Flexibility in Self-Identity? Help settle a debate.

[ShadowX81]

One thing that I want to stress that I guess I didn't in my OP was that im not making any improvements in my life that I didn't already want to previously. The girl is simply the end motivation to stop being lazy about it.
I know it sounds stupid, but honestly what inspired this was the movie "Limitless". It made me curious as to weather I could transform into a better version of myself over time to thhe point where I could be percieved differently.

You talked about this for two hours? No wonder you're single.

Haha. Fair enough.

But you know how it is when you engage in philisophical debate. You bring up hypothetical scenarios, sometimes go on tangents, ect. For awhile it became a debate about what exactly a defines who a person is. Just a current state of being, or is it also the desires over what the next state is? I should also probably add that we were having a few beers at the time.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Don't change who you are

 

[Blackthornone]

One thing that I want to stress that I guess I didn't in my OP was that im not making any improvements in my life that I didn't already want to previously. The girl is simply the end motivation to stop being lazy about it.
I know it sounds stupid, but honestly what inspired this was the movie "Limitless". It made me curious as to weather I could transform into a better verssion of myself over time to thhe point where I could be percieved differently.



Haha. Fair enough.

But you know how it is when you engage in philisophical debate. You bring up hypothetical scenarios, sometimes go on tangents, ect. For awhile it became a debate about what exactly a defines who a person is. Just a current state of being, or is it also the desires over what the next state is? I should also probably add that we were having a few beers at the time.

If she is inspiring you to do what you have always wanted to do, then that is very good.

 

[ShadowX81]

I like the question outside of the dating context. How much do people abuse themselves to get a job, or feel like they're a good citizen, etc? Self-immolation for reward is a fascinating disorder.

Exactly. Thats the main reason I decided to post it. I just couldn't stop thinking about how the different contexts for this concept are percieved differently. For example if in my OP I stated that I was doing all of this to get a promotion at work, people would probably tell me that im on the right track and wish me luck. But because im doing it for a girl I should settle for who I am now and hope good things happen?

Where is the line where self-improvement ends and changing yourself begins? Questions like this are the stuff that makes it hard for me to sleep.

 

[occulum]

stop thinking and start doing .....

 

[pixletwin]

Be all that you can be.

 

[devilof76]

If every person's consciousness truly was a blank slate from birth, then their entire life and all of their choices would be predetermined by their bodies and the environment that their bodies were in, and those would be determined by the bodies and the environments...

Are you saying that for a volitional consciousness to have genuine free will, it needs to have its actions pre-determined by some innate tendency to make certain choices, which is not--in any meaningful way--in its control?

Or are you denying the existence of free will in humans completely (blank slate or not)? I can't tell if you're trying to have it both ways, or if you're a hook, line and sinker determinist.

Where is the line where self-improvement ends and changing yourself begins? Questions like this are the stuff that makes it hard for me to sleep.

Self-improvement is a form of changing yourself.

 

[karamazov80]

I'm not reading through this entire thread, so very possible I'm being redundant, BUT. . .in my opinion, the nature of "self" and identity is always changing, but most of it is pretty much in place by the time you are a few years old. Incremental change can and will be made though, mostly affected by major events (crises, major life changes). Some folks change more to suit their environment, and that works for some. Some try to have more "integrity," and to stick to what they think is best given their own beliefs about life.

So really, there isn't a clear-cut answer here. Identity is a mixture of your inherent genetic dispositions, your upbringing, your various experiences, your environment, and your own independent thoughts/motivations/beliefs/etc. I was never interested in adapting too much to fit in with others, but there are pros and definite cons to that approach.

Having said all that, with women, in my experience, if it seems like you're trying to hard, they can tell, and it's not gonna work. Good luck!

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Change is harder for some than for others.

I believe change requires support or simply time.

I used to live on fizzy drinks and hated thef taste of water. Now i only drink water as i want to be healthier but it was more the change of time & maturity that fascilitated this.

Same with eating healthy and more natural food. Years ago i couldn't now i do.

Other things like being more social can require constant support. A wingman to aid and encourage oneself, otherwise it can be near impossible.

If she is inspiring you to do what you have always wanted to do, then that is very good.

The important thing is not to fall into old habits if it doesn't work out with her.

 

[ShadowX81]

Overall, my philosophy on life can be summed up with the phrases "Everything worth having is worth working for", and "The second you stop growing is the second you stop living".

Kicking back and waiting for good stuff to happen on its own has never seemed like a great plan to me.

 

[Adrosi]

Put ourselves first and there will be no reason to try and improve anything other than the person we were yesterday.

Otherwise, we're just chasing something that we will never have and likely working way too hard for...


Nothing that we want is upstream.

 

[Batty]

Some of you sound like you put too much thought into things instead of actually doing. You can talk and philosophize all day, but if you don't actual do something, what's the point?

I think Yoda said something along those lines.

 

[King Darkness]

He said "**** or get off the pot"

 

[karamazov80]

Some of you sound like you put too much thought into things instead of actually doing. You can talk and philosophize all day, but if you don't actual do something, what's the point?

Life of the mind, baby!

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

I've seen news "stories" of women who have tons of surgeries to look like Barbie or an Anime doll.

Almost no self identity just a desire to be someone completely different. That's a disorder imo

 

[Devil_666]

What do you guys think?

Here's the problem (and remember this is strictly based on what you wrote):

You have two conflicting ideas intermingled in your point. On the one hand you're talking about self-improvement which is always a good thing but on the other hand you're talking about doing it in the hopes of pleasing another person, which is bad.

That might be why your buddy can't agree with you.

Here's the difference:

"I wanna improve myself (physically, mentally, etc.) because it'll be good for me!"

vs.

"I wanna improve myself (physically, mentally, etc.) because I think this person/other people will like me more and it'll be good for me too!"

Kinda the same thing right? But with one small difference: The motivation behind it, which can drastically change how people view an action. Most people would not disagree or find fault with the first statement above. But most would with the second one. And like I said, the only difference is the motivation.

Think of it like this, if you removed that chick from the equation would you still be thinking about all that self-improvement at this point in time? Be honest.

 

[Frank]

You'd be better off being so confident in yourself that she can't help but be swayed by your presence. Right from the get-go you are missing the first rule: Good women love confident men.

So, be confident and proud of who you are and NEVER grovel or turn yourself into knots and jump through hoops just to maybe have a chance at pleasing someone. Women are fined tuned to that behavior because that's a tendency they have when it comes to their men so when a guy does it, they're not likely to be impressed. I mean it might make do for a fine gimp but a man it does not make.

 

[Boba Ben]

Here's a terrible song to help you see the way:

[ame]https://youtu.be/vSdbQLXpmPQ[/ame]

 

[karamazov80]

Here's the problem (and remember this is strictly based on what you wrote):

You have two conflicting ideas intermingled in your point. On the one hand you're talking about self-improvement which is always a good thing but on the other hand you're talking about doing it in the hopes of pleasing another person, which is bad.

That might be why your buddy can't agree with you.

Here's the difference:

"I wanna improve myself (physically, mentally, etc.) because it'll be good for me!"

vs.

"I wanna improve myself (physically, mentally, etc.) because I think this person/other people will like me more and it'll be good for me too!"

Kinda the same thing right? But with one small difference: The motivation behind it, which can drastically change how people view an action. Most people would not disagree or find fault with the first statement above. But most would with the second one. And like I said, the only difference is the motivation.

Think of it like this, if you removed that chick from the equation would you still be thinking about all that self-improvement at this point in time? Be honest.

But this is tricky. Almost anything anyone can do to improve themselves (health, spirituality, looks, professional success, artistic success) is something that others you interact with will, presumably, like you more for doing. I doubt that most people really try to "improve" themselves without considering, in some measure, the impact it will have on others, be it friends, family, potential sexual partners, bosses, peers, society broadly defined, etc. I'm sure there are exceptions--people who just want to feel better for example (though that would affect how others treat them as well), or folks who create art but just hoard it in their attic where no one will ever see. But I think they are exceptions. Humans are social creatures. We want others to like us, and that's a strong motivating force. Sometimes a subconscious one.

 

[batfan08]

I think of self-improvement like this. To paraphrase Devil, "I wanna improve myself (physically, mentally, etc.) because it'll be good for me, and because, afterwards, good things will follow." Always remember, "first, you get the money, den, you get da powah, den, you get da women." At the end of the day, though, Tony Montana was talking about getting the money and the power for yourself, not the women; they just followed.