estimate demand and prices on the secondary market (i.e. "ebay") soar (like Hawkeye).

And sometimes if the demand is incredible (Joker, Iron Man) they will revisit the character with improvements, etc.

Thanks for your input, good analysis. However, let's take the Hawkeye and Nick Fury figures as examples. I guess it's actually safe to say that they underestimated the demand for both these figures. As most of us know, Hawkeye and Fury are very much in demand and sought after in the market right now. So why doesn't HT just produce another batch for these? I'm sure they'd sell like hotcakes. Why let the scalpers / resellers earn if they can just produce another batch and have the profit for themselves?

As Potato said:

Also re-issuing old figures should not cost much because they still keep the data & mold for the figures. If not there won't be so many reruns for smaller figures if they really cost that much.

I'm sure a company as huge as Hot Toys keeps the data and mold for most (if not all) of their figures. Even if starting up another run would cost them, I'm pretty sure they'd get enough profit back for the sought after figures such as Hawkeye. Let's put it this way, for example, they did an initial run of 5,000 pcs (hypothetically) for Hawkeye / Nick Fury. If they matched their first run of 5,000 pcs on their 2nd run, it's probably safe to say that the new 5,000 pcs would also sell out - which means they would have matched the profit on their first production run. So why not just do this instead of sitting idly by and watch the scalpers make a living that could have easily been theirs (Hot Toys)?

Thoughts?

 

[potato]

They only do 2.0 on those Batman. If they do 2.0 on other sold out figures, trust me demand for HT will fall, so goes with their sales number.

They are smart to keep a balance between their supply limited. Just like Rolex.

That's why Hot Toys does 2.0 versions and Sideshow does "Deluxe" versions. Pretty much a redux with enhanced features/improvements to devalue your original purchase.

 

[potato]

They do it if really necessary. If not they just move on. They rather produce new Toys than do reruns & 2.0, as even though they might sell & profit out of it, it will reduce the demand for HT products.

Everyone will be sitting back, waiting for reviews & 2.0 improvements instead of preordering it and some paying full price on preorders.

So why not forget about them and focus on new lines where people will continue to preorder?

I'm sure a company as huge as Hot Toys keeps the data and mold for most (if not all) of their figures. Even if starting up another run would cost them, I'm pretty sure they'd get enough profit back for the sought after figures such as Hawkeye. Let's put it this way, for example, they did an initial run of 5,000 pcs (hypothetically) for Hawkeye / Nick Fury. If they matched their first run of 5,000 pcs on their 2nd run, it's probably safe to say that the new 5,000 pcs would also sell out - which means they would have matched the profit on their first production run. So why not just do this instead of sitting idly by and watch the scalpers make a living that could have easily been theirs (Hot Toys)?

Thoughts?

 

[evranz]

I'm sure a company as huge as Hot Toys keeps the data and mold for most (if not all) of their figures. Even if starting up another run would cost them, I'm pretty sure they'd get enough profit back for the sought after figures such as Hawkeye. Let's put it this way, for example, they did an initial run of 5,000 pcs (hypothetically) for Hawkeye / Nick Fury. If they matched their first run of 5,000 pcs on their 2nd run, it's probably safe to say that the new 5,000 pcs would also sell out - which means they would have matched the profit on their first production run. So why not just do this instead of sitting idly by and watch the scalpers make a living that could have easily been theirs (Hot Toys)?

Thoughts?

I think somebody else mentioned this point but I'm guessing it's because they have so many products waiting to be produced in their future roster that they don't really have time to go back and do re-runs of popular items. Even if it would be a benefit to them. Who really knows though?
It would be nice to hear some behind the scenes stuff from any of these companies

 

[lerath666]

Additionally, there is an enormous speculator market right now, much like comic books in the 90s.. .and we all know how that turned out in the end..

 

[SurlyJ]

Well nowadays many pop culture followers are also into this hobby because people think it's cool, just like Air Jordan Sneakers, Games etc, usually these folks cause the spike in terms of price because:

1.They don't think much when it comes to spending money

2.They are pop culture chasers, they'd get hold of everything HT & Avengers 1st hand just to look cool among their peers.

3.They don't know much about the hobby, thus they don't know much about the pricing & quality either, thus the Companies selling them started to ignore Quality & increase their base price because they know their products will still sell even if they sucked.

4.Too much demand from these late bandwagon hoppers causing a surge in demand & price.

In the end it helps the hobby getting more exposure & more easy to get in the market & more future releases, at the price of, well, PRICE obviously. But just wait, sooner or later the hobby will cool down as these same Pop chasers shift to other new hobbies, like collecting Barbie dolls.

Barbie doll collectors, brace yourself!

I think you are really overstating the effect "pop culture enthusiasts" have on the high end collectible toy market. Sure, there are plenty of people who you would label 'bandwagoners' to properties such as the Avengers, because they weren't into the comics or characters much before the movie, but I don't know too many circles OTHER THAN those already in the high end collector realm that are even all that aware of Hot Toys, let alone find them trendy and cool.

This is still a very niche market. If it weren't, every comic shop would be ordering all the hot toy avengers in high numbers just to keep in the shelves, instead most only order for their customers through specific preorders, if even that.

Toy collecting hasn't really been trendy since the mid-90s in my opinion.

 

[GE 7]

Well nowadays many pop culture followers are also into this hobby because people think it's cool, just like Air Jordan Sneakers, Games etc, usually these folks cause the spike in terms of price because:

1.They don't think much when it comes to spending money

2.They are pop culture chasers, they'd get hold of everything HT & Avengers 1st hand just to look cool among their peers.

3.They don't know much about the hobby, thus they don't know much about the pricing & quality either, thus the Companies selling them started to ignore Quality & increase their base price because they know their products will still sell even if they sucked.

4.Too much demand from these late bandwagon hoppers causing a surge in demand & price.

In the end it helps the hobby getting more exposure & more easy to get in the market & more future releases, at the price of, well, PRICE obviously. But just wait, sooner or later the hobby will cool down as these same Pop chasers shift to other new hobbies, like collecting Barbie dolls.

Barbie doll collectors, brace yourself!

Man, golden words... because this is also my opinion.
I am a noob and new to the hobby but seeing a $15 poor quality 5" figure going for over $200 is totally stupid... yes, I am talking about Daryl Dixon McFarlane figure.
Since I started my collection it piss me off to see how the prices continuously increasing all over the market and this include all the manufacturer, even Play Arts Kai figures have jumped from mid $50's to $70's in a year because of the demand for them on the second market and the ridiculous prices people are paying for them there.

And by the way... I hate the e-retailers new trend of marking a figure as a "Collectors Grade" and jacking up the price %200 just because they claim they "Inspected it".

 

[Darklord Dave]

Thanks for your input, good analysis. However, let's take the Hawkeye and Nick Fury figures as examples. I guess it's actually safe to say that they underestimated the demand for both these figures. As most of us know, Hawkeye and Fury are very much in demand and sought after in the market right now. So why doesn't HT just produce another batch for these? I'm sure they'd sell like hotcakes. Why let the scalpers / resellers earn if they can just produce another batch and have the profit for themselves?

As Potato said:


I'm sure a company as huge as Hot Toys keeps the data and mold for most (if not all) of their figures. Even if starting up another run would cost them, I'm pretty sure they'd get enough profit back for the sought after figures such as Hawkeye. Let's put it this way, for example, they did an initial run of 5,000 pcs (hypothetically) for Hawkeye / Nick Fury. If they matched their first run of 5,000 pcs on their 2nd run, it's probably safe to say that the new 5,000 pcs would also sell out - which means they would have matched the profit on their first production run. So why not just do this instead of sitting idly by and watch the scalpers make a living that could have easily been theirs (Hot Toys)?

Thoughts?

Having the tooling already done is a huge expense, but I don't think most people realize the enormous problem of scheduling these factories. Neither Sideshow or Hot Toys own their own factory - they have to find one for every project - it's not worth the expense to go make another 2000 figures if the demand is high. By the time they could schedule a factory for this unexpected re-run the demand could have died down.

It's just not worth it to them - especially if they could revisit the character so the original buyers will buy all over again as well as the new buyers who missed out the first time.

 

[potato]

Maybe in USA, but note that toy collecting has been going on for many years, if not always been. Especially Asia & Europe (Italy/Spain).

Perhaps i blamed too much on the bandwagoner pop chasers, but it has to do with the growing population of collectors, many still new & clueless & got into the hobby & has alot of expendable cash.

And because toy collecting getting popular, you'll see people not into the hobby queuing up at conventions just to purchase the items & sell them off ebay. Those that couldn't line up just go into some random toy shop, buy a few hot products and list it off ebay expecting immediate $100 profit.

Back in those days, limited editions/exclusives are available & people who wants them buy it, if it can't be sold it'll be transferred to normal shops for sale.

Simply put that, people used to buy toys for a purpose that does not involve reselling it for profit. Nowdays anything leftover will get scooped by someone because they will be able to sell them for a profit.

And also because these toys come from same region (Asia), thus making it easy to manipulate the price especially over continent sales.

Do you think US toys can do the same as Japan/Hong Kong in terms of price hike? No, because US toys are widely available & in large amount in US, and the fact that other region buyers are not willing to buy items in seriously inflated price.

It's all about buying power. Everyone knows US & Europe has big buying power and even though it's a $100 jack up in price they can still afford it if they really wanted to.

If you compare reseller price for Sideshow 12" vs Hot Toys or Medicom 12", you'll get what i mean. If these companies distribute their products worldwide like Bandai do, scalping would be less of a problem, but then the risk for them would be higher, and demand & value for their products will drop. But then even for Bandai they dare not do such feat for more expensive higher end products like Chogokin line.

I think you are really overstating the effect "pop culture enthusiasts" have on the high end collectible toy market. Sure, there are plenty of people who you would label 'bandwagoners' to properties such as the Avengers, because they weren't into the comics or characters much before the movie, but I don't know too many circles OTHER THAN those already in the high end collector realm that are even all that aware of Hot Toys, let alone find them trendy and cool.

This is still a very niche market. If it weren't, every comic shop would be ordering all the hot toy avengers in high numbers just to keep in the shelves, instead most only order for their customers through specific preorders, if even that.

Toy collecting hasn't really been trendy since the mid-90s in my opinion.

 

[potato]

You underestimated the capabilities of China Factories.

There's tons of Factories begging for a contract.

As long as you have money, they are willing to redo & increase their production schedule. Since they've done it before QA/QC etc is not much of a problem, which is the part where impacts the schedule mostly.

The simple fact is they just want to sell the amount of figs they planned for the amount of profit gained. Making it more will decrease the demands for their product. Think Rolex, Think Ferrari, don't think like Ford (Hasbro).

Having the tooling already done is a huge expense, but I don't think most people realize the enormous problem of scheduling these factories. Neither Sideshow or Hot Toys own their own factory - they have to find one for every project - it's not worth the expense to go make another 2000 figures if the demand is high. By the time they could schedule a factory for this unexpected re-run the demand could have died down.

 

[CloudN]

The reasons for the immediate price hike is because many people noticed that they can make quick money by reselling popular characters because of demands and people coming in to the hobby late. You can see most of the time the hiked up price don't really sell.
A lot of people see the 1:6 figures are good investments. I doubt this can be true now. The figures are produced in larger numbers these days then limited to 3000 back in the day.

As for reissues. I think the toy companies usually signed off a 1 time deal meaning they can make the certain numbers that they contracted for and that's it. The can't go back to production unless they pay the licensing companies addition fee. This helps with keeping collectibles collectibles. That's how these toys hold their value. But this Hot Toys came up with the idea of "improving" their previous releases and make version 2 or DX versions of the same character.

 

[badvoc]

I'll tell you this, some of the recent figures are getting close to the threshold where I will just refuse to buy any new figures. I imagine there are a good few like me who will just not be able to afford it any more, no matter how good the figures will be.

There is no way I'll ever spend over £200.00 on a figure. I remember a couple of years ago now, I was after one of the Ignite Hospitaller figures, and they were like hens teeth, none to be found - eventually I spend £70.00 on one and I spent about a week trying to justify it to myself. Now things have just exploded and the truth is that HT figures are just too damn expensive for me to even consider picking up.

Right now I'm just spending my money with ACI and KP, who produce good quality with prices I can afford.