Marvel's The Black Panther

[pturtle]

Unpopular Opinion of the Century: I never liked Ali...

Also, I'm not liking the focus on New York and the American influence. It seems to me they're going to make him identify with the African-Americans in the early years, ease in some sociopolitical commentary on the current situation and whatnot, but... Wakandas were so isolated and so "savage" (as in "I can save you, but I don't give a damn about you, so..."), they let people starve and looked upon them from their walls. That's right, they had walls to keep immigrants out before Trump was born!

It seems to me they're trying to make T'Challa into a sort of powerful icon for the black American population, when he never was that. The Wakandans have as much connection to the rest of Africa as they have to say, Italy. They look down on pretty much everybody, regardless of what they are. Early Wakanda was the result of T'Challa's genius, but after the Hudlin mess, it's always been a super-duper-OP country.

Dunno, it's just that having him be connected to the US so much takes away from the time it'd take to develop Wakanda as a true country, with customs, a certain religion, the political opposition and whatnot.

Love the Ali robe wearing. That pic has me intrigued, and I'd take the social commentary over just being savages. I have hope this movie takes some risks even if it alienates fans.

 

[Victοr]

And you expected an exact rendition of his comic history 11 years into the MCU why?

Dunno, I figured this'd be the one flick they would Americanize.

Love the Ali robe wearing. That pic has me intrigued, and I'd take the social commentary over just being savages. I have hope this movie takes some risks even if it alienates fans.

Wakandans aren't savages. They have flying cars and the cure for cancer. They're just too racist and apathetic to care about anybody else, other blacks included. And once again, they're taking a fictional country and putting focus on the US once again. Would it have been so bad if T'Challa never interacted with the US before? Wakanda has better tech, teachers, everything. A core aspect of their culture is that they're 100% xenophobic.

If you're gonna make T'Challa stud abroad, then we might as well get a montage of the Wakandas having relationships with the Egyptians, Summerians, Messopotamians, Ancient Greeks, babylonians and whatnot, and having preserved all that knowledge and incorporated it into their country. And all that cheapens the whole thing.

 

[pturtle]

Dunno, I figured this'd be the one flick they would Americanize.



Wakandans aren't savages. They have flying cars and the cure for cancer. They're just too racist and apathetic to care about anybody else, other blacks included. And once again, they're taking a fictional country and putting focus on the US once again. Would it have been so bad if T'Challa never interacted with the US before? Wakanda has better tech, teachers, everything. A core aspect of their culture is that they're 100% xenophobic.

If you're gonna make T'Challa stud abroad, then we might as well get a montage of the Wakandas having relationships with the Egyptians, Summerians, Messopotamians, Ancient Greeks, babylonians and whatnot, and having preserved all that knowledge and incorporated it into their country. And all that cheapens the whole thing.

I don't see what wrong with having to have some ties with the U.S.

He's currently the only decent black superhero in the MCU, the other two guys are forgettable characters. These MCU films are targeted at children anyway, why not do something create something more relatable for the youngsters? If it doesn't disservice the story or character I think that's the best way to go.

 

[Victοr]

I don't see what wrong with having to have some ties with the U.S.

It negates the whole history of Wakanda moot. They had literally no relationships with the outside world until T'Challa met the F4. In the Hudlin run, the Pentagon didn't even know much more than "Wakanda is in Africa". Just because they're black doesn't mean they have to identify with the African-American population.

And see, that's the problem. In the US, colour trumps ethnicity, when it's the other way around. Wakandans look like most Africans, but don't care about them. The same way Germans look like French, but don't have any "common ground", in a way. Wakanda should be explored as a "real" country, with customs, religions, traditions, etc, etc. Influence T'Challa's childhood with the US way of living, and it significantly changes his character.

He's currently the only decent black superhero in the MCU, the other two guys are forgettable characters. These MCU films are targeted at children anyway, why not do something create something more relatable for the youngsters? If it doesn't disservice the story or character I think that's the best way to go.

Luke Cage covered a lot of that ground, and it's just gonna take away from stuff like the Techno-Jungle, the Gorilla Cult and whatnot. Black Panther should be an international-esque character. An "urban US experience" is not needed in this flick. I get why they're doing it, but I ain't liking it.

 

[pturtle]

It negates the whole history of Wakanda moot. They had literally no relationships with the outside world until T'Challa met the F4. In the Hudlin run, the Pentagon didn't even know much more than "Wakanda is in Africa". Just because they're black doesn't mean they have to identify with the African-American population.

And see, that's the problem. In the US, colour trumps ethnicity, when it's the other way around. Wakandans look like most Africans, but don't care about them. The same way Germans look like French, but don't have any "common ground", in a way. Wakanda should be explored as a "real" country, with customs, religions, traditions, etc, etc. Influence T'Challa's childhood with the US way of living, and it significantly changes his character.



Luke Cage covered a lot of that ground, and it's just gonna take away from stuff like the Techno-Jungle, the Gorilla Cult and whatnot. Black Panther should be an international-esque character. An "urban US experience" is not needed in this flick. I get why they're doing it, but I ain't liking it.

I get what you're saying, but how many of these MCU movies have radically changed things from the comics? I doubt it would be that hard to somehow change that aspect of the character, it might even make him a better character, we don't know yet.

I don't think them being black means they have to identify with African Americans, but I do believe if they can find a way to make him more relatable to African Americans it could elevate the character if done right, again these movies are aimed at kids, they're family friendly films. If you can make Black Panther the Captain America or Superman for black kids then that would elevate the character in my opinion, and it'll obviously make Disney more bank. Luke Cage isn't targeted at families, and unfortunately that show wasn't very good, plus the Netflix shows are nowhere near as popular as the movies.

I always find these characters to be better when they're more grounded, more realistic, a little bit more relatable. That's why I like Jackman's Wolverine over comic Wolvey, Same for Bale's Batman, and Toby's Spider-Man. Doing the same for Black Panther would work.

 

[jye4ever]

Wakandans aren't savages. They have flying cars and the cure for cancer. They're just too racist and apathetic to care about anybody else, other blacks included. And once again, they're taking a fictional country and putting focus on the US once again. Would it have been so bad if T'Challa never interacted with the US before? Wakanda has better tech, teachers, everything. A core aspect of their culture is that they're 100% xenophobic.

So just like Japan.

 

[Victοr]

I get what you're saying, but how many of these MCU movies have radically changed things from the comics? I doubt it would be that hard to somehow change that aspect of the character, it might even make him a better character, we don't know yet.

Eh, for me, it's the same as having, say, Doctor Doom have his own company in the States. These characters are defined by their ethnicity, and having them be too close to the US makes them a bit... less.

I don't think them being black means they have to identify with African Americans, but I do believe if they can find a way to make him more relatable to African Americans it could elevate the character if done right, again these movies are aimed at kids, they're family friendly films. If you can make Black Panther the Captain America or Superman for black kids then that would elevate the character in my opinion, and it'll obviously make Disney more bank. Luke Cage isn't targeted at families, and unfortunately that show wasn't very good, plus the Netflix shows are nowhere near as popular as the movies.

Yeah, I know. Which is why I said that I get the why, it's just... it's a given they're gonna have him identify with them, when one of his biggest characteristics in the books is that he doesn't. Luke Cage called him many times out on that, but T'Challa doesn't see them as his "own" just because they have the same colour. His people are the Wakandans and that's it. He, and the rest of them, couldn't give two ****s about anybody else.

The BP books always brought an outsider to the game, one where ethnicity meant more than race. So in the US-dominated world of Marvel, it was interesting to see him clash with characters like Cage and Falcon, but get along better with the Illuminati, Doctor Voodoo and Moon Knight. Now it just seems as if this is gonna beput on the backburner, and instead of focusing on the country, they'll be focusing on the race. It's a fine line, really.

But anyway, I get it. It'd be cool for little kids to have the BP, Shuri, Killmonger, M'Baku and other characters to identify as. Considering white, US-based kids have heroes tailor made for each one of them, it only seems fair. But eh, I'd have prefferd a less vanilia approach.

I always find these characters to be better when they're more grounded, more realistic, a little bit more relatable. That's why I like Jackman's Wolverine over comic Wolvey, Same for Bale's Batman, and Toby's Spider-Man. Doing the same for Black Panther would work.

That's your filthy casual opinion though...

So just like Japan.

Kinda. Except they have a much bigger "hollier than thou" attitude.

 

[pturtle]

That's your filthy casual opinion though...
.

Us filthy casuals are the target audience unfortunately.

If Nolan can give us a Batman that was already trying to retire in his first movie, Disney's in-house writers can certainly find a way to make Black Panther have ties to the U.S.

 

[jye4ever]

Eh, for me, it's the same as having, say, Doctor Doom have his own company in the States. These characters are defined by their ethnicity, and having them be too close to the US makes them a bit... less.



Yeah, I know. Which is why I said that I get the why, it's just... it's a given they're gonna have him identify with them, when one of his biggest characteristics in the books is that he doesn't. Luke Cage called him many times out on that, but T'Challa doesn't see them as his "own" just because they have the same colour. His people are the Wakandans and that's it. He, and the rest of them, couldn't give two ****s about anybody else.

The BP books always brought an outsider to the game, one where ethnicity meant more than race. So in the US-dominated world of Marvel, it was interesting to see him clash with characters like Cage and Falcon, but get along better with the Illuminati, Doctor Voodoo and Moon Knight. Now it just seems as if this is gonna beput on the backburner, and instead of focusing on the country, they'll be focusing on the race. It's a fine line, really.

But anyway, I get it. It'd be cool for little kids to have the BP, Shuri, Killmonger, M'Baku and other characters to identify as. Considering white, US-based kids have heroes tailor made for each one of them, it only seems fair. But eh, I'd have prefferd a less vanilia approach.



That's your filthy casual opinion though...



Kinda. Except they have a much bigger "hollier than thou" attitude.

 

[Victοr]

Us filthy casuals are the target audience unfortunately.

If Nolan can give us a Batman that was already trying to retire in his first movie, Disney's in-house writers can certainly find a way to make Black Panther have ties to the U.S.

Casual***s ruined every- ahem, uh, sorry. I've, uh, been spending some time over at /co/...

 

[RIDDICK]

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

I didn't know any of that direction for this film. And I really hope it doesn't become an in-your-face "this is what its like being black in America" kind of thing. Sure, be relatable. Take a moment to make a statement. But don't be blackploitation. Panther is so much more than all that. He doesn't bother himself with American social flaws. Wakanda is better than all other countries so is the mindset of Panther and Wakandans, they are expecting to deal with lesser people when they go to other countries. I hated the comics where Panther was roaming around Harlem...it just seemed beneath him.

Whatever they do I hope they do it beautifully and not gimmicky. I don't want that Thor feeling where I loved the Asgardian bits but the earth parts made it feel like a kiddy soap opera.

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[Victοr]

I didn't know any of that direction for this film. And I really hope it doesn't become an in-your-face "this is what its like being black in America" kind of thing. Sure, be relatable. Take a moment to make a statement. But don't be blackploitation. Panther is so much more than all that. He doesn't bother himself with American social flaws. Wakanda is better than all other countries so is the mindset of Panther and Wakandans, they are expecting to deal with lesser people when they go to other countries. I hated the comics where Panther was roaming around Harlem...it just seemed beneath him.

Whatever they do I hope they do it beautifully and not gimmicky. I don't want that Thor feeling where I loved the Asgardian bits but the earth parts made it feel like a kiddy soap opera.

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[GodzillaSpawn]

Lol I'm just saying Wakandans believe that. That is their reality.

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[Victοr]

Lol I'm just saying Wakandans believe that. That is their reality.

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Yeah I know, I'm just messing with ya. The "problem" I always had with the BP books was that T'Challa was great, the environment was beautiful, and they had lots to play with, but the majority of Wakandans were self-righteous pricks and, the stories never utilized the concept to its full effect. Priest's vol remains the best, but there's still untapped material.

Just how I wish Batman would go back to his occult "roots" at some point. I've had my fill of crazy scientists. It's why I love Morrison's run, even though most hate it. I get why, but still, I really enjoy it.

PS: Latveria Uber Alles

Spoiler:

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

Yeah I know, I'm just messing with ya. [emoji38] The "problem" I always had with the BP books was that T'Challa was great, the environment was beautiful, and they had lots to play with, but the majority of Wakandans were self-righteous pricks and, the stories never utilized the concept to its full effect. Priest's vol remains the best, but there's still untapped material.

Just how I wish Batman would go back to his occult "roots" at some point. I've had my fill of crazy scientists. It's why I love Morrison's run, even though most hate it. I get why, but still, I really enjoy it.

PS: Latveria Uber Alles

Spoiler:

You're right. So much arrogance in all the books. And it becomes more and more pretentious as you read along.

There are some things the mcu does that I prefer over the comics, and I'm hoping there is more to the population of Wakanda itself. I do have a concern that all the major BP villains are in this movie though.

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[Victοr]

You're right. So much arrogance in all the books. And it becomes more and more pretentious as you read along.

There are some things the mcu does that I prefer over the comics, and I'm hoping there is more to the population of Wakanda itself. I do have a concern that all the major BP villains are in this movie though.

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Yeah, especially Post-Hudlin's run they've been insufferable. The current book is only fit for a dumpster fire though, so I gess BP stopped being good when Priest left. The Liss run was enjoyable though.

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

Yeah, especially Post-Hudlin's run they've been insufferable. The current book is only fit for a dumpster fire though, so I gess BP stopped being good when Priest left. The Liss run was enjoyable though.

Really? I've heard so much about the writing and impressive art.

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[Sweet Rabbit]

Yeah, especially Post-Hudlin's run they've been insufferable. The current book is only fit for a dumpster fire though, so I gess BP stopped being good when Priest left. The Liss run was enjoyable though.

The Priest run was amazeballs

 

[Victοr]

Really? I've heard so much about the writing and impressive art.

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The SJW Normies like it 'cause a "woke brotha" is writting it, and it launched sortly after CW hit the cinema. The basic story is that T'Challa is an awful King, Wakanda has been opressing women for centuries, there are rape camps all over, and two lesbian lovers launch a revolution. Amidst all that, T'Challa gets his ass handed to him by OCs and Zeke Stane in a business suit. He also needs the help of Marvel's Top Black Heroes (TM) to save his country. That now hates him, for some reason. Oh, and those two lesbians use sticks and somehow manage to take out advanced aircrafts, and with their army of abused women win against the Hatut Zerate.

TL;DR: Wakanda rapes women, T'Challa is an idiot who lets them get raped, Luke Cage & Misty Knight get the Synergy treatment, and there are two lesbians who are essentially the stars of the book.

Anyone who praises this POS is either a Normie, a SJW who faps to 789 genders, or a T'Challa hater who's gonna use the low-end feats on Battle Threads. I've seen MFs say this is Marvel's Watchmen, and that Coates is better than Moore and I just...

The Priest run was amazeballs

And he's currently doing the same for Deathstroke. Seriously, that book is a main title that reads like a "no restrictions" Image book. It's easily one of my faves.