Doctor Who - Spoilers!

[ProgMatinee]

Doctor Who fans continue to be overscrutinizers as ever.

Loving the season thus far.

 

[Oxnard Montalvo]

I really enjoyed the new alien races around the small city, the FX department did really well with the designs and i have seen it in reviews likened to the Star wars cantina but i felt it was more akin to Hellboy II in the underground market .

I wonder how many we will see again in future episodes? they must keep all the costumes in storage.

Would have been nice to have had a background cameo from an Alpha Centaurian or other familiar species... Otrher wise the ep on a whole... Some fantastic performances, Love the Hawkman Rocket Cycle/Scooty puff Jr. (Getting a definite SJS vibe from Clara... Definately a good thing!) but the whole episode was a little ...empty somehow.

Full of sound and fury......Signifying nothing.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Wow, are you guys looking for the meaning of life from a Doctor Who episode or something?

I thought the latest episode was entertaining, suspensful, beautiful in sound and sight, and fairly significant as far as Clara's journey goes.

She just gave up the most precious item she had of herself to 1)save a bunch of aliens she didn't know and 2)"move on" from her past so she can now travel with the Doctor.

Not sure how that's "empty".

 

[JonWes]

It's called having a different opinion. ::shrug::

It's not the end of the world if other's think differently from you. You don't have to put them down suggesting they are being over critical. I'm sure I'll love the next episode. Or the next. I don't expect to love every episode, though. I love Doctor Who. Have since I was 8. Still do. The Moffat/Smith era has been one of my favorites in a lot of ways (i'd rank Smith as one of my favorite Doctors now for sure) but they've had their share of episodes that just don't quite gel. Some I still enjoy (I quite like The Beast Below!) and some I can find good things in but overall find sort of dull (Victory of the Daleks, for instance) and I'd put the last couple episodes in the latter camp.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Is calling someone overly critical "putting them down"? I'm not calling them idiots or anything.

I find it important to have our opinions tested if they seem unsound to someone else.

I pointed out a pretty important milestone in a particular character's developement to support my position that the episode wasn't "empty".

 

[ProgMatinee]

Also not empty is the progression of either Smith's acting or his characterization of the Doctor because he is showing more emotional range and depth than before, IMO Its as if he partially regenerated and gotten a tweek to his personality (along with the TARDIS and his wardrobe.) I like it.

 

[JonWes]

Is calling someone overly critical "putting them down"? I'm not calling them idiots or anything.

Oh, I'm sorry did you mean they were overly critical in a good way?
I didn't say you were calling them names or anything, but you were still being dismissive, which to me is still putting someone down.

I find it important to have our opinions tested if they seem unsound to someone else.

I pointed out a pretty important milestone in a particular character's developement to support my position that the episode wasn't "empty".

I'm sure the poster who said that can fully support the statement, but as this is one of the things I just didn't think worked as well as it should of, so I'll tell you my thoughts. I really like Clara. She could be incredibly annoying, but Jenna-Lousie Coleman really succeeds in making her work and not seeming like she's trying to hard. She seems to have a natural fire and quirk that works well. But we barely know Clara, still.

To me, the final scene didn't work for two reasons.

1. They just introduced the leaf this episode. I think it would have been more effective emotionally if her book was the object she sacrificed as it had been introduced earlier. You could somehow tie the book together with her parents and still make it work. I just think it would have had more emotional heft. JLC played the hell out of that scene, but I just didn't feel that emotionally attached to her yet.

2. The leaf might have worked, except it felt a bit anticlimactic after the Doctor's big scene. I mean, Smith wrung every bit out of that speech he could. It was very nicely done, and only made slightly less spectacular by the fact that the Doctor is prone to speeches of this sort since the 2005 relaunch. But still, quite powerful. So when Clara hops in and says "And I've got my leaf too!" it just ends up paling a bit in comparison, to me, even though the sentiment of it is quite powerful.

I appreciated a lot of the philosophy and the heart of this episode. And the aliens. And the design. But I think some of the story choices weakened it. It's nowhere near the bottom of the heap like Fear Her. I think there's much more to enjoy on repeat viewings, here. But there's this nagging sense that it could have been just a bit better with a tweak here or there. Or even coming a bit later in the series, though I know that this is supposed to develop Clara's character so putting it earlier makes more sense from that standpoint.

 

[pixletwin]

They introduced the leaf in TBoSJ if I recall.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I felt the leaf was an adequate sacrifice because it represented what Clara called her "page 1", if I remember the line correctly.

It also represents her page 1 with the Doctor. So there's a cool symmetry there for me.

I'm supposing the combination of the Doctor's memories with the leafs "infinite" memories destroyed the Grandfather...but I could be wrong. For me it didn't really trump the Doctor's speech but rather was a nice follow up to show that the Doctor and Clara's collaboration is powerful.

I guess I also feel that the book itself might hold more to it than we know so far. I noticed some of her "ages" in it were crossed out, which seemed odd to me. Also a lot of blank pages...hmm.

I think this sacrifice was important early on to get her on board, but also looking back it could have made for a pretty epic climax to her character too.

 

[JonWes]

They introduced the leaf in TBoSJ if I recall.

Did they? I guess by introduce I meant more than just show it. Maybe explain the significance? But there was no time in Bells because they had enough other stuff to do! LOL.

I felt the leaf was an adequate sacrifice because it represented what Clara called her "page 1", if I remember the line correctly.

It also represents her page 1 with the Doctor. So there's a cool symmetry there for me.

I'm supposing the combination of the Doctor's memories with the leafs "infinite" memories destroyed the Grandfather...but I could be wrong. For me it didn't really trump the Doctor's speech but rather was a nice follow up to show that the Doctor and Clara's collaboration is powerful.

I guess I also feel that the book itself might hold more to it than we know so far. I noticed some of her "ages" in it were crossed out, which seemed odd to me. Also a lot of blank pages...hmm.

I think this sacrifice was important early on to get her on board, but also looking back it could have made for a pretty epic climax to her character too.

I definitely think it was the combination of the Doctor and Clara. I don't think Clara's leaf alone would have done it. The Doctor said the sun thing was already full. I think Clara's leaf was just the tipping point.

Yeah, I do think the book will go on to play some other role in all of this. It's too conspicuous not too. I get what they were going for. And maybe the way they did it wasn't even bad. But for whatever reason it just didn't have the punch I thought it needed.

 

[pixletwin]

Did they? I guess by introduce I meant more than just show it. Maybe explain the significance? But there was no time in Bells because they had enough other stuff to do! LOL.

Well she did hint at it's significance when she told the Doctor it was Chapter 1 of her life. Seeing as that appears to be this season's story arc, seemed pretty significant.

 

[JonWes]

I thought she was talking about the whole book in that instance, I guess.

 

[N2k-swb]

He saw the leaf in her book during 'Bells', while she was recovering from the Spoon Head attack. The Doctor then proceeded to smell and lick it That seems to be his way of investigation, licking things.

While not on this forum, but another few i visit and especially one, the supposed 'fandom' is pretty wretched and one track minded. Reviews of any new episode are met usually with over whelming negativity towards Moffat and Smith especially and many seem stuck in the belief that David Tennant and RTD are the Who saviors and should return to save the day or BBC cancel teh show.

I don't think i could take another RTD reign, or another run of Ten. While i enjoyed their time mostly, Smith to me is The Doctor and i hope he stays a while longer.

Also i don't really agree with this criticism i have seen elsewhere about the show being overly complicated, while some arcs haven't paid off, i still prefer the Moffs take over the Bad Wolf style arc.

 

[JonWes]

If you're talking about GB, I don't even go into the episode forums there any more other than to vote in the main episode poll and see what other people think. The thing is, though a lot of the comments can be pretty blah, there's a lot of positives too. In fact, the typical episode in the episode polls almost always rates 8 or above (on a 10 point scale) with the majority of fans. People can nitpick, but really most Doctor Who fans are quite easy on the show. So, whatever you see comment-wise, most people ARE enjoying it.

The ratings support that, too. Actually, Rings of Akhaten is an outlier in that way. As I said nearly every episode has the biggest concentration around "8" on the scale, and then it's just a matter of it shifting more towards 10 for the best received episodes and shifting more towards 7 for slightly less well received ones. Rings was the most mixed reaction I've ever seen on the forum poll. It has almost equal numbers from 1 to 10!

I have never been on a forum that has overwhelming negativity towards Smith though. I've seen almost universal praise, to be honest. Moffat is different. There does seem to be a camp that just hates him. But there was a camp that just hates RTD. I don't take those people seriously and tune them out. Both had their faults, but both have been pretty spectacular for what they did in my book, and I enjoy that their "eras" have had a different feel. I will say, I think after the 50th year I wouldn't mind someone else take over the show with Smith still at the helm (I want him to be the Doctor for at least 5 years! I'd take 7! Or 8! Let's beat Tom's record! ) and I say that only because there is a part of me that think Moffat might be a bit limited in his own personal bag of tricks and that might be wearing a bit thin. But he's provided some of my absolute favorite stories and elements in the series, and I'm so glad he is the show runner now.

 

[N2k-swb]

Actually i registered with GB but never actually stuck around to see what it was like, i find the atmosphere here to be a decent place for sensible discussions.

Theres a general 'news' site i shall name, 'Smigital Pie'... I read their reviews on the episodes after, just to gauge opinion and some of the stuff people comment is pretty unreal.

You are totally right, there are absolutley millions of supporters, i wasnt knocking anything or anyone just commenting on how close to nasty some can get.

I would love to see Smith go at it for that amount of time, but to be honest i think he might see out 2014 and leave before Christmas.

I dont have any gripes with the show in general or any of the crew involved, sure a few episodes now and then dont live up to the hype but to be months away from a 50th anniversary special just goes to show how brilliant this show was and very much still is.

 

[JonWes]

Oh yeah, there are people who get downright nasty. It happens on GB. It seems like it happens on a lot of forums for a lot of different properties. I can't really wrap my head around spending a lot of time talking about something I was disliking that much! There are lots of things I dislike but I don't go to forums to talk about them. And if a show loses my interest, I stop talking about it. LOL. Who knows, though. I am glad there is nice discussion here about Who, though.

 

[DarthTrafford]

10th & 11th in Trafalgar Square for the filming of 50th Anniversary!
:::wink wink wink:::

 

[pixletwin]

Awesome!

 

[DarthTrafford]

Awesome!

Had to post it even though it's fake.
It's 2 cosplayers in the same area where they are filming the episode.
https://mh10thdoc.tumblr.com/post/47550422686/lisahpg-starparticles-marlasomething

 

[pixletwin]

haha It fooled me!